Help me cost up my new build (300sq m)

[Indy]

22 minutes ago, SBMS said:

We're just about to start construction on our self build. It's main builder led so am not doing anything ourselves. If anyone is after any prices for things (roofs, joinery, ASHP, windows, doors, aluminium sliders, garage etc) let me know as I found pricing up one of the hardest things when starting out.  I ended up being miles out!  Build is in Lancashire, traditional brick and block, blown insulation, traditional roof.

 

I will take you up on that offer for pricing, but have you managed to work out a cost / sq metre using the main builder route?

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

I found pricing up one of the hardest things when starting out. 

Pity the professional estimator, who does it all day, every day, and gets criticised for winning a job too cheap, or for losing the work. 

I was that man.

[SBMS]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

 

I will take you up on that offer for pricing, but have you managed to work out a cost / sq metre using the main builder route?

Yes - although quick question for the forum.  When calculating cost / sq meter, do people tend to do it off usable internal sq meterage? Or total square meterage?

[SBMS]

And is the garage included?

[SBMS]

And do you include cost of electricity/BT connection?

Edited March 8, 2022 by SBMS

[Indy]

2 hours ago, SBMS said:

Yes - although quick question for the forum.  When calculating cost / sq meter, do people tend to do it off usable internal sq meterage? Or total square meterage?

I'm sure someone more experienced will come along shortly to correct me but I would base it off the total area, not just internal. A large chunk of the budget is going towards creating the shell as I see it.

 

As for other costs, the norm is to include everything including utilities - apart from professional services (architects, surveys, planning etc)

[SBMS]

@IndySo below are the prices per sqm and sqf as per our quote and what we are working to.  I've worked out the total size of the house floors (walls included) which is the gross external, then the gross internal (everything except the external walls, so these includes studwork and eaves voids on 2nd floor) then our final actual usable internal floor space (which excludes studwork and eaves storage on 2nd floor):

 

Sqm	Gross External	Gross Internal	Usable internal Area
Total size (sqm)	319	279	262
Total size (sqf)	3433.716	3003.156	2820.168
Total build cost (per sqm)	£1,337.93	£1,529.75	£1,629.01
Total build cost (per sqf)	£124.30	£142.12	£151.34

[saveasteading]

17 hours ago, SBMS said:

calculating cost / sq mete

 

To expand on SBMS message.

 

Surveyors use GEA and GIA.

GIA is the usable space inside so it doesn't matter how thick the external walls are. However it includes all internal walls (ie they are not deducted.) The reason is that people buy, but especially rent, by the m2. (But surveyors being surveyors, it is usually still in ft2 because it sounds more, and the rent sounds less. 10.76 is forever at hand for conversion in discussion)

 

GEA is the actual building area from outside of walls. It ignores overhangs. This is what builders use, and is more realistic for build cost.

 

By the way, beware scaffolders' cost per m2 face of scaffolding. They tend to measure the ' as built' scaffolding from corner to corner, so the corners are included twice.

Edited March 9, 2022 by saveasteading

[Zak S]

3 hours ago, SBMS said:

@IndySo below are the prices per sqm and sqf as per our quote and what we are working to.  I've worked out the total size of the house floors (walls included) which is the gross external, then the gross internal (everything except the external walls, so these includes studwork and eaves voids on 2nd floor) then our final actual usable internal floor space (which excludes studwork and eaves storage on 2nd floor):

 

 

Sqm	Gross External	Gross Internal	Usable internal Area
Total size (sqm)	319	279	262
Total size (sqf)	3433.716	3003.156	2820.168
Total build cost (per sqm)	£1,337.93	£1,529.75	£1,629.01
Total build cost (per sqf)	£124.30	£142.12	£151.34

Thanks. Very helpful. Is this including or excluding fitouts (bathroom/kitchen/landscaping etc)?

[SBMS]

40 minutes ago, Zak S said:

Thanks. Very helpful. Is this including or excluding fitouts (bathroom/kitchen/landscaping etc)?

It does.  Roughly speaking its 300k for everything up to second fix, then 125k for second fix, which is broken out:

 

ASHP (after 5k grant)	£6,200.00
MVHR	£7,000.00
Second Fix Joinery	£16,500.00
Porch	£3,000.00
Kitchen	£35,000.00
Second Fix Electrics & plumbing	£11,000.00
Landscaping and gardens	£20,000.00
Flooring	£9,000.00
Tiling	£5,000.00
Decoration	£5,000.00
Sanitaryware	£7,000.00

 

The main ambitious bit is probably second fix electrics which is probably on the low side.  Kitchen is designer high spec, completely outsourced to a subcontractor kitchen specialist.  Bathroom second fix is through plumber, and we will be purchasing sanitaryware (so no Bathroom designer or subcontractor for that).  Bathrooms are mid range (Grohe or Hans Grohe for taps, Roccia sanitaryware). Flooring is subcontracted out (LVT downstairs @ £60 sqm, Carpets elsewhere at £33.50 sqm). 

[Zak S]

3 hours ago, SBMS said:

 

LVT downstairs @ £60 sqm, Carpets elsewhere at £33.50 sqm

In the past I used interface flooring (they do carpet and LVT which you could use to make flooring patterns. Used in leisure and offices etc quite a lot. Their min order was 200sqm to and the wholesale price worked out to be £25.00sqm. But you would need to add the flooring fitters cost on top. Just thought I share my experience with you in case you want to explore.

[SBMS]

2 hours ago, Zak S said:

In the past I used interface flooring (they do carpet and LVT which you could use to make flooring patterns. Used in leisure and offices etc quite a lot. Their min order was 200sqm to and the wholesale price worked out to be £25.00sqm. But you would need to add the flooring fitters cost on top. Just thought I share my experience with you in case you want to explore.

Thanks!

[SarahG]

On 09/03/2022 at 14:33, SBMS said:

It does.  Roughly speaking its 300k for everything up to second fix, then 125k for second fix, which is broken out:

 

 

ASHP (after 5k grant)	£6,200.00
MVHR	£7,000.00
Second Fix Joinery	£16,500.00
Porch	£3,000.00
Kitchen	£35,000.00
Second Fix Electrics & plumbing	£11,000.00
Landscaping and gardens	£20,000.00
Flooring	£9,000.00
Tiling	£5,000.00
Decoration	£5,000.00
Sanitaryware	£7,000.00

 

The main ambitious bit is probably second fix electrics which is probably on the low side.  Kitchen is designer high spec, completely outsourced to a subcontractor kitchen specialist.  Bathroom second fix is through plumber, and we will be purchasing sanitaryware (so no Bathroom designer or subcontractor for that).  Bathrooms are mid range (Grohe or Hans Grohe for taps, Roccia sanitaryware). Flooring is subcontracted out (LVT downstairs @ £60 sqm, Carpets elsewhere at £33.50 sqm). 

This is really helpful, are the costs incl or excl VAT? Sorry if I missed that. We definitely want ASHP, need to look in to the grant. Our kitchen will be a lot less! I’ve priced and designed it on DIY kitchens and will be around £8k incl VAT. Hoping contractor will install but if not we will do install ourselves as we did with our current kitchen. 

[SBMS]

1 hour ago, SarahG said:

This is really helpful, are the costs incl or excl VAT? Sorry if I missed that. We definitely want ASHP, need to look in to the grant. Our kitchen will be a lot less! I’ve priced and designed it on DIY kitchens and will be around £8k incl VAT. Hoping contractor will install but if not we will do install ourselves as we did with our current kitchen. 

Hi @SarahG

All my costs are +VAT - there’s not much that attracts VAT that materially affects your build cost when self building (kitchen appliances, garage doors etc) so I tend to think in +vat. Another reason to go with contractor/builder - they carry the VAT which helps with cash flow and means you don’t have to worry about HMRC arguing the toss over a badly written invoice of reclaiming at the end!

[Zak S]

15 hours ago, SBMS said:

Hi @SarahG

All my costs are +VAT - there’s not much that attracts VAT that materially affects your build cost when self building (kitchen appliances, garage doors etc) so I tend to think in +vat. Another reason to go with contractor/builder - they carry the VAT which helps with cash flow and means you don’t have to worry about HMRC arguing the toss over a badly written invoice of reclaiming at the end!

Can I please confirm if your builder is NHBC approved or are you sourcing the warranty separately. Does the cost include warranty and building inspection etc to support the warranty?

[PeterW]

5 minutes ago, Zak S said:

Can I please confirm if your builder is NHBC approved or are you sourcing the warranty separately

That isn’t how NHBC works - even if they are an approved contractor yoh still need to pay for the warranty. When you buy a new house with NHBC guarantee from a major developer it basically means they have paid the warranty on your behalf

[Zak S]

48 minutes ago, PeterW said:

That isn’t how NHBC works - even if they are an approved contractor yoh still need to pay for the warranty

Thanks. My understanding was that if they are NHBC contractor then the need for the regular inspections goes away though I understand that payment of warranty cost is still required? Is that correct?

[PeterW]

That is the self certification scheme for major house builders, not for spec builds by individual contractors. The NHBC warranty is also the most onerous in terms of build standards - if you go outside their spec they may not cover you and a lot of it is minimum building regs stuff and if you want to do better then it’s all non standard. 

[SBMS]

3 hours ago, Zak S said:

Can I please confirm if your builder is NHBC approved or are you sourcing the warranty separately. Does the cost include warranty and building inspection etc to support the warranty?

Hi Zak

 

No, builder is not NHBC 'Registered' - it's an important distinction - they're not 'Approved' in the sense that there is no technical prior assessment to become an NHBC member. As I understand it, NHBC membership allows your builder to sell you Buildmark - the NHBC warranty. NHBC will still come out and perform inspections on your build, for your warranty. I think it is only large-scale house builders that can self-certify with NHBC on a development by development basis BUT NHBC will still perform inspections on a random sample of buildings on that development.  I think it says it all that large scale developers can 'self certify' for NHBC Warranty, and yet often sub-contract to local gangs that can produce really shoddy work still.  I think, to be honest, the whole concept of warranty is a joke, and should NOT be relied upon for the quality of your build. Remember that a 'Warranty' is basically another Insurance Policy, that tries to derisk claim payout by assessing at key stages that, across all policies sold, on average, that any claims made do not exceed the total value of the policies. They're designed to protect against the exceptionally bad work, not ensure good work.

 

So basically, this is why I didn't bother with the NHBC Warranty, and instead chose Self Build Zone for their combined warranty and building control service at a cost of £3248 (not included in the prices I gave). Mainly because my self build mortgage required it, and if we sold in the next 10 years.

[matthyde83]

17 hours ago, SBMS said:

Hi Zak

 

No, builder is not NHBC 'Registered' - it's an important distinction - they're not 'Approved' in the sense that there is no technical prior assessment to become an NHBC member. As I understand it, NHBC membership allows your builder to sell you Buildmark - the NHBC warranty. NHBC will still come out and perform inspections on your build, for your warranty. I think it is only large-scale house builders that can self-certify with NHBC on a development by development basis BUT NHBC will still perform inspections on a random sample of buildings on that development.  I think it says it all that large scale developers can 'self certify' for NHBC Warranty, and yet often sub-contract to local gangs that can produce really shoddy work still.  I think, to be honest, the whole concept of warranty is a joke, and should NOT be relied upon for the quality of your build. Remember that a 'Warranty' is basically another Insurance Policy, that tries to derisk claim payout by assessing at key stages that, across all policies sold, on average, that any claims made do not exceed the total value of the policies. They're designed to protect against the exceptionally bad work, not ensure good work.

 

So basically, this is why I didn't bother with the NHBC Warranty, and instead chose Self Build Zone for their combined warranty and building control service at a cost of £3248 (not included in the prices I gave). Mainly because my self build mortgage required it, and if we sold in the next 10 years.

how did you find the selfbuildzone warranty and bc?  We’ve just poured foundations and had our first visit just before pour.  To say I am underwhelmed would be an understatement…

[SBMS]

1 hour ago, matthyde83 said:

how did you find the selfbuildzone warranty and bc?  We’ve just poured foundations and had our first visit just before pour.  To say I am underwhelmed would be an understatement…

What do you mean when you say underwhelmed? As in you expected them to do/check more?

[matthyde83]

34 minutes ago, SBMS said:

What do you mean when you say underwhelmed? As in you expected them to do/check more?

There were there for less than 3 minutes…

I should be pleased there are no issues I suppose but still, I’m in the wrong game $$$

[SBMS]

4 minutes ago, matthyde83 said:

There were there for less than 3 minutes…

I should be pleased there are no issues I suppose but still, I’m in the wrong game $$$

Our build starts next week so will let you know! I think that you had the guy out with his ‘building control’ hat on not his ‘warranty’ hat as I don’t think the warranty is checked before pour? Someone will correct me if wrong. 
 

In any event, self build store actually subcontract out the building control/warranty inspection to a third party anyway. Ours is with Meridian so it’s how good your actual assigned company are? Do you know who they are?

[matthyde83]

3 minutes ago, SBMS said:

Our build starts next week so will let you know! I think that you had the guy out with his ‘building control’ hat on not his ‘warranty’ hat as I don’t think the warranty is checked before pour? Someone will correct me if wrong. 
 

In any event, self build store actually subcontract out the building control/warranty inspection to a third party anyway. Ours is with Meridian so it’s how good your actual assigned company are? Do you know who they are?

yep ACIS…

[PeterW]

9 minutes ago, SBMS said:

Ours is with Meridian

I know Meridian well and they are very good. Pragmatic and helpful.