Contractor welfare - site caravan?

[DreamHouseDreamer]

It has been suggested to us - all all costing research agrees with this - that rather than hire a posh welfare unit, it would be way cheaper to buy a second hand caravan of some kind and make that available to all site workers.

 

We do not need a portaloo as we have addressed that separately.  They don't seem to be expensive and having somebody else take responsibility for cleaning and restocking one seems to be the easiest option for this.

 

However, we need somewhere dry for any site worker to have a tea/coffee break, somewhere for them to sit down and eat their sarnies.  We also need some where that is lockable for overnight storage of power tools.  We can already see a need of somewhere dry where they can recharge power tools and their phones!

 

Within a couple of weeks, when site is cleared and actual building demolition commences, they will have no access to electricity, but we have figured out a possible way of connecting any caravan or similar unit to power.   Water supply for the moment has been sorted.  We would want to prevent use/access to any onboard loo, and water source like shower, basin, kitchen sink, even if these are already fitted.

 

Where do we source such a unit?  Any guidelines to minimum size or other criteria I should consider?

 

I've looked so far at Craigslist and Friday ads.

 

Thank you,

DHDreamer

 

[epsilonGreedy]

6 minutes ago, DreamHouseDreamer said:

However, we need somewhere dry for any site worker to have a tea/coffee break, somewhere for them to sit down and eat their sarnies.  We also need some where that is lockable for overnight storage of power tools.  We can already see a need of somewhere dry where they can recharge power tools and their phones!

 

 

They seem content sitting in the familiar surroundings of their white van cabs. 

[PeterW]

16 minutes ago, DreamHouseDreamer said:

However, we need somewhere dry for any site worker to have a tea/coffee break, somewhere for them to sit down and eat their sarnies.  We also need some where that is lockable for overnight storage of power tools.

 

A cheap shed. With a heater, a kettle and some chairs. 

 

Who’s tools are being stored ..? If they are yours then they may be insured but only if locked away properly. You will need either a VanVault or similar otherwise the insurers will not cover them. 

 

If it is contractor tools then they are not your liability and you can’t insure them unless you have hired them in. 

[Jeremy Harris]

I just informed everyone that worked on site, in writing, that I wouldn't take any responsibility at all for tools left on site.  Our insurance only had limited cover for theft, and I just didn't want the hassle of having to deal with any claim for stolen tools, especially as it's a relatively common problem on building sites.

[DreamHouseDreamer]

Thank you all for the replies so far.

 

The trouble with a shed is it still needs a reasonable quality, flat and level base to sit one, and that may be more expensive than the shed itself or the caravan.  We will need a new shed at some point, but we cannot figure out where to site it and until the foundation excavation work starts and we see how much beyond the actual position of the new building it will spread, it's tricky to work out where to site one.  Most cheap sheds do not fare well if you try to move them!

 

It's not our own tools that would be stored, but contractor equipment and tools.  I had not considered the insurance issue, will need to address that.  Thanks for mentioning this; must go read the relevant fine print of the site insurance.   Yes, theft from buildings sites is a well know issue, I just hope that as our site is not (yet?) easy to spot from any roads, this will help reduce the number of passing opportunists.

 

DHDreamer

[ProDave]

A cheap old touring caravan would be a solution. I might have just such a 'van for sale soon but it is still in use for storage.

 

Like others I advised the toilet in our old house was available, but most just went behind a tree for a pee.

[Jeremy Harris]

Our ground works contractor was on site for about 6 weeks, and he just brought his own small steel container.  Not sure what size it was, but it had been reinforced with welded on steel bars and multiple locks, and looked to be one that he just moved from site to site on his truck.

[PeterW]

A cheap shed is easily made sturdy with a couple of panels of OSB screwed to the inside. 

 

If you make a bench of 3x2 down one side you can put storage boxes and boots etc under it, and it really makes the shed stronger. 

 

Last one I bought was 8x6, door on the side not the end and was used by 3 comfortably - easily moved if you put it on skids of 6x2.  

[Declan52]

A couple of scaffold planks will get you a flat enough base. 

[Thedreamer]

Most of our guys just sit in their van for breaks and bring a thermo flask.

 

We also have a couple of chairs in the storage container.

 

At the start we mention they are welcome to use the toilet in our house but most do a jimmy riddle behind a tree.  I've seen a number of portaloo blown over here, don't fancy being responsible for that.

 

 

 

 

 

[nod]

Speaking from exsperience 

Most will eat on the go Or perhaps take 15 minutes sat in there van 

The problem with supplying a hut or van Is that it will become pretty rough quite quickly Unless you keep it clean As the trades won’t 

I wouldn’t leave any power tools onsite Yours or there’s 

If you supply temporary power or a genorator You will be doing more than many of the housebuilders 

As most of us have to take our own generators to site 

and it’s a pleasant surprise when someone does it for us 

 

Most builders are pretty hardy 

Ive worked on two jobs last year that didn’t have a loo 

 

[Russell griffiths]

Tbh a caravan is a bad idea, they are cramped, the door is too small for your average Groundworks team 

whatever it costs you will be wasted as when you are finished it will need to go for scrap. 

We have an old lorry body that was free, I just paid to get it collected, it is about 3m long by 2m wide

we built a shelf that has a microwave, toaster and kettle on it. We have a small fridge, we then put 10 hooks on the wall that we all hang our coats on. 

 

It makes for  a good working relationship between you and the guys. 

I have been both contractor and client and I know a nice site is somewhere the boys will want to be on a Monday, if your site is swimming in mud and unpleasant to be at it doesn’t take a lot to persuade your average brickie to bugger off if offered something better. 

[dpmiller]

We've a Portaloo and a nice dry rubbled site. The TF team ate in their van and had no need for mains electric, the brickies set up residence on a scaffold plank sitting on blocks in the kitchen and brought a genny when needed, and the Romanian guys dong the insulation didn't stop for long enough to eat. I did power a couple of LED floods off a car battery by inverter for them tho.

[Redoctober]

From our experience of the build last year, all the trades were happy to sit in their vans for their various breaks. No power tools were left on site overnight as they took them home with them.

Once the "house" became secure, they felt more confident to leave the odd power tool inside but not until.

We were fortunate enough to have a stand alone car port / shed built and we made a point of having that built first. The trades did use this but only during the height of the summer. As said, they seemed happy to sit in their vans.

[recoveringbuilder]

We were so lucky last year that the weather was so dry for weeks on end our builders sat outside on summer seats we’d kept out of storage, we did have a portable toilet though 

[lizzie]

I wanted one of those swanky welfare units but sanity prevailed. We built the garage first. We had a portaloo that was it until the garage was built.  They all sat in their vans anyway.  When garage was eventually built and electricity available they just used it to charge their phones, still sat in their vans for lunch etc.  I put a fridge and first aid kit in the garage and gave them a kettle, mugs etc. That was rarely used they preferred their own drinks or to get from a nearby coffee shop. We didnt keep any tools on site and they had to take responsibility for their own kit.

 

For secure storage you could look at a container, you can hire quite cheaply and they deliver and take away at the end and it is very secure.

[Simplysimon]

container for tool storage https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-8ft-Shipping-Container-For-Sale-Secure-Bike-Shed-portable-site-cabin-store/123173735995?hash=item1cadba0e3b:g:ihEAAOSwomVbFlOW:rk:14:pf:0 sell once finished with

[PeterW]

There are a lot of 8ft containers sold as “once only” as they are manufacturered in China and then used to ship goods to the EU and the U.K.  but there is little demand to used them to ship back due to size. They make it into the market frequently and are pretty good as are usually unmarked. 

 

The one linked has been modified with a lock box which is not standard on a container - pretty much a necessity as standard container locks are made of toffee wrappers ... 

[DreamHouseDreamer]

A very belated thank you for all the contributions and thoughts since I last popped in here.  Been swamped with other things more important that worrying about contractor welfare.  However, the problem has not gone away.

 

Clearly none of you have encountered German contractors!  We have signed our life away with the contract terms for that part of the project, including a requirement to provide a heated, weather proof area for break times, complete with running hot and cold water.  When we took up references one client told us their site got shut down by the contractor's H&S guy because there was no hot water for hand washing.  Hence we absolutely need somewhere for them that is not their van.

 

Yes, the current site workers, Brits, will sit in their vans to eat their sarnies, but prefer my garden furniture that sits in the last remaining bay of the stable block, but that's scheduled for demolition any day now.  And these workers charge their iPhones all the time - they even have far newer models than we do.  They are all using the Portaloo rather than pissing behind a tree and once site clearance is complete, there will be nowhere to piss behind that's not in full view of the house we will continue to live in!   Oh, and they don't bring flasks, they are also using my spare kettle and drinking out of my mugs.  Before one would sit on the dusty seat in the digger they hired in, he asked to borrow my Hoover to clean the cab out, a cab with a heated seat no less!

 

The need to store tools overnight has gone away for now.  As they have demolished more and more of the buildings on site, so they've taken to taking away their tools.  Until there's a new building with any doors and windows, I will be advising further contractors that their tools are there responsibility. 

 

Again, thank you for the wide range of ideas and suggestions, some good ideas there!

 

DHDreamer

 

[lizzie]

@DreamHouseDreamer are you using a German kit builder e.g. hanse?

[recoveringbuilder]

A new generation of builders, just like the mechanics who are no longer called mechanics and wear gloves to do their work ?

[DreamHouseDreamer]

@Christine Walker  Spot on!  The ground workers bring a second set of clothes, so they don't soil their own vans.  When some sacks of MOT and other stuff got delivered from Chandlers, a pack of gloves were included in the delivery, and every time we see them manhandling anything at all, those gloves are being worn.  Never seen anything like it in my life.  ?

 

@lizzie  Yes, similar.  Why do you ask?

 

DHDreamer 

[lizzie]

@DreamHouseDreamer I got quite a long way down that route before changing horses.  Paid thousands to their pet H&S person (one of their ex salesman who has set himself to do the H&S) couldnt get it back.  He was paid over £3k for a few pages of rubbish I could have done myself but they wont allow that you have to use their people ditto on all the stuff including site welfare facilities...I dont think you have an option they won't compromise. So do the best deal you can on one of those swanky welfare units with not only loo but seating area with cooking facilities (microwave) and hot water hand wash etc....sky sports go down well too LOL....but seriously I found some for hire at circa £100 a week but that was 3 years ago.  You can't claim the vat back either unless you can get someone i.e. your groundwork contractors to do it via them and do it vat free to you.  At least with the Germans its for a limited time and so you wont get a huge bill for it.

[DreamHouseDreamer]

@lizzie  That was most interesting and enlightening, thank you.

 

We, too, were under the impression we had to hire in a posh site welfare unit - per your description with all mod cons.

 

However, while doing due diligence and visiting as many other houses as pos and asking questions, we visited a house where the home owner had bought a touring caravan (funny story, but not relevant, about the seller) and 1 of the German contractors involved accepted that in lieu of the posh welfare unit as long as it had hot water, heater (yet they built through last summer's heat wave so air con in a tin box might have been more appropriate ? ) and some where to sit and eat.  Owing to what we are doing in total, we will need something in place for several months rather than just erection phase, so the cost is high (we've found prices well over £100 per week) and as you say, VAT to be paid. 

 

One of the other German companies will provide their own welfare unit, but that's included in their quote and that's VAT free, so no worries there.

 

Our ground worker offered to tow any caravan we find to our site provided it's in a 100 miles radius for the petrol money.

 

Was that extortionate cost for the construction management plan?  We got a shocker of a quote for the provision of that, and again, after a bit of pressure discovered we did not need to use their consultant for this provided it covered what clauses they needed in to.  In the end I googled for such and found several versions on the internet and our planning consultant said he's just written one so sent me that.  We cobbled all the relevant bits from those together and submitted it to the local council and that passed muster, and we got that part of the PP conditions signed off a couple of weeks ago.

 

However, we can't duck the other fees for the H&S guy, and having had our first appointment with him, he's clearly a PITA jobsworth.  

 

All checks and balances, grist to the mill.

 

So far my prima donna fashion victim ground worker is very amenable and I'm not going to complain about his fastidiousness if that's carried through to all aspects of the work he and the others do.

 

DHDreamer

 

[lizzie]

@DreamHouseDreamer nope that extortionate fee was just for H&S first part...the overall cost was for H&S was quoted to be about 8k (she faints) and I had to pay the first bit and then they pick up 50% of the second bit as I recall so still about 6k plus vat for me to find.  Big deal!  I hope they do accept your caravan their contracts state all sorts of things and they will walk off site if its not exactly to their requirements. Those flights to Germany to look around factory and choose things are 'free' hah as if, its all loaded on the price.  Its a b gravy train!

 

I hope the groundworker is as good as he seems...my first one was a nightmare.  Second one was a lot better and cheaper.