Help me cost up my new build (300sq m)

[Bitpipe]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

Thanks, hadn't really clocked that a ground survey would be required. We did have a topographic survey done though that was more for the architects' benefit in the end.

 

Yep, topo is just the 'lay of the land' GI is 'what lies beneath'. You can go onto the British gelogocial survey (BGS) and look for nearby boreholes. However a decent SE will always want some kind of report to design foundations.

 

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

 

Yeah, one of the things that led them to discourage from engaging on as full PM/build activities is that they're physically in another part of the country. Any visits on site from them would incur huge travel charges (either on the train or per mile), so not really a cost effective option.

 

I do plan on getting a QS spreadsheet so that I have some idea of what to expect and can use that to talk to builders and not appear totally naive. So far, I have estimators online and plan to use the paid Travis Perkins option as well. Would be great if you could share yours so I can use as another reference point?

 

 

Would not make much sense as it's customised to our build dimensions and now out of date. Best to get a QS to do one - note that cheap online estimators will want to work off detailed drawings which you will not have yet.

 

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

Pretty much what I had in mind. The first company I spoke to (Dan-Wood) offered a complete turnkey service with very competitive prices and were zero VAT rated, which is what attracted me to them in the first place. After a few discussions, it became clear that we'd be tied into their system and architects and they weren't too keen on a bespoke design so I left it there.

 

There are plenty more out there. All will be zero rated for VAT. If a supplier charges you VAT you can't get it back (unless they refund it) aside from materials bought by you.

 

When you get quotes you'll get practiced at asking for zero rating and not taking no for an answer. Your PP will be the proof they need that it's all legit.

 

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

A single supplier that handles the slab and then getting the shell up sounds like a good idea, and like you said - they'll be zero rated for VAT. Will reach out to MBC and start my Google Fu!

 

 

I assume you retain all the VAT invoices and they have to be in your name to do this, but then its all reclaimable once the BC certificate is issued at the end?

 

 

Just for materials you buy which should be minimal, but yes - you keep all the VAT invoices and do a reclaim once at the end at completion. 

 

[Temp]

4 hours ago, IanR said:

As an observation, do you really need a fireplace (and chimney)? The chimney position is going to put shade on the roof where PV would go.

 

or mirror the whole house so chimney is on the north side?

 

[nod]

54 minutes ago, Indy said:

Thanks, that's good to know but the situation is quite different to us where I won't have the knowledge or skill to do this on my own. I plan to give most things a go and help out where I can, though do realise the extent of my abilities!

Like others I think the end figure is way out 

Sure builders are very busy 

But if you have the funds in place 

A self build from a builders point of view is very low risk and an attractive proposition for many building companies 

Things is a cash flow problem within Tge building industry at The moment 

So shop around 

[Temp]

6 hours ago, Indy said:

 

Floorplans etc are all here

https://ibb.co/H4TzPj7
https://ibb.co/Dp2jj6P
https://ibb.co/JcR6NB3
https://ibb.co/FXk5tvy

 

I think its a more complex design than it appears..

 

The large open plan living/kitchen area means large spans for the first floor (9.5m). Not helped by the large patio door/window in the gable end and balcony above.  

 

The room-in-the roof design means the roof can't use simple trusses. Nor can you easily use a structural ridge beam because there is nothing for the western end to bear on (windows in gable wall). The flat roof dormer and roof light (snug and stairs) also complicate.

 

At the front there might be an issue with the amount of water flowing onto the roof of the porch from three roof pitches.  

 

As my SE said.. You can do anything with a bit of steel so I think its all solvable but this is the sort of thing that can add to the cost.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Temp

[nod]

8 minutes ago, Temp said:

 

I think its a more complex design than it appears..

 

The large open plan living/kitchen area means large spans for the first floor (9.5m). Not helped by the large patio door/window in the gable end and balcony above.  

 

The room-in-the roof design means the roof can't use simple trusses. Nor can you easily use a structural ridge beam because there is nothing for the western end to bear on (windows in gable wall). The flat roof dormer and roof light (snug and stairs) also complicate.

 

At the front there might be an issue with the amount of water flowing onto the roof of the porch from three roof pitches.  

 

As my SE said.. You can do anything with a bit of steel so I think its all solvable but this is the sort of thing that can add to the cost.

 

 

That’s exactly what I’ve got rid of 

Our SE said we would need an elaborate steel frame to support the roofs £££££££

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, Temp said:

a more complex design than it appears..

Yes, cost is secondary to bling, but if that is what is wanted it isn't too tricky.

Beware: steel beams are the answer, but I have found that timber frame companies simply ignore them, but say so.

 

So the issues are costing £5k. 

Delete the pretend chimney and half way there.

 

I couldn't read it on the drawing but are the big windows all three sliding? or just the central one. That costs a lot but not within a million pound project.

 

[saveasteading]

2 minutes ago, nod said:

elaborate steel frame to support the roofs

Perhaps....but this doesn't look too bad at first sight. There are lots of cross walls to pick up the roof.

[epsilonGreedy]

2 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

what is the GDV of the site when finished ?

 

 

Ok I will bite, have been here 4 years now and that is a new one on me. Guestimated Determined Value?

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

get rid of fake chimney

Yes.

Seems to me, from what I have observed on here, that most of the expense is inside i.e. electrical, plumbing, woodwork. And people spend really stupid money in kitchens and bathrooms.

Regarding the 6m wide sliding windows with thin frames to get a better view. Put the chair a foot closer to them.

(Was watching a TV show, 'retire to the sun with other arseholes, just like yourselves' or something. People where looking at views from the balconies. Spectacular they were. Except the wall was 4 foot high and you would see nothing when sat down.

[James94]

9 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

Ok I will bite, have been here 4 years now and that is a new one on me. Guestimated Determined Value?

Gross development value

[epsilonGreedy]

18 minutes ago, James94 said:

Gross development value

 

 

Thanks.

 

What does it mean? A quick Google suggests it is the estimated final market value on completion.

[nod]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Perhaps....but this doesn't look too bad at first sight. There are lots of cross walls to pick up the roof.

I replaced these two triangles and replaced with masonry 

1o k saving on steel alone 

[saveasteading]

21 minutes ago, James94 said:

Gross development value

= selling price. Presumably not exactly that or we wouldn't have the acronym.

 

32 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

6m wide sliding windows with thin frames to get a better view.

I am expecting there to be  a  stunning view of the Surrey countryside:  Rolling hills,  oak woodlands. golf courses and private schools.

in which case it will be worth the cost.

[Indy]

23 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I am expecting there to be  a  stunning view of the Surrey countryside:  Rolling hills,  oak woodlands. golf courses and private schools.

in which case it will be worth the cost.

 

Not quite rolling hills or open fields but a 120ft garden, which is going to be a huge change from where we are currently (Zone 3 London) with a postage stamp sized garden that backs on to 3 others! It is much quieter though, and we have greenbelt land at the front (which hopefully means no development overlooking ours).

 

The other bits - all within 5 to 10m walking distance.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Indy

[Zak S]

Hi. Have you tried 

 

https://www.estimators-online.com/pricelist#.YenEgLfLedN

 

I have been told they charge around £135.00 and will cost up the plans though I have not tried. I totally disagree with 3500 per sqm. Someone would try to milk it at that price fairly easily. There are people who have built their houses for 1200-1500. In west midlands I had a quote for a builder and he is turn key builder. He quoted 1600 -1700. Surely London cant be that more expensive. I would suggest trying the above link or QS but please note that QS has some fat built into it just incase.

[matthyde83]

I’ve just put mine into estimators online for £192.50.  I’ll let you know when I get it… (Surrey)

[Zak S]

1 hour ago, matthyde83 said:

I’ve just put mine into estimators online for £192.50.  I’ll let you know when I get it… (Surrey)

Great thanks. Did you get a quote from QS?

[matthyde83]

10 hours ago, Zak S said:

Great thanks. Did you get a quote from QS?

 

Haven't engaged a QS yet although we're in the midst of looking at self build mortgage and they are talking about requiring one.  I have put it through Jewson Build Aviator as I have a self build account with them.  They came back at £430k.

[Zak S]

23 minutes ago, matthyde83 said:

 

Haven't engaged a QS yet although we're in the midst of looking at self build mortgage and they are talking about requiring one.  I have put it through Jewson Build Aviator as I have a self build account with them.  They came back at £430k.

Thanks. Can i please ask the sqm if the property?

[matthyde83]

Just now, Zak S said:

Thanks. Can i please ask the sqm if the property?

 

Sorry thought I'd said.  268m2.  So we're quite similar.  We're demolishing a bungalow nd replacing with 5 bed detached.

 

 

52A1 H.pdf 53A1 F.pdf

[Zak S]

21 minutes ago, matthyde83 said:

 

Sorry thought I'd said.  268m2.  So we're quite similar.  We're demolishing a bungalow nd replacing with 5 bed detached.

 

 

52A1 H.pdf 349.06 kB · 4 downloads 53A1 F.pdf 326.68 kB · 5 downloads

Thanks. Nice plan. Though I have been noting comments on another thread about balconies. They would make sense if you have great views to enjoy (base on Escape to the country show -shropshire episode ). Jewson costing seems quite reasonable. I am not sure if this would be achievable via turn key builder in Surrey. Are you project managing yourself or appoint one builder to oversee all?

 

Yes, my own project will be similar though my plot could allow me 21m width. I will need to send brief to the architect yet so at early stage compared to yours.

[matthyde83]

49 minutes ago, Zak S said:

Thanks. Nice plan. Though I have been noting comments on another thread about balconies. They would make sense if you have great views to enjoy (base on Escape to the country show -shropshire episode ). Jewson costing seems quite reasonable. I am not sure if this would be achievable via turn key builder in Surrey. Are you project managing yourself or appoint one builder to oversee all?

 

Yes, my own project will be similar though my plot could allow me 21m width. I will need to send brief to the architect yet so at early stage compared to yours.

 

Yup - we have some views ish but we also have a nicely landscaped garden that I've put blood sweat and tears into over the past 2 years to look down upon (yes we did do this first), plus the design of the roof overhanging the balcony also narrows the view to where we want it and not full vistas if you see what I mean?!

 

It wouldn't be a turnkey approach no.  I have an open book policy with my builder, I'm helping do a lot of the ordering and in return he's charging me just 5% on materials - which also helps cashflow as I save the 20% VAT.  Then he's working on a day rate, rates pre agreed for trades.  That's to get us up to wind and water tight then I'm taking over with subbies from there.

 

We're 3.5 years in.  Moving out of the bungalow in 2 weeks!

[Indy]

On 19/01/2022 at 16:56, Faz said:

My 3,000 sq ft build is nearly done (carpets in a weeks time) and has cost £110 psf. I am the site manager, handyman, labourer and forkie mind. Fairly high spec - MVHR, timber floors throughout on gf, ali windows etc etc etc.

 

With the build cost inflation that has taken place this year I would have thought that this cost would be +30 - 40% starting now. Screed - +100%, anything timber - +70 - 100%, Steel - don't know but a massive %, internal doors - +50%, timber flooring - +100% to name a few....

 

Spec wise, we're aiming for something similar. ASHP, MVHR, Wet UFH throughout, Wood/LVT floors throughout including first floor (need something hard wearing with kids and dogs), Lots of glazing, decent quality touchpoints like stairs, doors, switches etc. 

 

Cost wise - £110 psf seems unachievable for me as I can't really do any of the trades myself. I am planning to act as the PM and general handyman/labourer, and maybe the decorator towards the end. Plan to buy a good spray paint setup, coat the entire house in white and move in, and then decorate in other colours over time. 

[Faz]

For flooring I went for this stuff - Series Woods Professional 12mm Laminate Flooring Smoked Oak (ukflooringdirect.co.uk)  Used it in my last scheme as well and had no issues with defects.

 

Hard as nails - we got a sample and tried to scratch it with a stone - nothing. Then a key - faint mark that went when you rubbed over it. Ended up putting it face down on the road and running over it twice with a range rover. Wiped it down and it probably would still have passed the defects threshold (visible defect from 1.5m away).  Bought most for mine at £6 per sq. m.  Now £12/m - grrr.....

 

Stuck it in the spec plots as well - 4 bedroom detached house for sale in Uggmere Court Road, Ramsey Heights, PE26 (rightmove.co.uk)

 

 

[LnP]

On 21/01/2022 at 10:41, matthyde83 said:

Then he's working on a day rate, rates pre agreed for trades.  That's to get us up to wind and water tight then I'm taking over with subbies from there.

Interesting that you're going for day rates rather than priced work. Am I right in thinking that's unusual? What do you think are the pros and cons of day rates vs priced work?