BotusBuild

CLS untreated? CLS Vac treated? CLS Tanalised? Something else?

I have seen this argument before quite a few times. I think this is based on messaging from the woodcrete manufacturers (designed to "scare"). The question I always ask is, how do you get to the top of the wall to pour the concrete? Surely some scaffolding is required. So, OK, no bracing, but you've got to put scaffold up. Now read on.... I used Nudura (EPS) with the Nudura bracing - this bracing includes a platform level (you have to put scaffold planks on it of course). We did it DIY. The first floor took myself and my wife 5 days to put it all up ready to pour. I'm not against woodcrete, it works for some, but personally I do find the "EPS needs bracing" to be a null argument. Hope this helps

No such thing as a bad question ? I think it will have to be something like CT1

Yes, as per design from waterproofing company.

@markc, at this point, what is supporting the floor? The screed would end up with holes in it, or things stuck in it.

Russell - I'd end up with an unsupported floor span of nearly 12m following that method. I think the risk would be too high even for me to take ?

You're missing a detail that I missed out in the OP ? Apologies. The new waterproofing scheme dictates: On top of the existing concrete foundation slab a layer of waterproof cementitious slurry, a screed layer in order to form a drainage channel around the exterior of the floors, then a drainage membrane on top of that, on top of which will sit the stud walls @Conor - see above to your question "Why this way?"

Thanks, but as I said to Ian above, not sure how an SE will help

@Conor - thanks for reminding me they are called stud walls (and not partition panels as in my original post - it was written after a bad day at work and my brain was skewered)

Sort of similar, but at some point I have to pour the 50mm screed and the stud walls need to sit on that (in the final configuration)

Thicko question and maybe I have missed something - how is an SE going to provide advice on how to build it? The problem I have is not to do with how strong it needs to be (I have all that info already), it is with the change of waterproofing system and how that impacts on how to construct.

Any comments?

As you may have seen from my blogs, we are progressing well and getting ready for second floor of Nudura ICF construction, but we've hit a snag. I am looking for a sanity check and/or suggestions for alternative approach. Normally, at this stage, the floor joists and sheet flooring would go in, then the ICF can be put in place with the bracing for this floor being in place on the newly installed wood sheet floor. This was our plan, until my original waterproofing scheme was rejected and we have a new one that demands a 50mm screed be poured onto which the internal stud walls that support the floor joists will rest. The screed pouring companies say they will not pour until the house is weathertight (roof, walls, windows), but I can't achieve that until my second floor walls are in place. Got the picture? I am in a chicken and egg situation. So the plan I have come up with is: construct the partition wall frames that are necessary to support the joists and floor that I need to support the bracing for the second floor Nudura build-up, packing those partition panels out to keep the floor level-ish while we work. (note the frames, joists and floor sheeting will be the actual final items) Once the Nudura walls are up and concrete poured, we can then get the roof on, any window openings can be temporarily sealed Remove floor that needs to be removed to allow... screed poured and other waterproofing items completed Floor re-installed permanently I know that installing, removing and re-installing sounds crazy, but the joists will be there anyway, and I have to make the partition frames anyway. Any other suggestions I should consider (apart from wringing the neck of the person who came up the original waterproofing plan)?

Totally agree - exactly how I am proceeding

I know this is quite late. Putting it here for future reference. I ended up using two companies: the first was CM Hill near Exeter, who supplied the pump and men, and then they used another concrete company - they poured the foundation. the second was Plymcrete, who have their own pump and insist on using their own concrete, but I saw this as a plus, and was very impressed. Used them for pouring ICF walls. They have a limited radius in which they work.

Seems a sound product, but looking at the prices of those there is still addition ££££ to other roof hooks. Something for the OP to consider mentioning to the people who quoted though.

You have to drill though the slates to use these. Slates (older ones in particular) are VERY fragile, and can crack very easily. Many installers are not patient enough and end up cracking so many slates that then have to be replaced (££££). And if they are patient enough it takes them longer to install (££££) - see @SteamyTea's comment about providing a silly quote to avoid getting the job ?

Yes, and it is a PITA - hence the extra £1,000 cost on the OP's quote I should think

Agreed - missed the 3-phase bit

They are correct because slate tends to be more fragile than the "cement" tiles when it comes to cutting for the brackets to be fitted (don't let anyone fit by screwing through the tiles!!). A good installer will cut nice clean slots in the slates and use flashing to ensure the brackets sit as flush as possible and the tiles then remain flush to each other - difficult to explain without seeing good and poor examples

I looked at both EPS and woodcrete based alternatives. I went for Nudura in the end. Here is a link to the story of my first floor build done back in November by SWMBO and I after one day's onsite help from the local Nudura distributors. Would definitely use it again. Try to design and build to the dimensions of the materials if you can (to avoid cutting and hence wastage)

I think it all depends on which "professional" you speak to as to what they want. ?

We left you with a poured slab and we were chomping at the bit to get the ground floor Nudura walls up before the end of the year. Well, I am glad to report we got there - almost ? After getting the slab done, I figured I'd get ahead a bit and it would be a good idea to talk to someone about the waterproofing we would have to put on the outside the walls before we started backfilling. To cut a long story short using waterproof concrete in walls such as these is a complete non-starter, so Type-B waterproofing cannot be used. Visqueen's R400 Radon barrier is not an effective waterproofing method and so we now face having to use a Type A and a Type C waterproofing method - basically this will mean for us a waterproof screed being added to the floor with channel ducting where the walls meet the floor and the "egg-crate" plastic material across the screed and up the inside of the walls. That should eat into our contingency ? ? ? But also it meant a dash to get some waterproof slurry to paint round where the Nudura blocks would be laid the following morning and mixing and painting it on under floodlights (it's the dark grey stuff in the picture to the right). Oh what fun!! But, the following day we were up early to welcome out walls, the bracing and two fine chaps (Louie and Harry) from The Fell Partnership who would be helping us Day 1 to get the first row in place. We then scurried around unloading things off trailers and flat beds, and installing the waterbar between those pieces of upright rebar. By 10am we were ready to go. By about 2pm we had most of the first row in and part of the second row (see below). If it hadn't been for some non-standard corners in the design, we would probably have been at Row 3, but that's what you get for following a design religiously ✝️ (FYI - the T-corner is all to do with the design - don't ask yet) On the second day we were left to our own devices, I had to make a dash to collect some extra Nudura parts and some waterproofing equipment (due to the direction our waterproofing system now had to take) so we made a later start but still we were very pleased to get up to 4 rows installed. Day 3 we were ready to begin installing all the bracing system, and after hitting her head SWMBO was made to wear the Christmas present from her children. and on Day 4 it inevitably rained in Cornwall ? , but before our help arrived again we had managed to just squeeze a block on to Row 6 (the final row before the first pour of concrete) After the help on Day 4, we continued to finish things off on Day 5 by constructing part of an internal load bearing wall, and a wall with the only window opening at this level which will be for the family bathroom. FYI - the rest of that side of the house will consist mainly of windows into bedrooms plus some extra small sections of walling (to be determined) Where we were not able to complete things before the pour happened (time didn't allow) was where the internal wall meets the external wall and there are two doorways to construct (this is why I said we almost made it). I will have to do these in the New Year, mixing and pouring the concrete by hand (just under 1 cubic m) so that'll burn off the Christmas pudding ? A week later (during which we had some more high winds) I came back down to finalise a few bits (like lack of scaffold planks and bracing in some places) to be greeted by a snaky ? wall. so that was all straightened up, the rest of the bracing fitted, and the Nudura joist hangers inserted. (Between straightening and the pour we had Storm Barra, but my remedial work held up nicely) I won't bore you with pictures of hunky men doing manly stuff with concrete pumps etc. but suffice to say it all went very well, with no leaks or blow outs so "he who shall not be named from Channel 4" would have been very disappointed if he was allowed onsite. And so, last weekend (after a midweek pour in the remnants of Storm Barra) I was able to deconstruct the bracing and we are now the proud owners of some freestanding, high-wind-proof walls. Really happy at the attention to detail that Louie and Harry paid to ensuring the walls were straight and true before the pour began - right up my street. So now we have a tidyish site again (for a short while) ready for steels installation in the New Year. We have to finish off the internal wall, then waterproof and backfill outside, and install joists and flooring before we can continue with building the upper floor walls. We're hoping that by middle of next year we can start on those upper floor walls. So until 2022, and the inevitable next lockdown, I wish you all a very Merry Christmas ? and a Happy New Year ?

I'm recording everything (bar the initial land purchase - £190k), including the power tools I am having to replace along the way, or invest in to help me build the house. FYI - total cost so far is £82,000 - we have foundations in, and first floor concrete pour into Nudura tomorrow (yes I have checked with the concrete pouring company in relation to Storm Barra)

I saw something similar - the kid picked up mum's bottle of wine and took it away. Fair play to the mother - she smiled, paid and left.