ICF poll for DIY

[IanMcP]

Hey 

Cost - so cost is always a concern. 
Quality - obv I want quality. 
Time - I’ve quit work , I’m living on site and have lots of time (until the wife has had enough of the static!) 

 

I want do as much as possible

myself. No really myself. Maybe some help to skill up. seems there are plenty of folk here that have been through ICF builds successfully. So tell me which suits me best for the above ? 
 

Nudura

Durisol

Isotex

Velox. 
Isodom2000

Amvic

Beco

 

have I missed any ? 
 

I’m leaning towards nudura…seems popular, capable and well supported.  build is about 320 sqm 

If you vote please support with a simple why ? 

 

thanks 
 

 

[ToughButterCup]

48 minutes ago, IanMcP said:

...

So tell me which suits me best for the above ? 

...

 

I'm not sure anyone can do that;  those who have built with ICF generally only use one type of ICF, not a range of them, and none of us can  know in advance which system would suit anyone else.

I built with one type, and would use the same again, but only because of the hard-won experience with it. I know what to look for, what to avoid and (to a limted extent) whom to avoid.  Go and visit a series of sites and a range of differenct ICF manufacturers. Sniff the air. Listen to the bull-sheet (there's a lot of it about). Something will click.

 

In simple terms, do your own due diligence. Nobody else can do that for you.

Edited December 23, 2021 by ToughButterCup

[IanMcP]

Yes doing that now. But there is so much experience here I want to tap into. Yes I live or die on my decision. 
 

what did you use ? Of course you’ve done the hard yards and are now familiar so next one is easier choice. But could also be never again because…. Most here may only do one build but there’s some pro’s about aswell ? 

[Vijay]

I went with Polarwall and he has been brilliant with advice

[Tosh]

We went for Nudura mainly because we could get a mixture of assembled and unassembled units, the later meant we could wrap them around the steel columns which the planners insisted we kept. At the time there weren't any other systems that offered that flexibility. The product has been great in terms of quality however if I were building a house without these obstacles I would definitely research the market. Amvic was better on price but didn't offer the unassembled units. Initially we looked at Durisol, which meant a slightly different approach to our superstructure build i.e. building walls between the columns rather than encasing them as we've done now, but their pre-sales was so appalling that I just gave up in the end. Nudura was dead easy to use but it didn't eliminate the need to understand all the other construction interfaces e.g. drainage, finishes, flooring, etc etc, something you need to consider with any ICF. This is where someone with design experience of your chosen product will pay dividends. Same goes for choosing an engineer. Nudura support was ok but not great, comes down to the distributor I think as I'd imagine they all provide online literature/videos which incidentally there's plenty of for Nudura. The guy that sold me Nudura said he felt he didn't get the support he needed from the company hence why he moved to a different ICF.

[IanMcP]

1 hour ago, Vijay said:

I went with Polarwall and he has been brilliant with advice

how’s the build @Vijay ? 
 

that’s a new one ! 

[Adrian Walker]

18 hours ago, IanMcP said:

Hey 

Cost - so cost is always a concern. 
Quality - obv I want quality. 
Time - I’ve quit work , I’m living on site and have lots of time (until the wife has had enough of the static!) 

 

I want do as much as possible

 

 

 

You have already decided that you want to build using ICF, so use the same approach to evaluate the best ICF system for your build.

 

Ask BH members for scores on a number of factors. 

 

To start you off Durisol is challenging to get a good air tightness as it doesn't have a continuous concrete lay, so a zero IMHO

 

 

 

 

[Adrian Walker]

Remember that there are two external material building solutions to ICF - polystyrene and woodcrete, which allow for different wall finishes.

[Nickfromwales]

Nudura all the way. Woodcrete systems are porous so moisture ( rainwater ) infiltration is a huge problem all they way up to the external rain screen ( render / other ) being installed, plus soffits - facias - gutters being on and functional. 
Having had 3 M&E projects run simultaneously, with 3 different types of ICF, I would say hands down that an EPS ( inherently water resistant / non-hygroscopic ) based block would be my first choice.
@Russell griffiths recent AT score of 0.28 with a DIY Nudura build speaks volumes. That was with an untreated internal surface, just the raw blocks and concrete core plus perimeter / junctions / openings sealed with various tapes & mastics and foam etc, but most importantly bone dry from the moment the roof was on, including driving rain etc for over a year going directly onto the external EPS facades. That allows the inside to be bone dry and pushed on through the worst parts of the year unhindered. A huge bonus. Plus very little to nothing to be done internally to get airtight, which cannot be said of the 3 big names in woodcrete ICF.

Agenda and budget plus your skill set will be big influencers in which product you end up going with. 

[JohnMo]

Yes had to parge coat Durisol to get airtight.  (2 days additional work).  Was never wet inside, except where water came in unsealed openings prior to door and windows.  Started the walls end November, so had full winter open to elements.  The open structure of woodcrete, means no ill effects of water does hit the walls. 

 

A major plus for me was not needing much in the way of reinforcement, either structural or to do the concrete pour.  So made easier to build for me.  Just osb screwed to corners and at lintels, prior to pour, removed 2 days later.

 

You can screw things direct to woodcrete, like device battons.

 

Half of our house is wooden clad, so building wrap, made this watertight, the other half was only finished stone cladding last month, internal of house finished a couple of months before this.  

 

All have their advantages and disadvantages.  Would use Durisol again, the installation manual is user friendly, but suspect most are.  Built mine when courses were not being offered due to COVID and still found it quite straightforward.

 

From start to finish, 190m2 with up to 4m walls, 2 people 40ish hours week, 4 weeks.

 

Support from factory and local rep when needed.

 

Cost around £60 / m2, ready for the roof and windows.

[scottishjohn]

On 24/12/2021 at 12:49, Nickfromwales said:

Woodcrete systems are porous so moisture ( rainwater ) infiltration is a huge problem all they way up to the external rain screen ( render / other ) being installed, plus soffits - facias - gutters being on and functional. 

I hear what you are saying 

 velox is diffferent in that the woodcrete does not penetrate the concrete core( basically its woodcrete shuttering) -so not to looked at the same as durisol and isotex and again needs very little if any bracing as braces are built into the wall construction before concrete pour 

 

[Happy Valley]

We used Polysteels Warmerwall ICF - a polystyrene block not that dissimilar to Nudura. 200mm core on a back filled wall and 150mm core elsewhere. Have finished the ICF but we are about 5 months from moving in. 

 

Requires bracing which the company provide but it is useful as doubles of internal scaffolding to build the next floor. Should not need rebar reinforcement up to 4 storeys high but our structural engineer clearly did not read their information so lots of rebar in there also. There are useful metal strips inside the polystyrene to attach cladding or wall ties to.

 

The ICF company and support have been excellent.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by Happy Valley

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

I hear what you are saying 

 velox is diffferent in that the woodcrete does not penetrate the concrete core( basically its woodcrete shuttering) -so not to looked at the same as durisol and isotex and again needs very little if any bracing as braces are built into the wall construction before concrete pour 

 

If you believe this you probably sat up waiting for a fat bloke in a red suit to come down your chimney. 

[Russell griffiths]

On 23/12/2021 at 16:58, IanMcP said:

Hey 

Cost - so cost is always a concern. 
Quality - obv I want quality. 
Time - I’ve quit work , I’m living on site and have lots of time (until the wife has had enough of the static!) 

 

I want do as much as possible

myself. No really myself. Maybe some help to skill up. seems there are plenty of folk here that have been through ICF builds successfully. So tell me which suits me best for the above ? 
 

Nudura

Durisol

Isotex

Velox. 
Isodom2000

Amvic

Beco

 

have I missed any ? 
 

I’m leaning towards nudura…seems popular, capable and well supported.  build is about 320 sqm 

If you vote please support with a simple why ? 

 

thanks 
 

 

 

Nudura this is what I used. Downside, pita to get any tape to stick to it, you need to primer all surfaces to get tape or sealant to stick. 

 

Durisol. You would need to give me this free to even entertain using it. 

 

Isotex. Again it would have to be under half price of the Nudura to make me even think about it. 

 

Velox. You would need to pay me £20,000 plus to even get this through the gate at my place. 

 

Isodom. I have no experience of this product 

 

amvic. One I priced up, but at the time the company was in a bit of bother so I didn’t pursue it, I believe @willbish used it. 

 

Beco. Doesn’t have any form of plastic or metal web, instead it is relying on poly webs for its structure, this doesn’t give it any method of fixing to the lock apart from going right through to the concrete core. Very outdated in my opinion. 

 

My views are based on having  worked on a number of icf builds these last 2 years, not just reading their website or brochure. 

[Russell griffiths]

@IanMcP have you contacted the bloke on here selling the Nudura. 

[IanMcP]

9 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

@IanMcP have you contacted the bloke on here selling the Nudura. 

yes. A good option indeed. I need to figure out what pieces I need. Still waiting for the quote 

 

thanks for longer quote. Confirms my thinking. 

[Russell griffiths]

3 minutes ago, IanMcP said:

yes. A good option indeed. I need to figure out what pieces I need. Still waiting for the quote 

 

thanks for longer quote. Confirms my thinking. 

If going Nudura you only use two blocks, standard straight and corners. 

All corners are multi directional, so you don’t have a right or left just one block you flip over to do both jobs. 

I would add it up very quickly and get a price agreed. 

Nudura depot in Essex so you can pick up the extras anytime with a small truck. 

 

If I had my planning in place for my next build I would have brought it all the same day he advertised it. 

[willbish]

2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

amvic. One I priced up, but at the time the company was in a bit of bother so I didn’t pursue it, I believe @willbish used it. 

 

I used Logix. On reflection very happy with the resul and glad I chose EPS version over woodcrete.

 

@IanMcP if you google search "site:buildhub.org.uk logix" you will find plenty of info, where ive written about my experiences.

[keith65]

I have built with Isotex and have found it very easy to work with, and found them very help full. But almost went for Jackon Thermomur  as I cut the ICF firms down and ended with just two firms on a short list, but have been very happy with what I chose.

[Mr Punter]

On 23/12/2021 at 17:43, Vijay said:

I went with Polarwall and he has been brilliant with advice

 

I have also used Polarwall for a basement and found them very helpful.  Construction is pretty simple.

[BotusBuild]

I looked at both EPS and woodcrete based alternatives. I went for Nudura in the end. Here is a link to the story of my first floor build done back in November by SWMBO and I after one day's onsite help from the local Nudura distributors. Would definitely use it again.

 

Try to design and build to the dimensions of the materials if you can (to avoid cutting and hence wastage)

 

 

[IanMcP]

@BotusBuild great post and project. Many similarities with our project. Would love to chat further. Will message you. 

[Adrian Walker]

Quote

Velox. You would need to pay me £20,000 plus to even get this through the gate at my place. 

 

This seems a bit harsh.  What was your issues and problem during your build with Velox?

[Russell griffiths]

2 hours ago, Adrian Walker said:

 

This seems a bit harsh.  What was your issues and problem during your build with Velox?

To much to list here, do a bit of research and see what you think. 

[Adrian Walker]

5 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

To much to list here, do a bit of research and see what you think. 

I have done research and hence my question.  I'm assuming that you did a fabric first approach, with Airtightness first followed by Insulation?  Thermal Bridging, Triple Glazing and MVHR would be similar for all the ICF systems.