Annker

I am starting a large victorian renovation and it will involve, (amongst everything else) installation of an entirely new heating and plumbing system. Plumbing, like most trades, seems to have two main aspects; design and installation. The installation part on my last two projects was painful. The plumbers seemed happy to work to a wider tolerance that I'd deem acceptable. I had to repeatedly check and correct the setting out of 1st fix & associated ware positions. I seemed to spend much time overseeing a supposid specialist trade and in frustration I frequently said to myself I could do this myself! Clearly I wouldn't have the knowledge or speed of an experienced plumber, but being a carpenter by trade and therefore well experienced "on the tools" I believe I'd have the dexterity to install a large amount of plumbing/heating system. Perhaps then enlist a plumber on a day rate for soldering, final connections, etc. Currently I don't have the knowledge to design the system. I see a lot of commentor's on this sub-forum design their own systems. Perhaps it's something I could design if there was a suitable "design your own" resource. From reading various threads here I have a basic idea of some very general specifics for the system but clearly this is far from a working design: The house is Victorian with solid brick external walls. I won't install EWI, neither IWI due to the risk of interstitial condensation so I'm not chasing thermal efficiency with the refurbishment works. In such situation I understand that a gas fired CH system with radiators to be the most suitable Pipework in Hep20 or similar to facilitate a simpler install All F&R to radiators on individual loops from a manifold Domestic feeds similarly from a manifold My rear facing roof surfaces are perfectly orientated to capture sun rays so I would like to instal solar panels although I have no idea how these will be integrated into the MEP system I believe the house will be far from airtight so no MVHR but I've worked on large scale projects where the MEP system is designed by specialist MEP consulting engineers but does anyone know if there are smaller MEP engineers that design the plumbing & heating system for domestic projects and if this is a common procurement route for a self-builder? Has anyone had a design drawn up this way? Maybe someone can recommend an designer.

Yes correct. When I twist the stopcock key fully down there is still water running from the tap, similarly when I flush the toilet I can see the meter running which also indicates the stopcock is not fully shutdown. I believe this could be that the gate in the stopcock doesn't fully shut. It is probably not enough of a flow to completely prevent me making on the new MDPE connection, but as you well know these "5 minute jobs" always take an hour and then by that time I'm up to my elbows in water🤿

@saveasteadingI am not sure if you or I understand the other correctly, I don't believe there is a leak currently. I have only just bought the house so I'm not entirely sure if the current flow/pressure is sufficient other than it isn't particularly strong; however given the current plumbing systems age, likely its not configured efficiently and therefore producing low pressure at the tap. @TonyTYeah, I will do this. I have a pressure gauge attachment so those too metrics would be useful. I will have to do a bit of rooting to find a outlet directly on the main pressure to get a correct reading.

I'm at the beginning of a big renovation project. One of my first tasks is to prepare a carpark for the arrival of tradesmen so I'm getting affected buried services upgraded now, save reopening ground down the line. Existing water supply pipe is 1" lead which I am going to replace with MDPE. South East Water have confirmed I can work on customers side of the meter and even better once the job is complete I can send on the associated invoices incurred, to which they will credit back to my SE Water account to the value of £250. I think that's reasonable offer myself! I have excavated customer side of the meter box chamber and it appears that the supply from the meter is 20mm MDPE which is then compression fitted on to the 1" lead. As in the photo below its not obvious how the MDPE supply connects to the meter as it appears that the 20mm MDPE pass by the box chamber and out towards the road. All I can think is that the MDPE loops back on itself and connects to the underside of the meter. I'm not sure if that arrangement is possible, it seems torturous but seemingly it must take that kind of route. Just to note that the meter is not bypassed; flush the toilet and the meter records it. Is 20mm MDPE supply from the meter sufficient for a large 4 bed property (4 ensuites, downstair loo, and all the other standard requirements)? Before I had unearthed the 20mm I had it in my head that I would replace the 1" lead with 32mm MDPE, however if the supply immediately exiting the meter is only 20mm surely that will limit the flow gains a 32mm diameter pipe would offer? I also note that the mains stopcock in the meter box chamber doesn't completely shut off the supply. I wonder if I could raised that as an issue with SE water and then perhaps they would kindly replace the stopcock and as the path is open allow me to remove the couple of foot of 20mm allowing me to connect a new 32mm MDPE to the meter?

Thats a good idea, and one that I never thought of myself for some reason. Have you experienced many building supply companies refuse credit card payment?

Hello all, not entirely sure which sub-forum to post this in, many questions to answer but I thought this neck of the forum may be best! I have recently bought a large victorian semi-d in need of significant renovation work. I bought the house with ~60% LTV mortgage and the initial plan was to renovate the property to continue its life as a single dwelling house.However since purchasing my conversations with colleagues, estate agents and my own ongoing assessments of the property (I work in construction) is directing me to consider the potential of converting the property into 2x (potentially 3x) self contained 3 bed flats. For context I have extensive construction work experience in both new build and renovation works in both small scale and large scale development, however I have not much experience in, say the administration, of such a residential conversation project. I imagine the first steps are to put together a basic appraisal of the project and therefore I'm trying to list the big ticket items that will determine if this scheme is feasible: How will my current residential mortgage lender (HSBC) view my plans. I have called the broker who arranged my mortgage and he is going to make enquiries with my lender to ask if they would allow the scheme. He said its likely I'll have to refinance. That cost allone may put a stop to the scheme Determining the likelihood of obtaining Planning Permission for the scheme I am fairly confident that PP would be granted as the attached neighbouring property as converted to flats as is the property on the other side. Determine if there Is a market for converted flats I had a brief conversation with the EA we purchased the property from and he said he has a few investors who are looking to buy such a scheme in its entirety so there are buyers in the market at least Financial appraisal. Even if the conditions above are met obviously the numbers still need to stack. I believe I can cost a regular renovation quite accurately however with little experience of flat conversions I'm trying to think of the big expenses that are particular to this type of project: Splitting the existing single household utility supplies to serve 2x or 3x self contained units, I imagine this will be a costly but for the scheme it would be necessary expense Fire safety/regulations Acoustic performance/regulations Anyway I would greatly appreciate if any group members can advise on any of the items above, give my pointers, additional items to add to the list, or indeed any offer their experience if they have undertaken a similar scheme: Thanks for reading!

True Nick. In anticipation of this, at plastering stage I mark out down/up light positions so the plasterer is well aware his finish will be literally under the spotlight at those locations. But I have to disagree with you regarding the acceptable standard. A plastered finish should be a near perfect finish, it really shouldn't require any filling & sanding. The general commercial procedure on large residential projects is that a sum is retained from the plastering/drylining package until the mist coat has been applied and the plastering/drylining contractor has QC's their finish. Once the finish is accepted the retained sum is released. It is generally agreed that any surface repair up to the size of a 2 pence piece is included the the painters making good allowance; but scrim tape/beads showing through the surface etc would be the responsibility of the Dryliner to refill over.

How about making up the 175mm with further insulation? I imagine you'd need to check if dimensional compression would be an issue at that thickness, but certainly would be cost effective labour wise.

One concern I'd have is that removal of the existing joist deck could take away any lateral restraint they are providing the wall on which they bear. In my situation I want to raise the floor levels of some rooms above ~340mm above their existing level. So the procedure I would use would be to firstly install/fix the replacement joist deck prior to removal of the existing joist deck. I believe you will be reinstalling the new floor at the same level as the existing, therefore you wouldn't be able to do that, but I think you should think about installing some manner of temporary shoring bracing until the new joist desk can provide it.

Hi Crowbar, did yo go ahead with replacing all the joists? I have an upcoming project where I am considering doing the same.

I believe merchants are going to have a think long and hard about any price increases in 2023. Demand from both domestic and commercial builders will be a fraction of the levels of recent years. Any material buyer in '23 will certainly find good value if they look for it.

Hello all, I hope to have a fairly big renovation/extension project coming up next year (currently negotiating a house purchase). I work in construction and think that Site logistic are always one of the more challenging and stressful hurdles to overcome on a project. I will be doing a lot of the work myself and I'm considering buying a caged tipper truck for the project. I would like to know if any other self builder has bough one for their own project? Site access is not the best as the property entrance is on a relatively busy road. There is driveway parking for say 3 or 4 cars however there is no road parking outstand the house. Concrete deliveries, skips etc are going to cause unavoidable traffic headaches but I thought if I had a tipper I could at least reduced these. There are numerous building material yards near the property and having the tipper would provide great availably to pick up materials in required qualities as and when required and drive straight onsite with them. Also I think a caged tipper could be a good alternative to a skip for waste disposal. I understand a waste disposal transport license is required but again, it would offer great flexibility and remove the stress of getting skip wagons on/off site. If there was road side parking available I think the caged tipper would provide an even use. Not alone would it replace the need of a skip but also eliminate the hassle of obtaining a skip license. Anyway would really appreciate to hear you opinion on above and indeed if you encountered challenging site logistics how you overcame them.

For the sake of a few extra lengths of metal I'd recommend to go 400 c/c with regardless of using 12.5mm or 15mm pb. Hangers for the main support channel (used to support tophat sections) are at 1200 c/c and FYI the spec states that 1st hanger can be positioned at 1200 c/c (i.e. no hanger is required at the start adjacent to the wall) however I always used to put a hanger at the start despite a friend's advice (who was professional fixer) insisting it was not necessary! Another useful tip for any MF work is when connecting two metal components together that a much more robust connection is made if screws are driven from the lighter gauge metal into the heavier gauge metal, if that makes sense. For example, with the MF system this means that screws are driven into the lighter gauge hangers to the heavier gauge main support channel and not visa verse.

Hi there @MortarThePointinterested to hear how your ceiling metalwork installation went. I'm a carpenter by trade myself but have done quiet a few suspended ceiling installs however (wrt metalwork) I have only ever used the MF ceiling system (top-hat supported by a main support channel if that makes sense to you). I wasn't aware that the gypliner system could be used for ceilings. How did it work out for you, I would have though it requires more fixings and therefore drilling into the concrete soffit which is the more unpleasant part of the job!

Hi there @BartWjust interested to hear how you finished this, I would have been able to provide some suggestions had I seen your post before now! Too late to flag this now for you at least however this may benefit other readers: the white staining on your slates is due to them getting wet, and remaining wet, while still in bundles. These slates must be kept bone dry until they are fixed in place.

The architect has drawn/described a bastard of an arch. It looks like a flat arch, its also part segmented but described as "gauged" which is probably the only thing it is not, as joints in gauged brickwork ~3mm-6mm Anorak-time, as a poster previously said the voussoirs (read soldiers) were traditional made from "rubbers", softer brick which would be rubbed down to achieve the required dimension of each individual voussoirs in the arch. Thin wooden templates call face moulds would be fashioned from a full scale drawing to provide a pattern of the required shape to rub the voiussior down to,

Yes understand what you mean, certainly a solid wall in one house may have an entirely different composition than a solid wall in other house, and even different sections of the same solid wall could have a varying composition. However the thrust of these articles were more so that recent study's show that the modelling typically underestimates the thermal performance of solid walls in general.

I believe there is a lot going for this approach, one of the biggest selling points is its much easier to ensure the finished article is right, and the original design of the house (period features) are similarly easily maintained in their original position. However for me the most appealing feature is that interstitial condensation risk is minimised. It would be interesting to be certain of the true heat loss from uninsulated walls, I say this as I've read recent articles which claim that heat loss modelling software does not accurately model heat loss through solid walls. Perhaps we should query research regarding the need of insulation for companies selling insulation! Not looking to set a conspiracy theory here but perhaps for solid walls throwing insulation isn't the answer. 😃

I really do like the theory of the warm batten approach but I am apprehensive about the practical application of getting in right in a refurbishment setting given that you likely need to fitted around numerous insite elements. The other issue I have with it is the wall build out thickness. Although I'm in SE England where space is a premium and the reduction in floor area in some already small rooms is not ideal. However perhaps that isn't such an issue for your particular house. But I think you have correctly identified the key principles: meticulous fitting of the VCL warm side and ensure maximum breathability of the existing brick wall; do everything possible to stop warm moist domestic air moving from inside to brickwork wall, failing that ensure said moisture can leave brickwork wall unhindered.

@jayc89Im interested to hear if you settled on a IWI build up detail yet? I hopefully (buying a victorian house atm) have a similar project coming up, where EWI is not an option. With IWI It seems to be a challenge to find the balance between achieving a warm house but avoiding the risk of Interstitial condensation. I'm wondering if an alternative solution is forget about installing any wall insulation and instead reallocate that part of the budget to further upgrade the insulation in the roof and floors, heating system, external windows and doors?

Interested to know how you got on with this issue?

@JamesP Well done. I'm a carpenter myself and did a bit of curved work over the past year. Doing it to a high standard separates the men from the boys!

@JamesP That ceiling looks well done. How did they get on with bending the ply to the curve that cant have been easy, did you use flexi-ply?

On a recent project part of the building had a dropped DPC level. The client wanted the bellcast at a common level all around the building and render below DPC as typical. So we installed the bellcast detail at the higher DPC and then introduced a movement joint over the portion of the DPC that was at the lower and therefore exposed level. Weber approved of this arrangement. The movement joint achieves separation of above/below renders however what is absent is the protection that a projecting bellcast provides above the DPC. The bellcast is essentially a drip detail and I'm not sure how that can be acheived where the render above/below DPC is set at a common thickness.

Yes you can take the render all the way to the ground but as Prodave says the issue would be that the render material bridges the horizontal DPC. Therefore you need to introduce a horizontal movement joist at DPC level that will separate below DPC render form the above DPC render. Something similar to below would work.