What ya building.

[Russell griffiths]

A friend of mine came to the house yesterday and asked me about self builds and was very surprised when I said a lot of new builds where timber frame. 

 

Is it possible to do a poll to to see what construction method people have used. 

 

Would it it be possible for one of the mods to set this up as a poll. 

 

 

Im building with ICF, what you doing. 

 

Any chance mods, I know your not that busy. 

 

Cheers russ. 

 

Yea someone did it for me, cheers mods, has given me a warm fuzzy feeling after a rather stressful afternoon. ??

Edited October 2, 2019 by Russell griffiths

[nod]

I suspect most self builds will be TF

More  expensive But more convenient 

[ToughButterCup]

28 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

[...]

Any chance mods, I know your not that busy. 

 

Cheers russ. 

 

I'll set the ball rolling and see what the  Mod team thinks.....

Ian

[ProDave]

I have added a poll.  If there are any build methods I did not include let us know and we can add them.

[epsilonGreedy]

I can already predict the result will be inaccurate by a huge margin because the forum's culture is self selecting.

 

Last year one of the self build magazines discussed this subject of construction method popularity. Yes self builders choose timber frame at a much higher ratio than the mainstream industry but it is still a minority compared to brick & block.

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

I can already predict the result will be inaccurate by a huge margin because the forum's culture is self selecting.

 

 

No sure I understand the rationale behind this observation.  This forum is open to all, and is managed by a group of volunteers that try their best to make it as open and unbiased as possible.

 

Looking at the original foundation group that put this place together, there seems to be a fair mix of build methods, a fair few have used ICF, a fair few have used timber frame, some have used block and brick and some aren't self-builders.  The current forum management group has a few more block and brick and ICF members than the original group, I think.

 

I'd be interested to understand more about your impression that there is "forum culture", as I'm at a bit of a loss to understand what that is.  Looking back at popular threads over the past few weeks, we seem to have a pretty broad range of topics being discussed, with the most popular relating to renovation or extension work to existing homes, using various different construction methods, rather than new builds.

[ToughButterCup]

49 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

I can already predict the result will be inaccurate by a huge margin because the forum's culture is self selecting.

[...]

 

You are exactly correct. Self builders choose to self-build. This  is not an attempt to draw wider conclusions from an  limited population of  people mad enough to build their own house(s)

All statistics are produced with an end-in-mind. Here, I think all thats required is a general indication - among ourselves - of which build system is in use. 

The poll will be a precisely accurate reflection of the group of people who chose to ;

• search for and find Build Hub
• become members,
• read the post and
• take part in the survey

Every participant in the poll will understand that - non members may not. We are not trying to Lie with Satistics . 

[jack]

1 hour ago, epsilonGreedy said:

I can already predict the result will be inaccurate by a huge margin because the forum's culture is self selecting.

 

Reply deleted - pointless escalation on my part.

[Ralph]

Any point in differentiating Timber Frame from SIPs?

[epsilonGreedy]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

No sure I understand the rationale behind this observation.

 

 

Let's try defining a self builder:

Quote

 

A individual or couple who create a new home to be used as their own long-term residence. This endeavour would typically include two or more of the following, searching for a plot, designing a property, choosing a build method, selecting a main builder or commissioning individual trades and/or using ones own labour to create the building fabric. During this period it is unlikely the selfbuilder will contribute less than 10 hours per week to the project in hands-on activity or planning.

 

 

Based on that definition, the people who find this forum useful are a subset of the population of self builders. From my own small sample I reckon 30% of self builds are done by building trade pro's who would not consider using this forum. These people are predominantly brick & block builders. Further down the ability ladder the brick & block self builders have less need for a forum because there is much less to debate re. the options for brick & block.

 

I get why inexperienced people chose TF, for them it is a rational decision that eliminates much risk. Inevitably the forum is more attractive to such people. Then there is the Scottish factor where TF dominates. Scotland accounts for 8% of the UK population but more like +20% of forum activity.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by epsilonGreedy

[Conor]

Interesting results so far. If this was an exclusively Irish based website and audience, the result would be more like 80% block/brick cavity, 10% TF with block skin, 5% ICf, 5% others. Geography and existing build cultures are significant.

[epsilonGreedy]

3 hours ago, JSHarris said:

I'd be interested to understand more about your impression that there is "forum culture", as I'm at a bit of a loss to understand what that is. 

 

 

My recollection of the magazine article is that 90% of developer homes are brick & block and that figure drops to 70% in the self build sector.

 

The latest poll results above puts brick & block at 12%. There must be a cultural factor behind such a discrepancy.

Edited October 2, 2019 by epsilonGreedy

[LA3222]

Should timber frame be further broken down?  

[Ralph]

New Build Timber Frame Rates 2016 According to the Structural Timber Association
UK          28.4%
England      22.8%
Scotland      83.0%
Wales          30.7%
Northern Ireland 17.4%

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

My recollection of the magazine article is that 90% of developer homes are brick & block and that figure drops to 70% in the self build sector.

 

The latest poll results above put brick & block at 12%. There must be a cultural factor behind such a discrepancy.

 

 

How representative is any self-build magazine, though?

 

Back around 2008, when we first started thinking about self-build, I subscribed to (I think) three of the self-build magazines.  Over the course of the first year or so researching building in general (not specifically self-build, more the different options and technologies available) I came to realise that much of the content of the self-build magazines was promotional, and sponsored, directly or indirectly, by some of the major players in the building industry.  It was also clear that much of the content was aimed at those who aspired to a fairly high-end home, yet the prices in the guides seemed extraordinarily low for such a home.

 

I've come to the view that many of the self-build magazines, at least those that were around ten years ago when I last looked at one, were a bit like Grand Designs, or the other TV house building shows.  They didn't really represent the broad cross section of self-build, just an attractive-looking subset that looked good in a glossy magazine.  A bit like GD, many of the nice photo's showed features that would never have been passed by building control, too (stairs seem to be a favourite).  There's nothing wrong with this, after all, those magazines, just like the TV shows, are designed to sell and make a profit for their publishers, first and foremost, and I suspect that most people who buy them don't ever undertake a self build themselves.

 

Might be an idea to see how many here are avid readers of self-build magazines, or how many are like us, and felt a bit disillusioned by them after a short time.

[vivienz]

I got fed up with all the self build magazines pretty quickly. Stuffed full of ads and promotion, as J says. Even the supposed case studies were often houses of architects or property developers seeking to promote their business and/or sell the house they had recently built.

[AdamSee]

Is there a option for "I'm making a mess.....Slowly"?

[Cambs]

4 minutes ago, vivienz said:

I got fed up with all the self build magazines pretty quickly. Stuffed full of ads and promotion, as J says. Even the supposed case studies were often houses of architects or property developers seeking to promote their business and/or sell the house they had recently built.

 

I've read these on and off for years - picking them up as I have been starting a build.  They've definitely got worse, in my opinion, over the last few years.  They've become much more about interior design and less about the actual build processes and people's experiences of it.  They're now filled with  articles which feature things like £5,000 baths and other extravagances.  Bringing it back on topic,  I really like Passive House Plus magazine. It's got great detail on build methods in each case study, detailing construction methods from inside to out as well as all of the components used in the build.

[Conor]

Will second what @Cambs says about P+ mag. Only one that features builds that are actually representative. Then again, articles one apartment blocks and hotels are a bit meaningless to the average self builder... It is an industry mag after all. Rest of self build mags just recycle the same old "look at me" stuff.

[Construction Channel]

IMHO there are 2 issues with brick and block if you are not house bashing for a profit. 

 

1- it takes a while to get good enough to lay face brickwork at any sort of speed. Which means you need to employ bricklayers. 

 

2- apart from having to have a huge cavity to get a decent u value. You will be expecting the aforementioned brickies to put in your insulation to a good standard.

 

Its different for block and block as both faces will eventually get covered with something so the finish is less critical and could possibly be taken on by an amature if they have the time and basic level of skill

[epsilonGreedy]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

How representative is any self-build magazine, though?

 

 

Not good, as others have mentioned their editorial leans towards pandering to their advertisers. However this only reinforces the point I am making. Last year I mentioned that 3 brickies in tatty transit van do not have an advertising budget. They create the majority of self builds from cheap commodity components that also do not have much magazine interest of marketing. TF homes are a designed manufactured product promoted by national brand names with marketing muscle.

 

Magazines and enthusiast internet forums create a distorted view of the self build market against brick & block.

 

Re. the build-method market percentages I read in a magazine last year, they were I hope the result of minimal journalistic effort to reveal true industry figures. The few adverts placed by Hanson/Celcon could not force the magazines to promote a basic lie about the predominance of brick & block.

Edited October 2, 2019 by epsilonGreedy

[PeterW]

2 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

I get why inexperienced people chose TF, for them it is a rational decision that eliminates much risk. Inevitably the forum is more attractive to such people.

 

So why are you building brick and block..? 

 

2 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

My recollection of the magazine article is that 90% of developer homes are brick & block and that figure drops to 70% in the self build sector.

 

MMC (Modern Methods of Construction) is taking off in the industry and it was above 20% in 2018 and heading higher for 2019. Barratt and Persimmon in 2018 invested a significant amount in offsite panelised systems.

 

This from the NHBC Foundation makes interesting reading - https://www.nhbcfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/NF82.pdf

 

 

 

[jack]

Everyone.

 

We can't poll the wider self-build community, so this is by definition a poll for BuildHub members to see what building system they're using.

 

What big builders, non-members and the wider self-build community may or may not do is irrelevant. Please consider that before posting.

[epsilonGreedy]

12 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So why are you building brick and block..? 

 

 

Because:

1. I disliked the upfront costs with engineered foundations. I am frequently astonished at the £50k sums spent just to get to DPC when MMCs are used.
2. I must use specific facing bricks in my village location which limits MMC options.
3. At the end of the day I would not be content imagining my timber frame being slowly digested by microbes in our British climate particularly at my damp plot.
4. I believe that climate alarmism is 90% political fraud hence I feel no moral compulsion to pursue eco concepts.
5. Brick & block tolerates a slow ££ burn mortgage-free approach to self build whereas most MMCs need to be weather tight before subject to a full winter.
6. Brick & block is compatible with an endeveavour to do as much hands-on as possible starting with very little competence at the outset. 

[epsilonGreedy]

3 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

The poll will be a precisely accurate reflection of the group of people who chose to ;

• search for and find Build Hub
• become members,
• read the post and
• take part in the survey

Every participant in the poll will understand that - non members may not. We are not trying to Lie with Satistics . 

 

 

It has become a thread about internal polling but it was originally a thread about advice given to the OP's friend regarding the popularity of self build methods of construction.