Topo survey

[nod]

Architecht has sugested a Topo

While the site is 3 acres it’s very flat 

From the front to the dyke at the back there is a 2 mtr fall in 158 mtr run and a 1 mtr fall across in 90 mtre

My question is Is there anything a topo will tell me that I can’t find out by using Google earth pro 

Our Architecht has intimated that planner will require this Something that I very much doubt 

 

I can see where it would help him 

in not having to do the measurements himself But I don’t feel I can justify 600 plus vat 

Any thought 

 

[Dudda]

The Topo survey will also pick up the boundaries and cover the road outside the site. This is useful to work out sightlines for entrances if needed. It's several years since I worked on a project where we didn't get a Topo survey done. 

 

It will make the architects life so much easier and a lot more accurate. I'd get it done. If something happens onsite they can claim it's not their fault as they didn't get the survey they requested.

 

The project I'm working on now is a large extension to an existing educational building. The surveys we've done include Topo, 3D building survey, utility survey, aspestos survey, structural timber defects survey and tree survey. That would be fairly standard for the buildings I work on. On one of the last projects we did a bird SHlT survey as the amount of birds in the roof created a high level of ammonia which was a health hazard. Bat surveys, environmental and invasive species surveys are also common. Getting off lightly if you only need the Topo

Edited April 18, 2021 by Dudda

[nod]

Thanks for that 

Some good points there 

Ive just spoken to a friend who’s having one done on Monday £180 

Which seems a bit more realistic than what the Architecht is quoting 

[Mr Punter]

They are really handy if there are neighbouring buildings and you need an elevation in context.  Also for drain inverts, cover levels and setting out points.

 

180 sounds very cheap

[the_r_sole]

Most topo surveys for a single site we have are around 600 quid, we usually get a couple of quotes and they're never significantly different - definitely not 180 quid vs 600! 

They can be extremely useful if you're getting quotes for groundworks,  drainage and foundations as you've got quantifiable information to reduce the assumptions contractors are making. Can also help with details of trees/walls/fences, setting out, ridge heights for planning etc. 

We'd always recommend that clients get one, for 600 quid in the grand scheme of things you could save that on the groundworks package with more accurate information!

I have done a number of sites without them and it just means you have more unknowns to account for, but I have had planning insisting that ridge heights are set in relation to ordnance survey datum and also had roads insist that an access drawing is done with precise levels 

 

[nod]

2 hours ago, the_r_sole said:

Most topo surveys for a single site we have are around 600 quid, we usually get a couple of quotes and they're never significantly different - definitely not 180 quid vs 600! 

They can be extremely useful if you're getting quotes for groundworks,  drainage and foundations as you've got quantifiable information to reduce the assumptions contractors are making. Can also help with details of trees/walls/fences, setting out, ridge heights for planning etc. 

We'd always recommend that clients get one, for 600 quid in the grand scheme of things you could save that on the groundworks package with more accurate information!

I have done a number of sites without them and it just means you have more unknowns to account for, but I have had planning insisting that ridge heights are set in relation to ordnance survey datum and also had roads insist that an access drawing is done with precise levels 

 

Why I asked I didn’t have one on our first build I simply borrowed an EDM and set everything out 

But had a main road with curbs and pavements On our next build we have little to use for reference 

 

The 180 is mates rates I’ve a friend who has a groundwork’s company 

He just said use our guy and put it on our account 

[ProDave]

No Topo here.  I did my own surveys with laser level (at dusk) and a long tape measure to map important features like site levels at each corner of the house, road levels at spot points etc.  Then did some basic maths to work out volume of excavated soil and predict final site levels as I used the excavated soil to build up the site low points.

 

It all worked out well.

[SuperJohnG]

I got a topo done (large 3 acre site) seemed fairly flat, but surprised at the falls. 

 

I then set my house position using autocad and gave it to architect. Came in really handy for me, but suppose nothing I couldn't have done without it. 

 

I just like detail like that. 

[Post and beam]

F*!k, I have been quoted almost £5k for a Topo' survey and a street scene.  £600 is a whole lot more like it. I am in hertfordshire by the way but i'm still not made of money.

[Alfie]

Pretty sure we paid £680 for ours in Northamptonshire. 

[Dudda]

21 hours ago, Post and beam said:

F*!k, I have been quoted almost £5k for a Topo' survey and a street scene.  £600 is a whole lot more like it. I am in hertfordshire by the way but i'm still not made of money.

A street scene is a lot more work and can vary a huge amount depending on the level of detail. Did you get three quotes like others have suggested?

[Temp]

21 hours ago, Post and beam said:

F*!k, I have been quoted almost £5k for a Topo' survey and a street scene.  £600 is a whole lot more like it. I am in hertfordshire by the way but i'm still not made of money.

 

Normally these are done by different people (Surveyor  and Architect) so my guess is the Surveyor didn't want to do the street scene drawing. 

 

Our Architect was a bit of an artist and used pen, ink and watercolour to do the street scene. 

[Marvin]

On 18/04/2021 at 20:25, ProDave said:

No Topo here.  I did my own surveys with laser level (at dusk) and a long tape measure to map important features like site levels at each corner of the house, road levels at spot points etc.  Then did some basic maths to work out volume of excavated soil and predict final site levels as I used the excavated soil to build up the site low points.

 

It all worked out well.

 

Oh the joys of trigonometry, a good level and some long tapes.

 

How things have changed, When I was a chainman(lad) we had to stand out in all weathers and hold on t't tape and engineer would shout at us if the hail stones made the tape sag.

 

I say we stood, but t't hail stones would hit you like they were shot from a gun, and by the time you got home, and of course we had 12 hour shifts in them days, you would look like a lobster that had been dunked in a pan of boiling water.

 

I say home, well it was home to us....

 

 

[Temp]

You can hire a theodolite for £20-£60 a week but modern ones are pretty complicated.

 

https://www.zenithsurvey.co.uk/product/datum-theodolite-hire/

 

 

[Post and beam]

Is this not up to the job then guys

http://www.merlinlazer.com/Jogger-20-Automatic-Optical-Level-Package---Includes-Tripod---Staff?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI85qu7fHb8gIVDtPtCh1YVAjgEAQYASABEgIpKfD_BwE

 

Its about £200

 

I did get another quote but that was still £2500.

There is in fact an existing Topo for the site that relates to a previous unrelated attempt to put 8 houses on the site. It is pape only and of poor quality and Potton insist on elctronic .dwg or similar cad files.

[PeterW]

 

12 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

Potton insist on elctronic .dwg or similar cad files.

Change TF provider …..?? Why do they need a CAD topo of the site ..? Are they doing the full foundation package ..??

 

12 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

this not up to the job then guys

http://www.merlinlazer.com/Jogger-20-Automatic-Optical-Level-Package---Includes-Tripod---Staff?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI85qu7fHb8gIVDtPtCh1YVAjgEAQYASABEgIpKfD_BwE

 

That is a standard optical level. To do a full topo with that you would need a surveyors tape and a willing volunteer … You would take a series of readings, with height and direction from the level and then distance from the tape. Long, laborious and prone to error. 
 

To do it quickly and easily you need something like a TS12 which is around the £200/wk to hire. You then need to put it Into a CAD format from the read set, and do the full layout from that so probably need Autocad or similar, which will take 2-3 hours of someone who knows what they are doing. 
 

£5-600 on a topo sounds cheap now doesn’t it ..??
 

 

[Dave Jones]

On 31/08/2021 at 19:28, Post and beam said:

F*!k, I have been quoted almost £5k for a Topo' survey and a street scene.  £600 is a whole lot more like it. I am in hertfordshire by the way but i'm still not made of money.

 £5k !

 

Jesus thats pure robbery.

[Post and beam]

£5-600 does indeed sound cheap and i would be happy to pay that much without argument. The numbers i have been quoted so far are not cheap or even reasonable in my opinion.

[CharlieKLP]

@Post and beam

 

How much was the survey Potton recommended to you?

Edited September 14, 2021 by CharlieKLP

[Post and beam]

Hi CharlieKLP

Potton didn't recommend one, they told me i would have to get one done to put into the  package that would form the Planning application that they submit on your behalf . Their planning submmission is £5k+VAT. Everything that they expect me to do, like the Topo' is at my cost and on top.

I guess they want the Topo' so that they can design the foundations etc.

[CharlieKLP]

1 hour ago, Post and beam said:

Hi CharlieKLP

Potton didn't recommend one, they told me i would have to get one done to put into the  package that would form the Planning application that they submit on your behalf . Their planning submmission is £5k+VAT. Everything that they expect me to do, like the Topo' is at my cost and on top.

I guess they want the Topo' so that they can design the foundations etc.

Hi!
 

Ask them for a topo quote. If you are going to use them, then they will be able to give you the service discount. I don’t know why you got such a high quote when you looked for surveyors, is there an existing building on your site? A survey should be less than 1k, with an elevation from the road too. 
 

also on the website, it says 4K plus vat, so say you want that price. https://www.potton.co.uk/what-we-do/build-systems/pricing-structure-build-costs-guide

 

I wouldn’t trust an architect to design me a house without a topo, you are going to need one eventually anyway. It’s not a ridiculous request at all.

 

[ETC]

“Architecht has sugested a Topo

While the site is 3 acres it’s very flat.”

 

3 acre flat site - I wouldn’t get a topological survey done unless you’re building a shed load of houses or roads or if there are services above and below that you need to accurately plot.

[Post and beam]

12 hours ago, CharlieKLP said:

Hi!
 

Ask them for a topo quote. If you are going to use them, then they will be able to give you the service discount. I don’t know why you got such a high quote when you looked for surveyors, is there an existing building on your site? A survey should be less than 1k, with an elevation from the road too. 
 

also on the website, it says 4K plus vat, so say you want that price. https://www.potton.co.uk/what-we-do/build-systems/pricing-structure-build-costs-guide

 

I wouldn’t trust an architect to design me a house without a topo, you are going to need one eventually anyway. It’s not a ridiculous request at all.

 

 The suggestion of a Topo' survey is indeed not a ridiculous one, i dont have an issue with it at all. However, the prices i was quoted are ridiculous.

[the_r_sole]

Do you need the full 3 acres surveyed? Probably not - what you want is the house site and access surveyed as a minimum. 

"relatively flat" over site could still mean a reasonable change in levels 

[saveasteading]

On 18/04/2021 at 13:03, nod said:

Google earth pro

Unfortunately it is a bit inexact on levels. it is rounded to 1m and the sampling appears to be very far apart. Some areas are clearly interpolations, or just wrong.

 

depending on where you live, you can get a full survey done (yours sounds very easy) for £300, or can be £2,000 from someone who is slower without the kit.

The £300 can be for a half day with very sophisticated kit (which they own) which transfers to computer and plan. OR old fashioned level on an existing plan.

The top costs come when there is no competition, or  where someone has to hire the kit for £300 and then draw it up.

 

So ask around.

The planners will want a plan, but it probably doesn't have to be very detailed.

 

For a 3 acre site I suggest you get an OS map to satisfy the general layout and topography. You or your architect can get that direct from OS for a reasonable fee, and then it is legit to use for location too. Perhaps a more detailed survey is needed at the house position, or perhaps not.

You paying for a topo certainly helps the architect.