Gearing Up For A Temporary UFH Buffer

[Onoff]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Threads in the nuts look different. As @MJNewton said, junior hacksaw and 2 mins and they will be off 

 

Parkside multi tool with an always on on/off switch! 

 

[Onoff]

All up and running.

 

Very quick to fill and bleed!

 

1 weep on an old, previously revisited 22mm ball valve on the downstairs CH up in the loft - should have replaced the olives rather than backing off and retightening with compound. Then another on the 15 of the 22/22/15 compression T beneath the new rad.

 

Sorted now.

 

An oddity though. I'd say on the downstairs single pipe system, out of 8 rads, 2 to 7 are hotter than previous. These 6 are plumbed in at the top and  out at the bottom with swept tees. However, rad 1 being first after the boiler and rad 8 being last, are modern convector rads. These are on the single pipe but plumbed in at the bottom and out at the bottom. These are both bled but imo not as hot as before.

 

Pump is set on speed 3 btw.

 

 

[ProDave]

So is that the UFH in the bathroom working now?

[Pocster]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So is that the UFH in the bathroom working now?

50 quid says no 

[Onoff]

59 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So is that the UFH in the bathroom working now?

 

Don't be daft! ?

 

This just makes it easier to do so as in I can isolate the section of downstairs CH pipe I'm aiming to feed the llh off of without draining down the whole system.

 

The new rad, pump, pump valves, and balancing valve were unexpected bumps in the road.

 

The power flush happened as it was available for what it cost me in petrol to collect / take back. 

 

Hopefully I have an all round healthier system now. 

 

If I can convince SWMBO I'll start excavating the stairs room floor next! Some irrational worry about the mess and time it'll take...

Edited November 8, 2020 by Onoff

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

These 6 are plumbed in at the top and  out at the bottom with swept tees. However, rad 1 being first after the boiler and rad 8 being last, are modern convector rads. These are on the single pipe but plumbed in at the bottom and out at the bottom. These are both bled but imo not as hot as before.

Yep I would expect that as the flow is going through the bottom of the rad purely by convection. No swept tees ..? 
 

Glad it’s all sorted - as @Nickfromwales said , that header tee was probably full of crud. Will be worth pulling the Intakleen after a week to see what it’s caught. 

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Yep I would expect that as the flow is going through the bottom of the rad purely by convection. No swept tees ..? 
 

Glad it’s all sorted - as @Nickfromwales said , that header tee was probably full of crud. Will be worth pulling the Intakleen after a week to see what it’s caught. 

 

Thanks. No swept tees on these two rads and in/out at the bottom as aforementioned. That being said they do seem to have warmed up to an acceptable level eventually.

 

4 rads upstairs on the flow/return system are much hotter. 6 originals downstairs on the single pipe again hotter. 

 

The HW seems, well hotter in all honesty. I can only guess the coil was maybe crudded up?

 

Out of interest I've placed a temperature sensor tucked under the pipe insulation on the return to the boiler after where the CH comes into the return, one of those little ones like @newhome used. It's reading 60deg c. Seems high. Is it maybe reading artificially high because of the insulation?

 

Tbh, by the boiler where the flow and return pipes go up the wall into the loft the two pipes feel about the same temperature... bloody hot. The boiler stat is set to 65degC. Could it be I have the pump set too high, it's on 3?

 

Yep, I have to pull the mag filter still to add the inhibitor. Was going to give it a week before doing so. Too long?

 

Cheers

Edited November 8, 2020 by Onoff

[PeterW]

Week won’t harm it. And temperature will go up if you slow down the pump. It’s more likely that you have given the heat exchanger galleries a good clean, and everything is flowing a bit better. Worth seeing if you turn the boiler down if it drops off, also worth checking the stat is properly in its pocket. 

[Onoff]

I've put a temperature probe just where the 28mm feed goes into the mid position valve (top). Then a second probe on the return (bottom), after the CH return tees into it.

 

 

So nominally <5degC difference between flow and return.

 

 

I've now put the pump on 2 to see what happens.

[Gav_P]

Nice. I fancy doing the same on my system to see if I can ‘optimise’ it.  Are those probes specific for pipes or just cheapy Amazon type jobbies?

Edited November 8, 2020 by Gav_P

[Onoff]

Just now, Gav_P said:

Nice. I fancy doing the same on my system to see if I can ‘optimise’ it.  Are those probes specific for pipes or just cheapy Amazon rumble jobbies?

 

Cheap as chips jobbies that Amazon/eBay are awash with. No idea of the accuracy. The white wire just terminates at a little cylindrical sensor maybe 12mm X 3mm. Like this:

 

 

Just slipped in and held against the copper pipe by the lagging

[Gav_P]

Just now, Onoff said:

 

Cheap as chips jobbies that Amazon/eBay are awash with. No idea of the accuracy. The white wire just terminates at a little cylindrical sensor maybe 12mm X 3mm. Like this:

 

 

Just slipped in and held against the copper pipe by the lagging

 

nice ?... just ordered a few for some basic trials on my system. Thanks 

[Onoff]

9 minutes ago, Gav_P said:

nice ?... just ordered a few for some basic trials on my system. Thanks 

 

Now I'm no expert (on anything ?) but an option for temperature sensing system is I think a Raspberry Pi using DS18B20s:

 

https://www.circuitbasics.com/raspberry-pi-ds18b20-temperature-sensor-tutorial/

 

My lad was messing with them and the code for his 3D printer enclosure, air intake, extract etc. I haven't got a clue "how to". 

[Gav_P]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

 

Now I'm no expert (on anything ?) but an option for temperature sensing system is I think a Raspberry Pi using DS18B20s:

 

https://www.circuitbasics.com/raspberry-pi-ds18b20-temperature-sensor-tutorial/

 

My lad was messing with them and the code for his 3D printer enclosure, air intake, extract etc. I haven't got a clue "how to". 

I think j Harris was talking about this a couple of years ago. I seriously considered having a go, but then I remembered I’m a bit of a Luddite and it would end up in the ‘job for tomorrow’ box. 

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, Gav_P said:

I think j Harris was talking about this a couple of years ago. I seriously considered having a go, but then I remembered I’m a bit of a Luddite and it would end up in the ‘job for tomorrow’ box. 

 

I wanted my lad to do something with them so I could have them all over the house, in different rooms etc. Then to be able to read them on my mobile phone, ideally overlaid on a plan of the house i.e a flash gui. 

 

Guess he was too busy...

[Gav_P]

6 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I wanted my lad to do something with them so I could have them all over the house, in different rooms etc. Then to be able to read them on my mobile phone, ideally overlaid on a plan of the house i.e a flash gui. 

 

Guess he was too busy...

That would be nice! Well beyond my capabilities!! 

[Onoff]

11 minutes ago, Gav_P said:

That would be nice! Well beyond my capabilities!! 

 

I'll badger him again when he's back from uni in December. 

[Onoff]

UFH...baby steps here!

 

Planning 8 downstairs circuits (eventually) so figured get an 9(10?) port manifold at least. Initially I'll be running just two circuits. The bathroom loop and the towel rail in the same bathroom. 

 

Plan is at the mo to feed a low loss header from the single pipe downstairs CH. The manifold will be fed from the llh. A few real newbie questions if I may:

 

1) Does using the llh mean I'll have two separate water circuits, one in the single pipe and then what's going through the manifold?

 

2) Eurocones.....I pick the size to suit the UFH pipe in this case 16mm.

 

3) Assume I'll need a separate pump.

 

4) Do I just blank off unused ports in the manifold and what with? 

 

5) I'll want to run the towel rail "loop" hotter than the rest of the "real" UFH loops. Can I do that or does it need to come off of somewhere else?

 

6) To size the llh for the 1 loop and towel rail, what do I need to know/ do?

 

Cheers

Edited November 9, 2020 by Onoff

[PeterW]

Ok so..

 

Why 8 loops..? Seems excessive

 

1. no - it just allows the manifold to pull what it needs from the heating 

2. Yes but whos pipe did you use ..?

3. Yes but the manifold will have its own pump/blending set

4. Yes but depends on the manifold manufacturer as some sell blanking plugs, others you will be quicker putting the euro cones on with stubs of pipe and cap those

5. No, so that needs to come off the main heating circuit

6. Guess.. but it’s only temporary isn’t it..?

 

 

[Onoff]

59 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Ok so..

 

Why 8 loops..? Seems excessive

 

1. no - it just allows the manifold to pull what it needs from the heating 

2. Yes but whos pipe did you use ..?

3. Yes but the manifold will have its own pump/blending set

4. Yes but depends on the manifold manufacturer as some sell blanking plugs, others you will be quicker putting the euro cones on with stubs of pipe and cap those

5. No, so that needs to come off the main heating circuit

6. Guess.. but it’s only temporary isn’t it..?

 

 

 

Roughly:

 

Boiler room / conservatory

Kitchen 

Lounge*

Diner*

Bedroom 

Bathroom 

Study area

 

*Looking to knock through properly rather than partially as is now. Have to see whether I can get away with one loop.

 

1) Understood, just looked at a cutaway diagram

 

2) Generic  white, 16mm Pex-Al-Pex, Polish I think. It got the OK on here when I got it. Think someone directed me to it even.

 

3) Understood. Ages ago I bought this below, and have just used the pump to replace mine on the CH. Thinking that if the old pump was just clogged I might be able to salvage it and use that on this or put it back on the CH and the black pump back on this. Assume that's a blending valve I see? In theory then I could just add a manifold to this?

 

 

4) Got it, maker/manifold dependent 

 

5) My temporary! Can a llh than be used in place of a buffer as in because I have an oil boiler I need a buffer I believe? Wondering how big a llh I'd need to do 6/7/8 circuits if I was to get one now and be done with it. The CH system here is likely to stay rads upstairs and maybe a combination of UFH and rads downstairs. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Onoff

[PeterW]

Low loss header may struggle with an oil boiler as they don’t really modulate well. No way you could change the current hot water cylinder for a thermal store ..? Would then work as mains hot water and a buffer tank. 

[PeterW]

Any more bits with that manifold as it’s missing an isolator from the top row. And yes that could be used,  old pump may be a bit noisy but you could replace that when you finally finish the rest of the circuits. 

[Onoff]

58 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Low loss header may struggle with an oil boiler as they don’t really modulate well. No way you could change the current hot water cylinder for a thermal store ..? Would then work as mains hot water and a buffer tank. 

 

It was @Nickfromwales suggested the llh.

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterW]

Yes but he suggested it as you’re not ripping everything out in one go and keeping the rads etc so it makes sense while there are a lot of mixed parts to the system. 

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Yes but he suggested it as you’re not ripping everything out in one go and keeping the rads etc so it makes sense while there are a lot of mixed parts to the system. 

 

A bit lost as to why a llh wil struggle...it's ME not understanding! This is the generic guts of one then I've come across...struggling now to see how it would work even. YouTube it is later!