Just about to start the first fix electrics

[Triassic]

The electrician is about to start the first fix electrics. Has anyone got any suggestions? Must do, don’t do, best brands of equipment, best places to purchase electrical gear,  lighting, do’s and donuts, network cabling, TV aerial, do I even need one given we are around 40miles from the transmitter. 

[AliG]

Put as many hall light switches in as you can and make sure you put can control the lights from the other floor.

 

Put extra bedroom light switches next to the beds.

 

Use PIR sensors in bathrooms, utility rooms etc and don't bother with switches in these rooms.

 

Put a supply to the front door for the bell.

 

Do you actually have a full electrical plan? You should try and think as much as possible everywhere you may want a TV, lamp etc so you don't have cables all over the place.

 

I would put at least one cat 6 cable everywhere you want a TV, 2 if you want to use satellite boxes. You then need a central point that you wire in your broadband, TV etc to and distribute it around the house.

 

I spend more time on the electrical plan than almost anything else in the house and still made mistakes.

 

 

 

 

[Bitpipe]

Also allow CAT6 for internet radios, printers, PV controllers, streaming units, network storage - basically anything that requires internet but does not move. Frees up wifi bandwidth for genuinely mobile devices.

 

Consider a 5a lamp circuit in each room, switchable with the other light controls - enables you to have controllable 'soft' lighting in evenings. In bedrooms, 5a should be switchable from bed and door.

 

If you have a nice wall mounted TV, plan for sockets and data / antenna directlt behind it to avoid trailing cables + ducting for cabling to other devices (dvd etc)

 

Audio cables in wall for surround sound systems?

 

Door bell / external cameras / etc?

 

And yes, unless you're planning and old school tv antenna on-top of your flat screen tv, you'll need antenna + signal booster in loft and distribution to rooms with TVs.

[ProDave]

Lighting.  2 way or more switching of HALL light as well as landing.

 

My preferred make of switches and sockets is Scholmore Click Mode

 

Run socket cables horizontally around the room from socket to socket, with a bit of slack, then if you decide you need an extra socket later it is easy to add.

[andyscotland]

5 minutes ago, AliG said:

Put extra bedroom light switches next to the beds.

 

Also extra sockets.

 

And if there's any possibility a bedroom might get rearranged in future, I would put the bedroom lights on wireless switches so you can more easily move them to be next to the head of wherever the bed gets shifted to.

 

Once stayed in a B&B where, lying in bed with the room light on you were staring across at a pair of lightswitches either side of the dresser thinking wouldn't it be handy if they were on this wall!

 

Similarly, sockets on every wall at least in the bedroom.

 

Don't have downlights in the bedroom, ceiling or wall wash is much nicer.

 

Make sure you have supplies to the bathroom counter/cabinet/mirror for shavers, toothbrushes etc.

 

Put sockets and Cat6 in all your cupboards, never know where you're going to end up wanting to put a charger/audio controller/WiFi repeater/smart device. Likewise the attic/eaves space if you have one.

 

If you have a porch (or even a hall) with some glazing an inside light connected to the outside PIR with a slight time delay is a nice touch - welcoming, bit more light to find your keys, saves finding the inside light after you open the door and as it looks like someone's coming to the door can be a good deterrent.

 

Don't forget about socket(s) in sensible locations on the drive & in the garden.

[Mr Punter]

Be aware if they price for the CAT 5 or 6 per point as it can get really expensive.  The cable is v. cheap and you could always run it yourself.  Run all to one point, same with TV. Don't bother with phone sockets - you can just use the CAT 5 / 6 and use an adaptor. Have a light near the barbecue, switched from indoors.  For under counter kitchen appliances, have a socket under the plinth on flexible cable as most appliances have a plug fitted.

[Triassic]

Thanks for all the great comments, lots to think about.

 

I’m in the lucky position that I’ve got a tame electrician who will let me do most of the laborious cable pulling and he’ll do the technical bits.

 

Anyone got any input around the wiring/control of the Sunamp and Solar panels/inverter?

[Triassic]

On 10/10/2019 at 10:52, Triassic said:

Anyone got any input around the wiring/control of the Sunamp and Solar panels/inverter?

Anyone?

[willbish]

This post might have what you are looking for 

 

 

[Triassic]

Has anyone used a lighting designer? 
 

We have cathedral ceilings in four rooms and we’re struggling to understand how to light the space.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Triassic

[Nickfromwales]

On 11/10/2019 at 14:08, Triassic said:

Anyone?

Sorry, I'm late to this party  

For the SA you only need a 13a ( 3kW ) immersion supply. So a 20a MCB / RCBO in the CU, then a length of 2.5mm2 T&E to a 13a switched fused spur ( with neon so you know it's got juice going to it ) and you're done.

If employing PV diversion I fit the My Energy Eddi units. With those you will need to split the feed to give the SA controller a permanent supply, via a second fused spur tee'd of the aforementioned one, with a 3a fuse, and then the Eddi sporadically throws pockets of energy at the SA as and when they become available ( from the sun popping its head up here and there ).

You will only fully recharge the SA from PV if there is enough excess generation in every 24 hr period, so a bit of trial and error will ensue. Boosting of the grid will be required for the leaner times of the year. The Eddi will entertain boost, or you can fit an additional 3rd party device / manual boost to suit. 

[Jeremy Harris]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Sorry, I'm late to this party  

For the SA you only need a 13a ( 3kW ) immersion supply. So a 20a MCB / RCBO in the CU, then a length of 2.5mm2 T&E to a 13a switched fused spur ( with neon so you know it's got juice going to it ) and you're done.

If employing PV diversion I fit the My Energy Eddi units. With those you will need to split the feed to give the SA controller a permanent supply, via a second fused spur tee'd of the aforementioned one, with a 3a fuse, and then the Eddi sporadically throws pockets of energy at the SA as and when they become available ( from the sun popping its head up here and there ).

You will only fully recharge the SA from PV if there is enough excess generation in every 24 hr period, so a bit of trial and error will ensue. Boosting of the grid will be required for the leaner times of the year. The Eddi will entertain boost, or you can fit an additional 3rd party device / manual boost to suit. 

 

 

Sorry, but it's not safe to run the Sunamp heating element from a 13 A FCU.  That fuse is going to run damned hot, as it's always likely to be overloaded. 

 

Personally I'd never, ever, wire either a Sunamp heater supply or an immersion with a 13 A FCU.  Mine is wired to a 20 A DP isolator, with an illuminated switch, and that is wired to a radial in the CU with a 20 A RCBO.  The same radial has an FCU fitted with a 3 A fuse for the controller supply.

 

The calculations that matter here are the average and worst case estimate of the supply current.  3 kW at a nominal 230 VAC gives a current of 13.04 A.  The heater resistance will be approximately 17.64 ohms.  If the voltage were to rise to 240 VAC, the current would rise to ~ 13.6 A, and if the supply voltage was to rise to the maximum allowable, of 253 VAC, then the current would increase to ~ 14.34 A.

 

This may not be enough to blow the fuse, but it will make the fuse run very hot, and it is an inherently unsafe installation.

[Dreadnaught]

2 hours ago, Triassic said:

Has anyone used a lighting designer? 

 

@lizzie did. Have the name of her designer if you'd like it. I suspect that she won't mind me sending it on.

[Nickfromwales]

I've seen countless immersions on copper tanks etc over the years that are running off FCU's, and many have been in for donkeys years. I'm not a fan of a 20a supply feeding an immersion circuit, and would go to 16a max in most cases. The majority of issues come from poor quality hardware or poor connections, and the use of bootlace Ferrules in all that we do mitigates against such issues. 

To get to 253v you would need to be in a densely populated area with a lot of the occupants generating with PV, so not really relative as that would apply to everything consuming electricity at that time. If anything the grid often drops below not above the permissible voltage.

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Triassic said:

Has anyone used a lighting designer? 

All you need is a good electrician / electrical contractor and this type of consideration will be in-built. I cannot believe the amount that some folk pay for such services!! 

Understandable in commercial applications, but a bit OTT for the average domestic client AFAIC. On my current electrical projects I have helped the clients with their lighting design to a point where their architects have commented that the end result is something they're very impressed by, both executed and proposed.

Some other instance I've seen have been just ugly, and impractical, with a huge expected overspend on dimming packs / scene setting and more.

[Adrian Walker]

On 10/10/2019 at 08:30, ProDave said:

Lighting.  2 way or more switching of HALL light as well as landing.

 

My preferred make of switches and sockets is Scholmore Click Mode

 

Run socket cables horizontally around the room from socket to socket, with a bit of slack, then if you decide you need an extra socket later it is easy to add.

 

 

I love Scholmore  - https://www.scolmore.com/products/mode/

[Triassic]

Has anyone viewed any good YouTube videos (or supplier videos) on lighting design? It may help me get my head round the subject!

[ToughButterCup]

No.

But I have a couple of very useful books: I'll dig out them out and post here later this morning.

[Bitpipe]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

All you need is a good electrician / electrical contractor and this type of consideration will be in-built. I cannot believe the amount that some folk pay for such services!! 

Understandable in commercial applications, but a bit OTT for the average domestic client AFAIC. On my current electrical projects I have helped the clients with their lighting design to a point where their architects have commented that the end result is something they're very impressed by, both executed and proposed.

Some other instance I've seen have been just ugly, and impractical, with a huge expected overspend on dimming packs / scene setting and more.

 

100% agree with this - our electrician came up with a simple but flexible design that has worked well. Basically a mix of dimmable LED ceiling spots, some up lighters & pendants in specific areas (breakfast bar, dining table) & lots of wall switchable 5a lamp sockets.

 

In other parts of the house we used LED strip behind a diffuser for attic room lighting, under banister lighting and other tricky spots.

 

Same electrician also designed our basement wall layout as it had been an open box in construction and he needed to get on with speccing the electrics. We liked his sketch so much we just handed it to the joiner to frame out

 

[joth]

So at what point did you start talking to the electrician about this? It seems fairly late in the scheme that you normally get an electrician really involved but I'd like to have had the lighting design done much earlier, to ensure our assumed room layouts will work well with it and so on. 

(Complication is I want to use the main contractor's preferred sparky, but until main contractor is signed up there's no much way of having that conversation)

[Bitpipe]

Before first fix started for sure , he'd priced up a estimate based on a marked up version of the planning drawings showing light & socket locations.

 

When the frame was up, he marked up all the socket / data / switch locations on site with tape and pen and we did a final walk around to see what worked wrt likely furniture & door positions. That's when we added things like duct for wall hanging TV etc..

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I've seen countless immersions on copper tanks etc over the years that are running off FCU's, and many have been in for donkeys years. I'm not a fan of a 20a supply feeding an immersion circuit, and would go to 16a max in most cases. The majority of issues come from poor quality hardware or poor connections, and the use of bootlace Ferrules in all that we do mitigates against such issues. 

To get to 253v you would need to be in a densely populated area with a lot of the occupants generating with PV, so not really relative as that would apply to everything consuming electricity at that time. If anything the grid often drops below not above the permissible voltage.

 

 

Still not right, or compliant with the regs though.  You can argue all you like, but putting over 13 A through a 13 A fuse for a few hours will make it run hot.  It's fundamentally unacceptable to overload a connection like this.

 

The reason that it used to be OK to get away with doing this is that immersion heaters were often rated at our old mains voltage, of 240 VAC, although any newer one may well be rated at our current nominal mains voltage of 230 VAC.  A 240 VAC rated 3 kW immersion will draw ~12.5 A at 240 VAC, and ~ 13.17 A at the max grid voltage of 253 VAC, so only slightly over the spec, but still unacceptable.

[ProDave]

+1  I have seen many many 13A FCU's that have got hot, scorched and ultimately cracked by running with a long term high current load. Just dont do it.

[Ed Davies]

11 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

To get to 253v you would need to be in a densely populated area with a lot of the occupants generating with PV,

 

Or in a rural area, on the end of a long bit of wet string, with just yourself generating quite a few kW. Remember, 253 V is less than 5.5% over 240 V which is what a lot of the distribution network taps are still set to.

[Jeremy Harris]

11 minutes ago, Ed Davies said:

 

Or in a rural area, on the end of a long bit of wet string, with just yourself generating quite a few kW. Remember, 253 V is less than 5.5% over 240 V which is what a lot of the distribution network taps are still set to.

 

 

Yes, happens to us a fair bit in summer.  We're at the end of a few hundred metres of wire, and have a normal supply voltage of around 245 VAC or so, with no PV generation.  The two of us on the end of this wire both have PV arrays, ours is 6.25 kWp and our neighbours is 3.6 kWp.  The display on our inverter quite often shows over 250 VAC, and the inverter will sometimes start to limit output with the display reading 253 VAC.

 

I've been trying to get the DNO to drop a couple of taps on the transformer for ages, but they just aren't interested.  I'm getting to the point where I'm going to insist that they fit a voltage logger to the supply, so they can see for themselves that we are consistently well above the nominal supply voltage.