Highland Girl

[epsilonGreedy]

6 minutes ago, Highland girl said:

The house is worth about 400k in total maybe 300k without the bit on the end but people have said on here that it is unlikely that I would be asked to knock it down.

 

Can you relinquish 4m to the farm on the other side?

 

One reason I ask is that in English planning terms you have built on agricultural land not zoned for residential property. Once you have reached a legal title agreement with the farmer you will then have to settle this planning transgression with the local Council and handing back a strip of land on the other side of the plot might help resolve this.

[recoveringbuilder]

I’m surmising the farmer is a relative of your ex since you don’t get farmers handing away land to strangers for nothing. If you are having to sell the house to pay out your ex his share which you can’t do under the present circumstances it’s surely to your ex’s benefit to talk to the farmer and get the settlement done.

[Highland girl]

He wasn't aware until he saw it on the Crofting Registry of Scotland.The site was not square and I have put house at an angle so on the ground it is difficult to see encroachment.

[Highland girl]

7 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said:

I’m surmising the farmer is a relative of your ex since you don’t get farmers handing away land to strangers for nothing. If you are having to sell the house to pay out your ex his share which you can’t do under the present circumstances it’s surely to your ex’s benefit to talk to the farmer and get the settlement done.

Yes you are right.Don't think my ex is desperate he has just stopped paying mortgage think getting money for my mistake is more important.

But I feel better for the help I've had here because it doesn't look as if they can force me to pay to get title....as long as they don't go to mortgage company but they possibly won't be too concerned as they are getting paid.

[recoveringbuilder]

11 minutes ago, Highland girl said:

Yes you are right.Don't think my ex is desperate he has just stopped paying mortgage think getting money for my mistake is more important.

But I feel better for the help I've had here because it doesn't look as if they can force me to pay to get title....as long as they don't go to mortgage company but they possibly won't be too concerned as they are getting paid.

If that’s the case that your ex isn’t bothered about getting his share just now and you can afford to pay the mortgage on your own I’d just sit it out! He will presumably eventually want his share and at that point it’ll be his problem to sort out. If the mortgage is in both your names he is jointly liable for the mistake. The only drawback to that is you are continuing to pay a mortgage on your own on a property that is appreciating in value and he will eventually reap the benefits of that.

[the_r_sole]

How did it get set out incorrectly?

(I once saw a farm buiilding 20m out of place ?)

Was a title deed produced and agreed by all side and then pegged out on the site with gps locations etc? When we are working with bare sites we always have the redline produced by a topo surveryor once it's been pegged out to make sure it's accurate. But what reference points have been used for setting this one out? 

Have you still taken the same area of ground agreed in the sale or is it the land plus an extra 4m? And/or could you just lose 4m on the opposite side? it doesn't sound like the building position is hampering any farm operation or in the way at all so it sounds like it should be negotiable to either redefine the plot with the same area as agreed or to negotiate for an extra 4m strip...

[Jilly]

Sit tight and try to think out win win scenarios in your personal dealings first as things are much more straightforward to resolve if no one feels stuffed. Look at the problems from other people's point of view so that you can address their concerns or give them value some other way. 

 

 Get a lodger to pay the bills in the interim maybe?! 

 

All the best. 

[AliMcLeod]

It's not clear (a site map showing approved and actual would be useful) but it sounds like the house is actually more than 4 meters away from where it was meant to be (as per approved plan), but has encroached 4m outside of the owned plot. It sounds like that 4m area might be farmland, so potentially not marked as residential.

 

Highland Girl, have you spoken to the architect? Have you actually moved into the house (I note you say it has no completion certificate yet). Have you submitted your VAT reclaim (ie. is this waiting on the completion certificate)?

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by AliMcLeod

[Temp]

I believe you need to get this sorted with the land owner. What if he died? The new owner might not be so sympathetic. Unless I'm mistaken they can go to court for trespass and get a court to order you to pay damages and that might still not fully resolve the problem.  Presumably  you dont just need the bit under the house itself but also a strip of land. 

 

The planning department probably have 10 years to initiate enforcement  action because the encroachment is onto agricultural land which would require change of use. 

 

If your ex is still on the title be very careful. Just because he's not paying his share of the mortgage doesnt automatically  mean his share of the property reduces. You need to get legal advice on how thus should be documented. Each month he doesnt pay should reduce his share.

 

A lot can change in 10 years. It would certainly have to be resolved if there was a forced sale.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Temp

[AliMcLeod]

1 hour ago, Highland girl said:

No.But if he has no grounds for land court I will happily live in the house until he needs to give me title.

From the advice I have had on here it looks as if Farmer can do nothing.

 

I'd be getting proper advice before assuming these points are correct - as it stands, you have built a house on someone else's land.

[Temp]

I don't think the CIL applies in the Highlands but what would happen down here in England if a couple splits up within 3 years of completion? Presumably nothing if one person can afford to stay in the house?

[Carrerahill]

2 hours ago, Highland girl said:

The house is worth about 400k in total maybe 300k without the bit on the end but people have said on here that it is unlikely that I would be asked to knock it down.

Unlikely but there is a chance. 

 

Friends neighbour accidentally built into an area of woodland which belonged to an adjacent farm - the woods were cleared and the house built, it was reasonable that the farmer would not have seen this due to the area of his farm, long story short, the house had to be partially demolished - certainly the neighbour didn't handle it very well and the farmer just served him with a court order to leave his land and reinstate it as it was!

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Carrerahill

[Carrerahill]

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Buy more than the 4m.

 

Buy enough to make a decent small garden on that side.

 

At least wide enough (another 4m?) such that you can work on your house easily, and can guarantee privacy.

Yeah realistically speaking yes, but I was just saying - buy the 4m - solved. But yes, it would maybe more likely be 6 or 8 or even 10 if she could. 

 

Not sure why an architect let her move the building location, boggy or not, planning might be upset too!

[newhome]

36 minutes ago, Temp said:

I don't think the CIL applies in the Highlands but what would happen down here in England if a couple splits up within 3 years of completion? Presumably nothing if one person can afford to stay in the house?

Depends if both names are on the CIL forms I guess. If only one individual is named and moves out then they will be the one liable for the CIL. 

[Thedreamer]

6 hours ago, Highland girl said:

I have recently completed my self build the Architect set out site and house,solicitor drew down staged mortgage.When I went to sell it it was noticed that I never had title to my whole site e.g. the house is 4 metres onto farmland that I don't own.

What can I do?I have not informed the mortgage company yet and don't know if I should.Do Architect of Solicitor have any respnsibility?

 

Is it crofting land? 

 

Is it listed here? 

 

https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/search-property-information

 

[Highland girl]

Yes.

[Stones]

@Highland girl

 

So you have a number of issues here.

 

First the position of the house, if you have built it in the wrong place (and you have said you and the architect pegged it out), then you have built your house otherwise than in accordance with your approved plans.  How your local planning authority views this will depend on a number of factors - there is always a little give and take, but 4 metres is a material rather than non material change, and I would suggest you would be asked to reapply for planning permission to regularise the development. That may come with additional restrictions.  In order to remove the development, enforcement action would have to be taken, which has appeal provision in place.  The first objective will be to regularise I suspect, if the house is otherwise built in accordance with the approved plans.  You could be proactive and go to the planning authority and ask how to regularise now you realise the situation, or wait for enforcement action to be initiated.  I would suggest if you are intending to sell, you need to get this resolved.

 

As to you building on land which you do not own, the position with your ex and him 'having' to sign over title, splitting sale proceeds and who gets what etc, you NEED to get professional legal advice, not rely on an online forum of non legal experts.  All you are getting here are thoughts and opinions.

 

If you have encroached onto crofting land, then you would need to get a decrofting direction for the relevant area (assuming the actual original house plot has already been decrofted).  

 

 

[Highland girl]

1 hour ago, AliMcLeod said:

It's not clear (a site map showing approved and actual would be useful) but it sounds like the house is actually more than 4 meters away from where it was meant to be (as per approved plan), but has encroached 4m outside of the owned plot. It sounds like that 4m area might be farmland, so potentially not marked as residential.

 

Highland Girl, have you spoken to the architect? Have you actually moved into the house (I note you say it has no completion certificate yet). Have you submitted your VAT reclaim (ie. is this waiting on the completion certificate)?

 

 

 

Yes  it has moved more than 4 meters and it is also 4 meters onto farmland.

Yes submitted VAT reclaim and waiting for completion certificate.

[Highland girl]

1 hour ago, AliMcLeod said:

It's not clear (a site map showing approved and actual would be useful) but it sounds like the house is actually more than 4 meters away from where it was meant to be (as per approved plan), but has encroached 4m outside of the owned plot. It sounds like that 4m area might be farmland, so potentially not marked as residential.

 

Highland Girl, have you spoken to the architect? Have you actually moved into the house (I note you say it has no completion certificate yet). Have you submitted your VAT reclaim (ie. is this waiting on the completion certificate)?

 

 

 

Yes  it has moved more than 4 meters and it is also 4 meters onto farmland.

Yes submitted VAT reclaim and waiting for completion certificate.

[Highland girl]

[PeterW]

Those two areas are different shapes ..!! Assuming the other house is in the correct place on the map, you haven’t really got the right layout on either of those systems. 
 

GIS maps are notorious for being out of alignment - if you can overlay the existing satellite over the Croft map you may see that the current house to the right is also in the wrong place. 

[Highland girl]

Does this make more sense?

[ToughButterCup]

3 hours ago, Stones said:

....

First the position of the house, if you have built it in the wrong place (and you have said you and the architect pegged it out), then you have built your house otherwise than in accordance with your approved plans. 

...

 

Could I just ask: how do you know that 

Quote

... the house is 4 metres onto farmland that I don't own. ...

 

I ask because ( and I had forgotten ) @PeterW's point 

 

52 minutes ago, PeterW said:

...

GIS maps are notorious for being out of alignment - if you can overlay the existing satellite over the Croft map you may see that the current house to the right is also in the wrong place. 

 

How do you know for sure that your house is in the wrong position; and on what (or with what) authority  was that statement made to you?

 

In other words, what's the evidence base for the claim that your house is in the wrong place?

[the_r_sole]

7 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Could I just ask: how do you know that 

 

I ask because ( and I had forgotten ) @PeterW's point 

 

 

How do you know for sure that your house is in the wrong position; and on what (or with what) authority  was that statement made to you?

 

In other words, what's the evidence base for the claim that your house is in the wrong place?

 

exactly - it goes back to how it was set out and what information was used for that, I've had numerous arguments with solicitors in the past about them wanting OS drawings which aren't actually correct to be used as deed plans...

[pdf27]

3 hours ago, Highland girl said:

Yes  it has moved more than 4 meters and it is also 4 meters onto farmland.

Yes submitted VAT reclaim and waiting for completion certificate.

Just to confirm - is the image above the one showing what you own, i.e. the one with the land registry? The maps are all inconsistent with each other.

IF this is the correct map, then we have a good datum on the ground for where your land starts - the corner of the boundary with the other house marked (2). Note that the green area marked on the croft map is inconsistent with this because the corner does not match the boundary shown - the discrepancy is something like 10m scaling off the 51.3m length marked.