ToughButterCup

Wetroom - Forget it Pal. Damn and blast it

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Why didn't I think this through earlier? The problem was staring me in the face.......

 

This is the cross section of our slab

section.thumb.JPG.79e2577731b65423a41d8e6083349911.JPG

 

You can see that the slab is 100mm thick. (Red elipse) It has some 193 mesh in it ...

And I had thought I could put this Wedi shower tray in.....

 

wedi.JPG.4aa43bc8fd0700c5ad19d7475c62865a.JPG

until  I decided I should maybe add 6+90+40 before I did anything else. So, its 136mm deep overall. 

 

This is the document that nudged my brain into something like coherant thought ....

techguidancewedi.JPG.79e06f3f1de00e00d300734a5515a3fa.JPG

 

Talked to the architect ... stumped as well.

I really really wanted a flat floor wetroom. Really. I'm stuffed now aren't I ?

As @Russell griffiths puts it so eloquently .... URGH FOOK FOOK FOOK.

Learning a new set of skills is bloody painful.

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So it means you have to cut into the EPS a little bit?

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Could you not raise the floor 40mm and put the step at the door threshold,  not ideal but..

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33 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Yes Dave, And thats not on.

Why not dig even more of the eps out and replace it with celotex?  Or raise the floor in the bathroom a bit. (you could lose that with a ramped threshold depending how much you need) 

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2 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Yes Dave, And thats not on.

Why?  As long as you reinstate the DPM that you will have cut to do so.

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Not one to give up easily, I found this .... Level Access showers - the kind of thing that gets put in to bathrooms when  the bath needs to be taken out. 

Does anyone have any experience of using them, or putting one in?

 

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2 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Not one to give up easily, I found this .... Level Access showers - the kind of thing that gets put in to bathrooms when  the bath needs to be taken out. 

Does anyone have any experience of using them, or putting one in?

 

Those rely (at least for retro fit) on those horrible half height doors and a shower curtain to keep water out of the rest of the room.  I don't see that solves your problem?  Your issue is the waste requiring too much depth. either seek out a shallower waste or accept you will have to cut into the EPS a bit.

 

This is the one I used  https://www.impeyshowers.com/wetroom-floor-formers/level-dec-easyfit-wetroom-floor-former/

 

Standard trap needs 97mm below the floor or 119mm from floor level (pre tiling level)

 

They also do a low profile waterless trap that only needs 76mm under the floor / 98mm from floor level (pre tiling)

 

Data sheet here https://www.impeyshowers.com/media/1875/aqua-dec-easyfit-technical-data-sheet.pdf

 

 

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I fail to see what that Neptune tray gives you avoiding any work that the Wedi involves...either way you've got to cut some concrete out.

Your dpm looks to me like its under the first 2 layers of eps so its 300 deep...you won't break the dpm.

Why is chopping some eps 'not on'....surely cutting the concrete is the PITA.

Where is your shower waste cast through your slab, and what size pipe

....is it in the exact spot you now want the tray waste to be?

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How about this...

 

You have 100mm slab and say 12mm for tiles and adhesive making 112mm usable without digging into the EPS.

 

Nearest I can get is a 35mm shower tray with a 75mm McAlpine trap making 110mm. However could/should set the tray 5mm higher than the floor so the door seal doesn't scrape making 105mm in the floor. 105mm < 112mm so it fit with height to spare.

 

You could even consider a 45mm tray.. 45+75-5=115mm.  Example Ideal Standard Simplicity.

 

I think the McAlpine trap is rated for 34L/min. It comes with a 45degree bend but you can replace that with a straight connector to help flow rates?

 

 

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There are also some steel shower trays you can let into a floor and these raise the waste because they are thinner than stone resin trays.

 

 

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4 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Not one to give up easily, I found this .... Level Access showers - the kind of thing that gets put in to bathrooms when  the bath needs to be taken out. 

Does anyone have any experience of using them, or putting one in?

 

If you fit that I will come up there and rip it out with my bare hands. 

Stop worrying and do it properly 

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On 15/01/2020 at 16:17, AnonymousBosch said:

Yes Dave, And thats not on.

Why not, that’s exactly what you would have done if you had of created a drop down in your slab before you poured it, you are just creating the drop down after the pour, abit backwards for a new build, but exactly what you would do for a Reno. 

 

Have you not thought of forming your sloped section like @Onoff did by hand with some shutters as a guide. 

 

I will I’ll be leaving 3 lower sections in my floor and hand forming the trays ready to tank. 

It really isn’t very hard. 

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1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

If you fit that I will come up there and rip it out with my bare hands. 

Stop worrying and do it properly 


 I’ll come and help you ... 

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I hand formed my screed as well. It's really not hard because screed is so stiff. Just messed about with a level and a float. You'll be amazed what a decent Tiler can get over

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Form it, you know you want to...

 

 

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You'll be fine cutting into the EPS for the shower waste.  That's exactly what I provided for on my passive slab for a wet room. i did post on this subject on e-build a few years ago but don't have a copy of that post to share. So, i have provided details again

 

I made provision for a wet room in the Ground Floor WC, though at the present, the shower former has not installed and it tiled over.  I checked all this with the SE (Hedley Tanner) and the cutout in the foundation slab was formed with EPS before the slab was poured - see attachments. 

 

The plan was to install an ACO shower former and the shower drain at some time in the future, when required.  We just have to remove the existing tiles and temporary EPS, rearrange the existing posh cloakroom into a wet room and lay a new tile floor with  the former and drain . The waste drain will be installed in the top level of the EPS - really no different to the various conduits installed in the EPS for the kitchen island electrics.

P1040607.JPG

1528-01 Foundation Plan- REV A.pdf Eastcroft Aco Wetroom gully 2.pdf

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15 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

...

Have you not thought of forming your sloped section like @Onoff did by hand with some shutters as a guide. 

...

Yes. 

13 hours ago, Onoff said:

Form it, you know you want to...

 

Want.

That easy word. Yes, I want to. Lying in bed, cat purring, warm, comfortable, second piece of toast - I want to and I imagine I could. 

Then the Devil whispers in my ear -

 

Form it, Form it, you know you could.

 

In my minds eye I can just see Jeremy Harris , head in hands, groaning softIy.

" Optimism Bias "

 

Tell ya wot. I'll chew on this today, and post later. After an hour in the gym. Sod it.

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The Geberit wall drain instructions said to achieve a 1 to 2% fall. In my case I think it was 13 to 26mm. I was really worried that you might notice this underfoot as you crossed the corner of the wet room and over balance when old/doddery/drunk to get to the basin.

 

I'll get the laser level out a bit later and see exactly what it came out as, a feeling maybe 1.5%?

 

With hindsight I'd have aimed at 2% from the off as you really don't notice it.

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Forming falls is easier if you do one or two sections at a time and let it go off before you do the infill. 
 

You can make simple formers that slope to from the edge of the opening to the edge of the grate, and then fill this with a strong concrete mix. Use the formers to scrape the section to the correct slope. 
 

 Wait 24 hours for it to go off and strike the formers, mix up another mix and fill the remaining sections. As long as it’s within 5mm the tile adhesive will fill any holes. 

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If you don't feel confident making your own formwork for the falls you could use Impey Aqua Grade system. Although they are a couple hundred ££ and you are limited to their sizes and waste position.

 

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@AnonymousBosch

I see 900mm as one dimension, what size wet area are you allowing? 
900x900 is a very small area if you aren’t intending on fitting a screen / cubicle of any sort. 
As far as your other woes, I don’t really see this being much of an issue unless there’s something I’m missing.....

Diamond Wetrooms do a reasonably priced 900x900 wetroom former which is cheap enough, and GRP so no issue with mosaic ( Wedi products can compress when applying point pressure on small mosaic ) and require little in the way of accuracy of the underlying works as you can bond them down into wet adhesive to set them level prior to fixing down firmly with mechanical fixings. 
I’d recommend a 1200mm or 1500mm area if you’re going to all this effort.


143599A6-FA7A-4D42-9E54-29C70EE6F6A8.thumb.png.5f21cfbde92264573606a9ac28fd0ed9.png
 

£258 for that 1250 square. 
 

Hire a concrete grinder to remove 30mm of existing floor area to accept the perimeter of the tray and happy days. 
 

“You can do it, Deeds” 😉

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