Front garden excavation for drive

[Bitpipe]

29 minutes ago, Margaret dailey said:

The builders ...  have decided to dig down 1m at the wall and 5ft out and then 2m down, fill with concrete then insert 6-ft 9inchx9inch RSJ and then fill ontop with concrete again. They will do this each corner of the house at the front and at two points in the Middle by the window

 

 

Will that be designed and signed off by an engineer with liability insurance?

 

Will it prevent the house moving if the front bank collapses in heavy rain?

 

Will the house insurer agree to that not invalidating the insurance?

 

If the house is still mortgaged, you will may need to inform them also.

[Declan52]

13 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

My 1863 terrace was built very similarly on just a widening of bricks as "footings".

Half of Belfast is sitting on sand. Not a drop of concrete to be seen. 

[ProDave]

42 minutes ago, Margaret dailey said:

The builders duck down today to check what type of Foundation is underneath the house and as you can see it goes down and comes out about 2 bricks so they have decided to dig down 1m at the wall and 5ft out and then 2m down, fill with concrete then insert 6-ft 9inchx9inch RSJ and then fill ontop with concrete again. They will do this each corner of the house at the front and at two points in the Middle by the window

DO NOT dig down ANY deeper there.

 

A lot of houses that pre date concrete were built like that on a brick foundation.  All that is underneath that is the earth.

 

And it is not very deep at all, so that REALLY means this project is going to be expensive and complicated.  You cannot just dig down deep and close to the house and expect it to stay standing.

 

I do not understand what your builder is proposing but I have very little confidence that it is a good plan.  You really need a structural engineer to design something proper, but I suspect it will blow your budget out of the water.

[Margaret dailey]

Hi,  they have already dug one metre down, as the picture shows.

 

They just need to dig 2 metres down in the same hole adjacent.

 

And there is no concrete base. Just two bricks coming out.

[Margaret dailey]

Yes i cant afford a se otherwise i would have.

 

The builder has ruled out digging as far back as i wanted it which was 5ft from window.  He has said minimum has to be at least 8ft maybe 10ft from window and then a 3 block concrete retaining wall with 4 pillars, and concrete between retaining wall and the remaining soil.

 

4 rsjs

  At least 6 foot. 

Square hole dug. Starting from house wall corner which is 1m at house side and goes out and deepens to 2m. 

 

Same both front corner sides.  One already almost dug out.

 

Two similar holes in centre of house outside bay window.

 

These holes will have concrete poured in and then have each rsj inserted into them and pushed into house as far as possible. And then concrete ontop. 

[ProDave]

25 minutes ago, Margaret dailey said:

Hi,  they have already dug one metre down, as the picture shows.

 

They just need to dig 2 metres down in the same hole adjacent.

 

And there is no concrete base. Just two bricks coming out.

No DO NOT dig 2 metres deep right next to the house wall.  Trouble lies ahead,.

 

I don't think it is sinking in what could happen.  The REAL risk of the house sinking,

[epsilonGreedy]

14 minutes ago, Margaret dailey said:

Hi,  they have already dug one metre down, as the picture shows.

 

They just need to dig 2 metres down in the same hole adjacent.

 

And there is no concrete base. Just two bricks coming out.

 

 

You should be concerned the builder started this project before establishing the house foundation details.

 

The costs are mounting up, I reckon £200 to £400 just to dispose of 20 tons of soil and now possibly £1000 of concrete.

[Jeremy Harris]

That looks like a pretty typical corbelled brick foundation, used to be common in Victorian houses, not so much in houses built later.

 

Underpinning the house doesn't resolve the structural requirements for the retaining wall, though, it is mandatory that any retaining structure that it higher than 1.2 metres is signed off by a structural engineer, even if that is included within the design from one of the interlocking concrete block companies.  If you don't do this, then you may well find that you nullify your house insurance.

 

The issue here is that your builder clearly is not a structural engineer, if he was he wouldn't be suggesting that underpinning the house foundations will magically make the retaining wall OK, it won't, it will have zero effect on the structural integrity of the retaining wall, that still has to be able to take the considerable surcharge load from the mass of the house.  The wall MUST (it is NOT optional) be properly designed and signed off, plus I suspect you may also need planning consent.  I appreciate you're trying to do this on a tight budget, but there is no way to avoid getting an SE involved, as the costs to you from having planning enforcement action, or losing the ability to insure the house, let alone the costs should the house start to suffer structural damage, are massively greater than the cost of a few hours of an SEs time.

 

This is one of the most terrifying disasters waiting to happen that I think I've ever seen.  Please, please just stop now, make things safe and get an opinion from someone that knows what they are talking about.

[Stones]

1 hour ago, Margaret dailey said:

The builders duck down today to check what type of Foundation is underneath the house and as you can see it goes down and comes out about 2 bricks so they have decided to dig down 1m at the wall and 5ft out and then 2m down, fill with concrete then insert 6-ft 9inchx9inch RSJ and then fill ontop with concrete again. They will do this each corner of the house at the front and at two points in the Middle by the window

 

You need to

STOP!   

NOW!

Everyone has told you this needs properly designed and signed off by a Structural Engineer. 

 

You may want to consider some of the other consequences;

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200128/building_control/38/building_regulations/3

 

 

 

[Sandybay]

Hi Margaret, 

I realise from reading your posts there are things you can't afford in this proposed project,  but you also CAN NOT AFFORD TO IGNORE THE ADVICE! 

If you do not go about this project correctly you will wish you had never thought of the idea.

[Margaret dailey]

Hi all.

 

Pro dave, he is not digging 2m on the wall side,  he has dug 1m on wall side and then will dig 2m down 5ft away from house.

[joe90]

This could well end up in the local news. DONT DO IT WITHOUT PROFESSIONAL  ADVICE.

[Margaret dailey]

I think im just going to give up. I thought with underpinning and concrete and not going as far back now will be ok but clearly wont be.  

[Ferdinand]

21 minutes ago, Margaret dailey said:

I think im just going to give up. I thought with underpinning and concrete and not going as far back now will be ok but clearly wont be.  

 

I would suggest having a look at parallel parking across the bottom of your garden.

 

You would need a dug out width of approx 2-3m, and the width if your garden (~18ft) is nearly as long as the recommended length of a streetside lengthways parking space.

 

You would need to check the Council's attitude, though.

 

And - as before - it will probably cost about £1000-1250 for a dropped kerb and pavement crossing.

 

Though - as I said and linked above - there may be a grant available if you talk to them.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Stones]

@Margaret dailey have you considered that spending on a Structural Engineer may well SAVE you money in designing something that works and is cost effective? One member here saved over £10k on his foundation cost due to an SE coming up with an alternative solution.

[Roundtuit]

As everyone has said, the risk is too great to do this half-ar$ed.  To do it as it needs to be done is not going to be cheap.  I like a challenge,  but if I neeed that parking space, to be honest, I'd be thinking about moving house rather than this project. Sorry it's not the quick-fix you were hoping for ?

[RandAbuild]

Margaret - I am horrified to see what your builder is doing. 'Pushing RSJs into the house as far as possible' is not underpinning, it is guesswork. All you will end up with is a lot of steel and concrete which will act as a further deadweight under the house the retaining wall would have to hold up. This may increase the chances of a collapse.

 

Looking back at your earlier photos of the house from the road, I can see the steps and path to your house themselves present quite a slope. With a physical disability, are you sure the house is suitable for your needs? It may be better to start thinking about finding a place that is more suitable which already has a parking space and level access. This would be both safer and cheaper in the longer run.

 

As others have said, I think you should not do anything further without taking advice from a structural engineer.

[Temp]

On 26/04/2020 at 19:54, Onoff said:

I've heard of instances where councils have fined people for being parked on the parking space they have created in front of their house because they have driven across the pavement where there is no approved dropped kerb.

 

+1

 

The important bit about an "Application for a dropped kerb" is that it gets you permission to drive over the pavement. The annoying bit is the cost of dropping the kerb.

 

Example..

https://www.tameside.gov.uk/kerbdropping

Quote

How much will it cost?

The cost depends on the area of the footpath used to access the driveway.

Please find below the vehicle crossing price chart.

A typical cost for a 5-kerb extension with a footway width not exceeding 2 metres (6 foot) would be £718.30. (Minus the quotation fee of £35.00)

 

Quote

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Temp

[Temp]

I'm a late to this thread but also horrified. I can only add my support to all the words of concern by others.

 

Pretty sure the under pinning work requires Building Control Approval. You as owner are ultimately responsible for getting that. Most reputable builders would tell you Building Control needed to be involved and factor the fee into their quote. Rogue builders won't mention it so their quote can be lower or they can pocket the fee.

 

Building Control are very likely to want you to hire a structural engineer to validate the design of the retaining wall. Personally I wouldn't dream of building a 12ft retaining wall without input from a structural engineer. 

 

Have you notified your house insurance company about the building work? That's usually a condition of the policy. If the work you are doing causes damage your policy is very unlikely to cover you if you didn't tell them about it. Underpinning is a particular red flag to insurance companies and can put up your annual premium. 

 

In addition to permission for a  a dropped kerb you might need Planning Permission. It's needed for the parking area if you just concrete it over without dealing with surface water run off. Eg rain falling on the concrete/paving must be collected and sent to a soakaway. You can't just let it run into the road, that's not allowed anymore.

 

The council have some powers to make you comply with legislation. In extreme cases they can do work for you and send you the bill. If you can't pay they can force you to sell assets such as your house to pay the bill. That doesn't happen often but your work risks damaging other houses not just your own so they might take a tough line.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Temp

[PeterW]

On 26/04/2020 at 13:40, Margaret dailey said:

a disabled parking spot is not an option outside so im not considering that at all.

Just returning to this, have you spoken to the

council traffic department as they do offer spaces 

 

 https://go.walsall.gov.uk/advisory_disabled_carriageway_markings_

[Ferdinand]

I think I've said everything I have on this subject - so best of luck Margaret.

[JanetE]

Should you decide to go ahead with any of this work and wish to sell your house sometime in the future you will find it virtually impossible. Any buyer's solicitor will require all documentation from Planning/Building Insp/Structural Eng to certify that it has been carried out correctly. Without this any sensible buyer will walk away. 

Another good reason to ditch this plan!