Highland girl Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 I have recently completed my self build the Architect set out site and house,solicitor drew down staged mortgage.When I went to sell it it was noticed that I never had title to my whole site e.g. the house is 4 metres onto farmland that I don't own. What can I do?I have not informed the mortgage company yet and don't know if I should.Do Architect of Solicitor have any respnsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Welcome to the forum, Sounds like the worst possible situation and I find it so hard to understand how this could happen, I hope someone on the forum is able to provide you with some good information. Can you elaborate on how you came to own the plot in the first place ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 How did this come about? Was the plot wrongly fenced? Was it previously 2 parcels of land and a mistake happened when you bought the plot an only one got transferred? Or did someone simply make a total error when marking it out and put the house in the wrong place but that would presumably have involved removing a fence? Before you can apportion blame and look for a resolution, you have to understand exactly what happened to result in where you are. How long since work started? i.e. how long have you been occupying this wrong bit of land, and did the owner of it not notice and mention the problem to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Oooooof. Get the whole story from the solicitor. Ask why? And then come and tell us what the reason is. Instinct tells me, gently gently diplomatically ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland girl Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 The plot was gifted to me,by the farm owner that I have now encroached on.The site was measured out by myself and Architect and it was myself and architect that pinned out house .I was going to fence off my own site after build was complete.In honesty I have not put the house in exactly the place I got planning for Architect and myself moved the house slightly forward as the ground was not so boggy but in doing this I have encroached on Farmer(I know I am to blame)but how can I resolve this should Architect or Solicitor that drew down mortgage not have noticed at foundation stage?Should I inform mortgage company that I simply don't have title for house that I got mortgage money for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 No don't go talking to your mortgage yet. As you were gifted the land by the farmer you must know them well or have some close connection, so I would start by talking to the farmer and pointing out the mistake and see if you can buy enough extra of the land so you then own all the land the house is on. That has got to surely be the easiest resolution? The other issue is have planning noticed the house is in the wrong place? Don't go mentioning it to them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Sounds to me like an honest mistake. Sort out the issue at an informal level first. At issue is 4 meters. The house exists - nobody is going to be able to argue that you should pick it up and move it. But this issue is akin to the ransom strip stories we hear fairly regularly. Bottom line: you may not be able to sell because someone in the discussion group wants to stand on principle. Which is why diplomacy and calm negociation will be key Do those 4 meters matter? If so how? Can four other meters be 'given back' in some way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan 1 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Like mentioned above do not mention anything to planners or Bank, get the site you own marked out exactly by an engineer to avoid an future errors and talk to the farmer. You would need to get the piece of land you need transferred into your name and ONLY if you were to sell it would I approach your solicitor to get the 2 parcels amalgamated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) Maybe reconsider selling at the moment before stirring up a hornet's nest. If the farmer gifted the land, presumably he isn't bothered about the 4m or he would have mentioned it as the house went up. You and the farmer need to explore all the other things you may have overlooked, like CGT. Don't split the Title until you are sure of your position. Sometimes (often) advisors are only familiar with their part of the process. Look up the 4 (or is it 7?!) year rule in planning in Scotland. I think you need a specialist property lawyer. Edited February 3, 2021 by Jilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Reflect too on what sort of sums you want to pay. I would think about low to a few thousands plus you do costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 In England Council would not enforce on that even if it was new and an honest mistake. Scotland? (Question to other posters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 28 minutes ago, Highland girl said: The plot was gifted to me,by the farm owner that I have now encroached on.The site was measured out by myself and Architect and it was myself and architect that pinned out house .I was going to fence off my own site after build was complete.In honesty I have not put the house in exactly the place I got planning for Architect and myself moved the house slightly forward as the ground was not so boggy but in doing this I have encroached on Farmer(I know I am to blame)but how can I resolve this should Architect or Solicitor that drew down mortgage not have noticed at foundation stage?Should I inform mortgage company that I simply don't have title for house that I got mortgage money for? Well, what is the farmer saying? Was it that farmer that gifted the land to you? In either case, talk to them, buy the 4m - it is about all you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, Carrerahill said: Well, what is the farmer saying? Was it that farmer that gifted the land to you? In either case, talk to them, buy the 4m - it is about all you can do. Buy more than the 4m. Buy enough to make a decent small garden on that side. At least wide enough (another 4m?) such that you can work on your house easily, and can guarantee privacy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland girl Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 I don't think he will be willing to just give it to me the 4 meters includes 2 bedrooms downstairs and a bedroom upstairs.So it is about 25% of my house. If the Farmer will not give me extra ground is there nothing he can do?So can I just sit here until he needs to give me title? Also does the Solicitor have no responsibility in making sure I had title correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland girl Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Buy more than the 4m. Buy enough to make a decent small garden on that side. At least wide enough (another 4m?) such that you can work on your house easily, and can guarantee privacy. Yes exactly I need more than just the ground that the house sits on. And as I don't have a completion certificate yet I am afraid that Farmer will go back to planning to point all this out. If as has been suggested I only need to offer low thousands that is not a bother. But I am not sure if he wouldn't think that he could chance his hand in land court after all he has something I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan 1 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Highland girl said: I don't think he will be willing to just give it to me the 4 meters includes 2 bedrooms downstairs and a bedroom upstairs.So it is about 25% of my house. If the Farmer will not give me extra ground is there nothing he can do?So can I just sit here until he needs to give me title? Also does the Solicitor have no responsibility in making sure I had title correct. Solicitor didn't set out your house or have any part or care where you put your house checking that was on you. The Architect may have some blame in not knowing that moving the house would put it off your plot but hard to say not knowing how he was engaged or what information he had. I'm afraid it seems to be on you unfortunately. The Farmer would have course for legal action if he so wanted to but assuming he gave you the site for free so is fairly close or related to you so I'd doubt that BUT no one will be able to buy it unless you own the ground your house sits on. Talk to the farmer blame your architect and see what you can agree you have no other option. If he gifted the site I can't see him wanting to stick his arm in at this stage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Blame is for later. Diplomacy and gentle talking is whats needed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland girl Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Architect set out site and set out house so he should have been aware. I was close to the Farmer when I received the site but unfortunately that ship has sailed a while ago! He is now aware of encroachment and has suggested that he will inform planners and has asked if mortgage company are aware.I have not offered money I have told him that it can simply be changed by him going to land Registry I would pay convancing. This has not gone down well. I assume as I am paying the mortgage they will not be concerned that I don't have title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 How long has it been there? You can hold out lack of likelihood of enforcement, and possibility of adverse possession as counter if necessary. But would need to mention in connection with an attractive carrot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland girl Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 It still has no completion certificate but build started 3 years ago. As my Solicitor has pointed this out to Farmer would I still be able to claim adverse possession after several years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 May be spend some time and money on counselling/mediation/conflict resolution with the farmer? Is there something you can put right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFDIY Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 27 minutes ago, Highland girl said: the 4 meters includes 2 bedrooms downstairs and a bedroom upstairs.So it is about 25% of my house. I'd be concerned. I hate to scaremonger, but you need to start talking to the land owner, I've heard of cases where an over hanging guttering has resulted in people loosing their entire house due to legal parasites and stubborn neighbours. If he wants £10k, snap his hand off, more likely it's worth £50k+ to get a amicable resolution of things maybe more. What is the house worth with that side of the house blocked off and being a semi-detached to a farmer's shed? I know I'm painting a bleak picture, but expect the worst and hope for the best outcome Good luck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland girl Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 No.But if he has no grounds for land court I will happily live in the house until he needs to give me title. From the advice I have had on here it looks as if Farmer can do nothing. I have a thick skin not being friendly won't worry me and it means I can't sell house to give ex half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland girl Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, JFDIY said: I'd be concerned. I hate to scaremonger, but you need to start talking to the land owner, I've heard of cases where an over hanging guttering has resulted in people loosing their entire house due to legal parasites and stubborn neighbours. If he wants £10k, snap his hand off, more likely it's worth £50k+ to get a amicable resolution of things maybe more. What is the house worth with that side of the house blocked off and being a semi-detached to a farmer's shed? I know I'm painting a bleak picture, but expect the worst and hope for the best outcome Good luck The house is worth about 400k in total maybe 300k without the bit on the end but people have said on here that it is unlikely that I would be asked to knock it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Highland girl said: I assume as I am paying the mortgage they will not be concerned that I don't have title. Err no. Their security is based on the assumption that should you default on repayment they can force a sale of the house. As soon as they get wind of this boundary error they will know the value of their asset has fallen greatly. When do you think the farmer became aware that your home was built beyond the boundary of the plot? I ask because one way to put pressure on the farmer would be to demonstrate that he allowed residential building on his farm land and that you are both guilty of a planning transgression and so have a mutual problem to solve. Edited February 3, 2021 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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