ProDave Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Who is going to be the first so submit to a Fishcher salesperson, in order to find out the price of their unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, ProDave said: Who is going to be the first so submit to a Fishcher salesperson, in order to find out the price of their unit? It would be interesting to have a guinea pig to test their pricing etc, but you'd probably need a strong constitution, and be prepared to waste a few hours of your life, to tolerate it, I expect. If I had to guess, then I'd say they most probably use the double glazing sales approach, with pushy sales people who refuse to leave until they've got your signature on an order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I reckon I could stomach it for a while ...!! May give them a call ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 £100 discount for requesting a brochure ? be quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Afaiac it's a case of shoot first ask Christian Slater, but it's only fair to point out the TrustPilot reviews which appear positive. Of course it could be there's a lot of punters taken in by the spiel who haven't yet had big bill's! https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.fischerfutureheat.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, Onoff said: Afaiac it's a case of shoot first ask Christian Slater, but it's only fair to point out the TrustPilot reviews which appear positive. Of course it could be there's a lot of punters taken in by the spiel who haven't yet had big bill's! https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.fischerfutureheat.com Or is it like a certain check trade type site that deletes bad reviews? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, Onoff said: Afaiac it's a case of shoot first ask Christian Slater, but it's only fair to point out the TrustPilot reviews which appear positive. Of course it could be there's a lot of punters taken in by the spiel who haven't yet had big bill's! https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.fischerfutureheat.com If you read the earlier links, it does say that someone was told an engineer would be quicker to fix a fault if they removed their negative feedback on trustpilot ..!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 23 minutes ago, ProDave said: Or is it like a certain check trade type site that deletes bad reviews? Did seem a bit overly positive hence my scepticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, PeterW said: If you read the earlier links, it does say that someone was told an engineer would be quicker to fix a fault if they removed their negative feedback on trustpilot ..!! In fairness it’s not just the less reputable companies that manipulate Trustpilot (and other review sites). As an example; I had absolutely appalling service from my local Richer Sounds in Exeter and after numerous unanswered complaints to the store and two unanswered emails to their HO I left a negative review on Trustpilot. TaDa! Within 24h I had a customer service manager make contact with me and resolved the issue, then throwing me the bone of a £30 voucher. All fine I thought but disappointed that it took a negative review online to get them to fix the issue. Then the the next step; I was hounded by the same guy (by phone and email) to delete my review. I refused to do so stating that my complaint was valid. I said I was only prepared to update my review but would be very honest in my appraisal. This didn’t seem to tick his box! Roll forward another couple of weeks and I received direct contact from Trustpilot saying that Richer Sounds had reported my review as “false and without any evidence of purchase” (which happened not to be true as I had included my order number in the hidden part of the review and ticked yes they could contact me). As a result I was advised that if I didn’t upload written proof of my purchase to Trustpilot my review would be removed. So yet more faff, find the receipt, scan and upload with my inside leg measurements. Eventually my review was allowed to stand. It was bloody clear that the process was designed to make people go “oh sod it, I can’t be bothered” and let the review be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 There's an old adage: "Follow the money...." Review sites are funded by advertising in the main, and their advertisers are the very companies that are being reviewed. Are they likely to be impartial? As heck as like! It's a bit like trying to discuss the negative health impact of burning stuff in stoves to heat homes on a certain "green" (what a joke that is) forum that is sponsored by wood burning stove manufacturers... There's a very good reason that the founding members of this forum have a pretty rigid stance when it comes to remaining free from commercial influence, and relying on volunteers to run the forum and donations from forum members to keep things running. It's to try and ensure that views expressed here are a fair representation of the views of members, free from any commercial influence or bias. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinP Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > Who is going to be the first so submit to a Fishcher salesperson, in order to find out the price of their unit? Well... Fischer quoted £1600 for their 1.1kW stoage heaters... and you will be offered up to 45% discount... and that their engineer (read: independent contractor) knew nothing about Sunamp.... (and yes Fischer heaters look identical to Thermotec / Elektrorad Aeroflow ones ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Reading this and other Sunamp threads, one could be tempted to conclude that Fischer's customer support may be carp, but at least they have customer support ? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinP Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Lets see if I can get prices for aquafficient UniQ models from their customer support that keeps calling me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 How long does the 'commissioning' take, so once the pipes and cables are in place and the commissioning company comes to connect it all up and get it going. Also, what did you all pay for this stage if you went down this route? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Roz said: How long does the 'commissioning' take, so once the pipes and cables are in place and the commissioning company comes to connect it all up and get it going. About 20 minutes .... @Nickfromwales can give you a more accurate estimate but it’s seriously not that difficult ..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, Roz said: How long does the 'commissioning' take, so once the pipes and cables are in place and the commissioning company comes to connect it all up and get it going. Also, what did you all pay for this stage if you went down this route? I've installed two of these, a Sunamp PV (essentially the same as far as connections go) and a Sunamp Uniq eHW 9. The hardest part by far is transporting the UniQ to its final resting place. Our 9 kWh model weighs around 155kg, so although it's not that big it should be a multi-person handling job (I struggled a lot, but got it upstairs and installed on my own - never again). Plumbing is dead easy for the electrically heated models, just a mains cold water pipe in and a hot water pipe out (both 22mm). The indirectly heated models (heated by a boiler) need four pipes connecting, a flow and return to the boiler indirect circuit and the same cold water in and hot water out as the electric units. Electrically, there is a control box that has a sensor cable that runs from the UniQ to screw terminals in the box. There are two basic versions of the control box (with some variations) and the electrically heated models need an always on low power mains power feed to the box, a high power feed (if using a PV diverter to heat water from excess PV generation this comes from the PV diverter unit, Immersun, Apollo or whatever) and a cable out to the electric heating element in the unit. For the non-electrically heated models then the control box only has low power mains, plus control connections to call for heat from the boiler, etc. Commissioning is really just turning on the water (plus filling the boiler loop for boiler heated models) and checking for leaks. Turning the power on and checking that the control box internal status indicators are OK, then letting the unit charge up for a time and checking that it's delivering hot water. Maybe half an hour of work plus another hour or two waiting for the unit to charge to test the hot water. Doesn't take any special skills, I'm not a plumber and found the things dead easy to connect up, commission and test. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 hours ago, PeterW said: About 20 minutes .... @Nickfromwales can give you a more accurate estimate but it’s seriously not that difficult ..! Depending on the electrical and wet connections being all complete, commissioning ( eg switching it on ) is down to flicking a switch. The unit will have to have been ordered according to the intended application, ergo the control unit will come pre-selected to the correct 'setting', so it's very much plug and play. Sizing, and selecting the correct 'model' is where the attention needs to be, as many have fallen foul of licking their finger and waving it in the air in the days ( now gone, thankfully ) where Sunamp would sell direct to the public........ 20 minutes is actually more like an hour, per size increment, where you'd need to stay with the unit until it heated fully for the first time. eg a size 6 unit would require babysitting for the first 2 or so hours ( 3kW required for ~2 hours = 6kW input = fully charged from 'empty' ) so you know it runs the heating cycle and 'knocks off' as it should. Plumbing connections should be checked after the unit has fully heated up, as sometimes weeps start after the pipes heat up and expand a little. 4 hours ago, JSHarris said: Plumbing is dead easy for the electrically heated models, just a mains cold water pipe in and a hot water pipe out (both 22mm). There are 2 heat exchangers in each UniQ heat battery, so 2x pairs of 22mm connections. If you are using an UniQ for hot water only, you need to parallel the heat exchangers so water flows through both. This not only maintains the 2 HeX's in a wet environment ( copper would corrode a lot faster if left dry as it would suffer from condensation if open to atmosphere, and it would also ebb heat away wastefully ) but then, if paralleled, you'd benefit from a far greater flow rate for DHW too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: There are 2 heat exchangers in each UniQ heat battery, so 2x pairs of 22mm connections. If you are using an UniQ for hot water only, you need to parallel the heat exchangers so water flows through both. This not only maintains the 2 HeX's in a wet environment ( copper would corrode a lot faster if left dry as it would suffer from condensation if open to atmosphere, and it would also ebb heat away wastefully ) but then, if paralleled, you'd benefit from a far greater flow rate for DHW too. FWIW, I did indeed follow the MIs and connect both heat exchangers inside the UniQ in parallel. On the house side there was still only a single 22mm cold water in and 22mm hot water out, though, not the tangle of pipework that some hot water systems seem to need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 indeed, far less complex than an UVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 11 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: 3kW required for ~2 hours = 6kW input 6 kWh input Sorry, pedantic I know, but it's no wonder so many are confused on this subject when even the professionals who know better are sloppy about it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinP Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 So Fischer Future Heat tells me now that: For my house 4bed/2bath I need Aquafficient 210L model (which is made by Sunamp, but is NOT UniQ model 9, obviously) - but they were not that concerned what type of boiler I might already have there. The list price for it (installed, VAT included, 10yr warranty ) is £5561, but there's amazing 25% off which results in £4170. And 0% APR over 60 months if you like... So pretty much twice the price - but with customer service... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Ed Davies said: 6 kWh input Sorry, pedantic I know, but it's no wonder so many are confused on this subject when even the professionals who know better are sloppy about it. Well tbf the system does require 6kW of POWER input or 6kWh of ENERGY. He clearly meant power... +1 on the pedantic bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, MartinP said: So Fischer Future Heat tells me now that: For my house 4bed/2bath I need Aquafficient 210L model (which is made by Sunamp, but is NOT UniQ model 9, obviously) - but they were not that concerned what type of boiler I might already have there. The list price for it (installed, VAT included, 10yr warranty ) is £5561, but there's amazing 25% off which results in £4170. And 0% APR over 60 months if you like... So pretty much twice the price - but with customer service... That is absolutely ludicrous!!! At the very most, installation might cost around £400 to £500, but frankly I'd have thought closer to around £250 to £300 would normally be the case (half a day's work plus some pipe, fittings and a run of cable). The "25% off" is just classic double-glazing sales technique, and isn't real at all, given the greater than 100% markup on the discounted price anyway. I'm all for people being in business to make a fair profit, but this seems to be just a massive rip-off. Sure the Sunamp UniQ is a good product, and now that the glitches in the controller and sensors seem to have ironed out it does work very well indeed. Whether it works well enough to be priced way, way above an unvented cylinder is very questionable, though. I'd say that, for the majority of people this sort of price makes it very poor value, as the small energy saving made from the lower standing loss is likely to never be recovered through life from the higher price. At a guess, our's saves us maybe 1 kWh/day in reduced loss, and that saving is only real outside the heating season, when the heat loss isn't beneficial to heating the house. For most of the time the Sunamp is heated by excess PV generation outside the heating season, so is "free", but if I assume that we didn't have PV, then that 1 kWh/day for around 240 days is worth between £20/year (assuming E7 tariff) and £36/year (assuming peak rate tariff). If we assume a life for the unit of 20 years then the saving will be between £400 and £720 at today's prices. That doesn't begin to cover the higher capital cost over installing a UVC. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 There goes my idealistic dream.........back to the drawing board ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, Onoff said: Well tbf the system does require 6kW of POWER input or 6kWh of ENERGY. He clearly meant power.. No, the system requires 3 kW of POWER input, so 6 kWh of ENERGY over two hours. He clearly meant energy. It's really not that difficult but I do wish we used MJ (megajoules) rather than kWh as they do seem to confuse people a lot. (1 kWh = 3.6 MJ). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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