Not enough glue in 22mm Egger Chipboard installation?

[keith65]

You can get a D4 PVA glue it is just most people use PU glues now as they foam so fill gaps.

[Adsibob]

44 minutes ago, keith65 said:

You can get a D4 PVA glue it is just most people use PU glues now as they foam so fill gaps.

Well that is somewhat reassuring as it's possible he just used D4 made by another manufacturer. I'm a little confused by the notion that there are gaps to be filled, because this is brand new chipboard being laid on brand new posi joists, so in theory there will be no gaps.

[PeterW]

50 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

I'm a little confused by the notion that there are gaps to be filled, because this is brand new chipboard being laid on brand new posi joists, so in theory there will be no gaps.

Unless the joists are planed then there will still be rough surfaces to fill. It looks a bit like D4 PVA from the photos 

[Makeitstop]

7 hours ago, Adsibob said:

You are probably right, but my concern is not just that there are no squeaks before floor finish goes down. I want no squeaks for the next 20 to 30 years. That's why I went with a product that has a "lifetime guarantee". I guess my only real option now is to double up on the floor tite screws. Egger also show that one can paint over the joins with their adhesive which appears to protect them from moisture ingress, so maybe we should do that as well.

 

Moisture ingress?... from what and where?

 

To me, that sounds like company marketing bs to get people to spend more cash. There would never be enough moisture in the relative humidity in a well insulated and heated house to cause any concerns over moisture "excess". Even if you spilled an entire bucket os water of a section of floor, I'd bet the subsequent absorption would be so minimal, that it wouldn't be noticeable a week later.

 

On the subject of adhesives used too, the pu stuff has far greater gap filling abilities than pva, so that's where it would have an advantage. Whether that's even "that" necessary is debatable, as with fairly close fitting joints on the boards and once screwed down onto joists, all areas of contact would likely be tight enough to provide good solid service I'd have thought. Of course, the pu is probably better, and would likely be superior in terms of flexibility also. As already pointed out though, if a good mechanical fix is ensured (screwed down well) it's unlikely to go far.

 

[Adsibob]

These are all helpful comments, thank you. I agree with @Makeitstop (good name by the way) that the moisure ingress is marketing balony. That's what Egger say on the Egger video advert.

But even if it is D4 PVA, it is still missing from a lot of joins and so I've told my builder I'm not happy and we're meeting on Tuesday to discuss. Will update forum on the outcome.

[keith65]

If you read the back of PU glue pot, you would not use it 

[LA3222]

Rather than all the guessing, either ask the builder to show you what he used or go looking for rubbish - I'm guessing there is a skip knocking about?

[joe90]

25 minutes ago, keith65 said:

If you read the back of PU glue pot, you would not use it 

Why? ( I don’t have one to read!).

[Adsibob]

8 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Why? ( I don’t have one to read!).

I was just thinking that.

[joe90]

1 minute ago, Adsibob said:

I was just thinking that.

Great minds think alike ?

[epsilonGreedy]

10 hours ago, Makeitstop said:

Moisture ingress?... from what and where?

 

 

Some floors are laid before the roof goes on. Later there will be moisture near baths and shower trays.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, keith65 said:

If you read the back of PU glue pot, you would not use it 

 

I can't read script that small now ... add a dose of pollen to the air ... smudge my glasses a bit ... crack a joke, make me cry with laughter ... functionally blind.  ?

 

[DragsterDriver]

It will be everywhere looking from underneath 

[Iceverge]

A little bit of a long video but Robin makes a nice job of this. 

 

 

https://youtu.be/YB78HiD3mlI

[Makeitstop]

2 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

Some floors are laid before the roof goes on. Later there will be moisture near baths and shower trays.

 

Fair point, but I'd not remotely consider putting any particleboard flooring down before a building was weather tight.

 

I'd also have thought that properly functioning baths and showers manage to keep the water where it should be, and, that they don't share their contents with the flooring. If they were to fail, my concerns would possibly be focussed on other more pressing issues than whether my floor ended up squeaking in future as a result.

 

 

 

[joe90]

1 hour ago, Makeitstop said:

but I'd not remotely consider putting any particleboard flooring down before a building was weather tight.

With our build the floor (upstairs) went down before the walls were built fir the top floor during the winter. At times water was running down the stairwell but I have to say none of it swelled at all. Perhaps it was because all joints were oozing expanding glue??? Mind even the cut edges around the stairwell didn’t swell either.

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, keith65 said:

If you read the back of PU glue pot, you would not use it 

Why? Does it say “Do not use this glue after purchase”?  Been using it for decades and I won’t use anything else. D4 PU glue is exceptionally good stuff.
 

If it’s summertime or a spell of bone dry sunny weather, I use a fine mist of water or a wet sponge to prep the to-be-glued surfaces / areas as PU is moisture cure and it behaves completely differently when given the required moisture ( there is of course moisture in the air, but it doesn’t get to the core of the glue so that suffers ‘pockets’, air bubbles that offer nothing in terms of gap filling or purchase ).

Regardless, you’d see excess if PU glue had been used. 

[Nickfromwales]

14 hours ago, Adsibob said:

These are all helpful comments, thank you. I agree with @Makeitstop (good name by the way) that the moisure ingress is marketing balony. That's what Egger say on the Egger video advert.

No, it’s not. It’s a recommendation for extending the amount of time an installed deck can resist the elements. Specifically aimed at TF’s where the deck boards MUST be installed before the second lift can go on. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Makeitstop said:

Fair point, but I'd not remotely consider putting any particleboard flooring down before a building was weather tight

As above. 

[Adsibob]

19 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

No, it’s not. It’s a recommendation for extending the amount of time an installed deck can resist the elements. Specifically aimed at TF’s where the deck boards MUST be installed before the second lift can go on. 
 

 

As above. 

Well it's horses for courses. If you need moisture resistance because the site is still exposed, then that's useful. But if not, it's unnecessary. Luckily we have been waterproof for a while now.

[Dave Jones]

If it was me, that floor is coming up and pu glue used to put it back down. 

 

No debate its done.

 

you will kick yourself forever when the first, followed by second and third squeeks occur when walking over it.

[saveasteading]

This foaming glue stuff is news to me. We don't know something until we hear it for the first time so thanks for the update.

I have had plenty of occasions insisting on any glue at all, never mind fancy stuff.

 

Looking for a supplier, there doesn't seem to be much of it about. Lots of g4, but without any mention of foaming.

 

Then I see that Egger is £11 for a litre, which does 3 boards!.

Hardly surprising that the use of pva continues.

[joe90]

6 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

This foaming glue stuff is news to me

I used this to glue the lining (osb) to my warm roof to make it airtight, very good as the foaming filled every small nook and cranny and the airtight test was good. I use it on many things now.

[Dave Jones]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

I used this to glue the lining (osb) to my warm roof to make it airtight, very good as the foaming filled every small nook and cranny and the airtight test was good. I use it on many things now.

 

without a proper vapour barrier, like Alutrix,  it wont be airtight by a long shot.

[James Newport]

46 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Looking for a supplier, there doesn't seem to be much of it about. Lots of g4, but without any mention of foaming.

It's this kind of stuff

https://www.toolstation.com/30-minute-polyurethane-wood-glue/p52489

 

[Dave Jones]

49 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

This foaming glue stuff is news to me. We don't know something until we hear it for the first time so thanks for the update.

I have had plenty of occasions insisting on any glue at all, never mind fancy stuff.

 

Looking for a supplier, there doesn't seem to be much of it about. Lots of g4, but without any mention of foaming.

 

Then I see that Egger is £11 for a litre, which does 3 boards!.

Hardly surprising that the use of pva continues.

 

a litre does way more than 3 boards.  If you read the instructions with the egger protect it tells you exactly what,how much and where to use it. Any non-cowboy chippy would know it also.