Extension quote a bit steep?

[pudding]

Hello,

 

I've had through a quote from our proposed builder last night for our extension. I'm pretty shocked at the price, and tbh unless we can cut these costs a lot we cant afford it. He said we can either go for fixed price, which I guess would be this quote, or cost plus and I pay as we go with his % added onto everything.

 

The extension is single storey, filling in an area between 2 existing walls of our home. Area is approx 40m². No plumbing, only electrics are a few sockets/lights, and a feed for an A2A heat pump for heating, although the electrical installation amount looks like just a small provisional amount and isn't a problem and doesn't include the A2A heat pump. There is planned a wildflower green roof on it. The BR plans are below for it.

 

 

 

The builders quote is as below:-

 

 

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AkHh6rqs0aKmn_wZAKkAOrqp1PT3Dw?e=hUO5Kr

 

I don't know if the builder has double counted labour in this quote, as in the preliminaries there is an amount for £18000 + £10800 for labour for the 12 weeks, but then for each item in the rest of the quote there is also a labour charge (adding up to £20469.50, giving total labour of just under £50k?!). Shouldn't it be one or the other or am I misunderstanding this? I've noted a few things that wont be needed, esp in the preliminaries ( the amount of which is the biggest shock!) which can be removed such as all the service connections we don't need or the build warranty i imagine. £18k also seems a lot to me for the ground works and slab, is it?

 

If anyone can see any glaring expensive items it would be appreciated. My current thinking is I'll ask if he can do the prelims/groundwork/structural, on a cost plus basis, and then i'll have to take over due to lack of funds after that.

[ProDave]

That's £3000 per square metre so yes I would say that is steep.  Time for a second or third quote?

[Russell griffiths]

Doesn’t that work out at £3,000 per m, must be one mighty flash extension. 

[pudding]

Yeah its £2500/sqm ex VAT or £3000/sqm with VAT. Thats the main reason I simply cant go with this fixed quote and would go with a cost-plus deal. I was expecting around £60k ish. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by pudding

[nod]

Just looked at your location 

May be a case off supply and demand 

It me be that his order book is very full 

and another just as capable builder may be coming to the end of there busy spell 

Though some of the rates look quite cheap While others don’t 

 

There should be someone along shortly with a copy of the builders bible 

Though most builders haven’t heard of Spons 

[Big Jimbo]

My gut says 65 to 70 K. Although plenty of good builders i know would be happy to be charging as per your quote.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Big Jimbo
Missed a bit

[Ralph]

We had some insane quotes, all delivered with a straight face. Go and get some more prices because that looks very pricey.

[AliG]

I think everyone can see the quote looks high.

 

It seems that consistently each figure is a bit higher than you would expect.

 

I know you don't need the £6200 of services listed, but Open Reach doesn't charge for a new phone line so where did £1200 come from. It is obviously an extension to an existing house so you have to wonder why this is even in the quote.

 

£400 + Vat for a skip, they cost less than £200 where I live.

 

Insulated plasterboard £35 a square metre, it only costs £20.

 

£900 a week for labourers, they get paid closer to £400 a week. The £28,800 of labour on top of labour for each item is bizarre. On my build a foreman was charged then labourers were charged out as part of the labour involved in specific jobs, not on top of that. What exactly would they be doing for 12 weeks. That number on its own is over £700 a square metre+VAT.

 

£80 a square metre for self levelling screed before finished floor fitting over the entire floor area is comical. It didn't even cost £10 a square metre in my house.

 

£2500 to decorate 40 square metres, come on.

 

Clearly a builder needs to mark up costs to make money, but many of these markups look very high indeed.

Edited March 3, 2020 by AliG

[PeterW]

He has had this done by an estimating firm - I recognise the format. 
 

Divide by two for a sensible quote. 

[pudding]

Thanks for all the replies. Yes, regarding the services I've no idea why they're there. He's been to our house a few times, and knows it doesn't need any new connections of anything. Is this something an estimating firm would just add in a quote as a matter of course? Decorating will most certainly be done by myself, especially considering the current 2 external walls of the house that will become internal don't want decorating, and the large wall in the main extensions room will be pretty much all glazing!

 

Who is the estimating firm do you think? Would the builder get that estimate back and then edit it, as some of the comments relate specifically to my house and things I've mentioned that an estimating firm wouldn't know to add in from the drawings and spec, like lifting the existing patio and relaying afterwards (despite the fact I told the builder I'd do this before they started!)

 

The only way forward seems to be paying for the cost-plus approach and then I'd at least get the see all of his invoices for materials etc before adding his 15% to each one.

Edited March 3, 2020 by pudding

[MJNewton]

8 hours ago, pudding said:

The only way forward seems to be paying for the cost-plus approach and then I'd at least get the see all of his invoices for materials etc before adding his 15% to each one.

 

Or look elsewhere...

 

I wouldn't be comfortable just changing the charging model given that this is someone who has seemingly shown little interest in offering you value for money.

Edited March 4, 2020 by MJNewton

[Ferdinand]

Clearly you need to triangulate the single quote you have.

 

OTOH you now have a detailed spec - can you get one of the online cost / QS services to give you a number as a target. They are not very expensive compared to the differences in quotes - a couple of hundreds iirc.

Ferdinand 

[Moonshine]

28 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Clearly you need to triangulate the single quote you have.

 

OTOH you now have a detailed spec - can you get one of the online cost / QS services to give you a number as a target. They are not very expensive compared to the differences in quotes - a couple of hundreds iirc.

Ferdinand 

 

I have recently used online estimators for a new build, bit it's £99 + vat for a extension, may be worth it for a sanity check.

 

https://www.estimators-online.com/pricelist#.Xl9UOx6nw0M

 

[Moonshine]

28 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Clearly you need to triangulate the single quote you have.

 

OTOH you now have a detailed spec - can you get one of the online cost / QS services to give you a number as a target. They are not very expensive compared to the differences in quotes - a couple of hundreds iirc.

Ferdinand 

 

I have recently used online estimators for a new build, bit it's £99 + vat for a extension, may be worth it for a sanity check.

 

https://www.estimators-online.com/pricelist#.Xl9UOx6nw0M

 

[pudding]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll get in touch with another friend who used to work for another local building company and ask about getting a quote from his old co. It's slightly awkward as this builder and quote is from my sis/bro-in-laws old schoolmate, who I've seen quite a few times socially, and he did their extension next door.

 

For that estimators link, which looks good, what docs do they need? Would it just be the 2 docs from the top of this post, the plans and sections from the SE? We don't have any architect drawings, just those.

[Russell griffiths]

8 minutes ago, pudding said:

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll get in touch with another friend who used to work for another local building company and ask about getting a quote from his old co. It's slightly awkward as this builder and quote is from my sis/bro-in-laws old schoolmate, who I've seen quite a few times socially, and he did their extension next door.

 

For that estimators link, which looks good, what docs do they need? Would it just be the 2 docs from the top of this post, the plans and sections from the SE? We don't have any architect drawings, just those.

Why is it awkward, do you want to pay £20-30,000 over so you can feel comfortable having a drink with them. 

You should keep business and social life separate, if you socialise with them I wouldn’t even have asked for a quote, i guarantee you will feel more awkward 4 months in when you start arguing over silly things. 

 

I would get two more quotes from completely different sources. 

[Ferdinand]

41 minutes ago, pudding said:

and he did their extension next door.

 

Does that mean you can get some numbers from that extension informally for a comparison, and then adjust for the time since and differences in your secret cell?

 

You don't necessarily have to tell them why.

Another data point.

 

F

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Ferdinand

[davidk]

Read this thread with interest, we’ve just went to tender with 3 different builders for our 35m2 extension.  Albeit we’re based in NI which I’m sure we’ve considerably cheaper labour rates but I’m still expecting quotes to come in higher than we originally expected. 

[Temp]

Certainly think he has double counted labour. When we built our house we had a similar crew, site foreman and two others. Those two others wern't the same two every day but we rarely had more than three people on site on average. For example I bet those two labourers will be the same two that take up the patio. Likewise when excavating the site foreman acted as banksman/lookout.

 

I suspect this is how he hides his profit. He's given what looks like a detailed breakdown but where is his profit :-) Im sure he's not aiming to break even.

 

Some things he's charging hire for I suspect he owns. How many builders don't have a site van and WC? Ours had his own telehandler. Ok so you don't get them free, I would expect him to charge for wear and tear rather than full rental value?

 

£550 to install two padstones?

 

Only 100mm PIR in the roof?

 

Get other quotes. Don't show them this one.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Temp

[davidk]

Thought I’d resurrect this one, we’ve just had 3 quotes in for our extension based in NI, 37m2 and they’ve all come in around £127k inc VAT which is substantially over our budget of £70k. Have to say they’ve disheartened us quite a bit as the research we had completed and along with the architect we felt it was achievable for the budget. 

[Temp]

Yikes. That's nearly £320 per square foot. Is there something complicated about it?

[davidk]

Nothing that we or the architect thought was overly complicated and it’s was deliberately specified to try and keep the costs down. It’s a flat EDPM roof wrap around extension giving us a small utility, new kitchen, moving boiler and living/dining room, quite a bit of glazing but that was coming in at £12.5k + VAT. We had budgeted @ £2000 pm2 including VAT and thought we’d be fine but obviously not. ?‍♂️

[Tennentslager]

DIY it David 

the forum will keep you right ?

[davidk]

@Tennentslager while I’m sure the combined consciousness of BH would definitely keep me right, knowing my limited DIY skills it could end up like the house that jack built. ??? 

 

We’re now considering the self project management route with main contractor and self appointed sub contractors but we’ve a good bit more work to do on that front to tie down costs

[Temp]

You mentioned it's a wrap around extension, presumably with some rooms knocked through into the extension. Are you knocking out the whole corner of the house?