Onoff

Gearing Up For A Temporary UFH Buffer

Recommended Posts

On 02/11/2020 at 16:33, Nickfromwales said:

You’ll need to link flow and return at source and fit a gate valve for a manual bypass adjustment. 

 

On 02/11/2020 at 16:33, Nickfromwales said:

Needs to be across where you link the PFM in ideally. 

 

Tomorrow is the day! New rad, new pump valves. Before all that the power flush. 

 

I'm still lost as to the why of your two points above. Isn't it a case I'm just aiming to treat the CH pipework as a loop? I force water round one way, then the other a few times then dump the contents to the drain? Can't figure the why of the extra gate valve suggested.

 

Ta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

 

Tomorrow is the day! New rad, new pump valves. Before all that the power flush. 

 

I'm still lost as to the why of your two points above. Isn't it a case I'm just aiming to treat the CH pipework as a loop? I force water round one way, then the other a few times then dump the contents to the drain? Can't figure the why of the extra gate valve suggested.

 

Ta.

If you’re going to open the single pipe at the pump and connect the PFM there, and both / all ZV’s are open ( with gate to HWC closed at first ) then it should be fine without the gate. The gate was just to allow you to take the PFM potential down from 100%. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

If you’re going to open the single pipe at the pump and connect the PFM there, and both / all ZV’s are open ( with gate to HWC closed at first ) then it should be fine without the gate. The gate was just to allow you to take the PFM potential down from 100%. 

 

Taking out the magnetic filter on the return 28mm and fitting the PFM there is the plan. It'll be about 1m from the boiler. 

 

I'll put all the ZVs to MAN. I'll close the balance valve too. I'll turn off the feed from the header and I'll cap the expansion pipe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

Taking out the magnetic filter on the return 28mm and fitting the PFM there is the plan. It'll be about 1m from the boiler. 

 

I'll put all the ZVs to MAN. I'll close the balance valve too. I'll turn off the feed from the header and I'll cap the expansion pipe. 

Yup. That’ll cover everything 👍
Good luck.👌

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I am going to leave "as is" is the 1st and last (8th) radiators on the downstairs single pipe system. In that at the moment they are plumbed, in at the bottom and out at the bottom. They work and I figure bottom entry/exit makes flushing easier. This as opposed to changing the flow pipes to go in at the top as is traditional on a single pipe system. These two aren't anyway plumbed with swept tees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are no instructions per se for this ScaleBreaker C90 when using it for power flushing.

 

All that's in the manual is how to use it to descale.

 

IMG_20201106_184356406.thumb.jpg.88997432be8d98f62581f9d825dc5067.jpg

 

Do I drain the system first as in boiler, rads, coil etc then fill the unit or leave what's in there, well, in there and just start pumping it round both ways, then dump it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would dump the contents and then refill through the drain off with a hose. Then run it round and add the chemicals at that point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I would dump the contents and then refill through the drain off with a hose. Then run it round and add the chemicals at that point. 

The PFM should have a cold  mains water connection point. So, theoretically, you can just fill the PFM tank and keep cycling the pump on and off, and it will eventually fill the whole system up from there. Remember the PFM is gravity-esq so the cap will need to be kept on and the head of pressure kept flowing to stop the tankl from emptying out from its overflow connection.

It's a merry dance for sure.

Oh, I hope you have long hoses as you cannot even DREAM of having the PFM indoors ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently it has a 3m inlet hose .. and 3m hoses so this is going through a window I reckon ..!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Oh, I hope you have long hoses as you cannot even DREAM of having the PFM indoors ;) 

 

PFM is going to sit in the boiler room between boiler and back door. Hoses aren't long enough to go outside. Nearest window is fixed glazing. I'll somehow extend the drain to outside though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

PFM is going to sit in the boiler room between boiler and back door. Hoses aren't long enough to go outside. Nearest window is fixed glazing. I'll somehow extend the drain to outside though. 

The machine has an overflow which you are supposed to leave open. Can you extend the hoses? I've never used one indoors......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I would dump the contents and then refill through the drain off with a hose. Then run it round and add the chemicals at that point. 

 

I like that idea.

 

Rough plan of attack then:

 

-Coffee & bagels 👍

-Isolate mains power

-Close ball valve on feed from header tank

-Hose on boiler open drain

-Hose on d'stairs CH single pipe system open drain

-Drain down

-Close drain on d'stairs single pipe system

-Refill via boiler drain from mains hose

-Cap off expansion

-Put mid position to MAN

-Put 2 ports to MAN

-Close balancing valve on return from coil

-Remove IntaKlean2 from 28mm return pipe

-Connect ScaleBreaker to pipe ends

-Run drain line

-Attach mains water to ScaleBreaker

-Fill ScaleBreaker tank

-Switch on

 

That's as far as I've considered so far.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm wondering whether I should first isolate the downstairs single pipe system, which I can quite easily as I've a ball valve on the flow and return? I could then flush the upstairs flow and return system on its own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn!

 

I totally forgot about the state of the header tank. Through I guess general crap in the incoming mains water, the occasional pump over in the past coupled with no lid, it's filthy. Full of rust and scale by the looks of things. This shot was taken by holding the phone over the top. Access is appalling as I think previously mentioned. 

 

20191121_163751

 

If I'm going to do all this cleaning it's pointless not doing the header tank too. Don't want to be reintroducing unnecessary crap into the system if I can help it. Think I can squeeze it out of where it is if I disconnect mains in, out and the expansion. First problem is the stopcock on the incoming mains is seized solid.

 

Sam_2852a

 

At least removing the tank I'll be able to get to the manky end of that expansion pipe to clean it up and fit a temporary stop end.

 

Oh well, nobody's going to sort this but me! 😂

 

 

Edited by Onoff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I installed my new UV and filtration system I needed to do a full chemical flush of the system so that it was starting from clean, I also took the time to empty the header tank which was just like yours but had a very fine layer of silt in the bottom and staining from the peaty water, luckily my access was better and I was able to get in about it without taking it out.  That’s one nasty looking job you’ve got there...... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mucky header tank removed after loosening sone associated pipe work. Jet washed and filled with a strong citric acid / hit water solution to get rid of the ingrained rust stains!

 

IMG_20201107_114333326.thumb.jpg.2433d39f63be4e567e79f2fa09df195e.jpg

 

IMG_20201107_114437554.thumb.jpg.5095ade45b35efd093ed73ea8cb4a171.jpg

 

Found the lid too when I removed it!

 

Pump valves next I think.

 

Not sure when to fit the new rad. Now or after the power flushing and another drain down?

 

@PeterW when I back fill via the boiler drain I presume have the PFM connected up & all zone valves open? Should I also have the feed to the header open? Thinking when the system is "full" I'll see water coming out the overflow.

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything open and keep an eye on the level in the header or the expansion. What are you connecting the PFM to..?? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Everything open and keep an eye on the level in the header or the expansion. What are you connecting the PFM to..?? 

 

Thanks. Connecting the PFM here:

 

IMG_20201107_124116792.thumb.jpg.4c827e1291695d069a9fbd33a93cfb73.jpg

 

 

 

A more immediate problem is the pump valves. Got those you recommend. One was a bitch to get off the pipe, I nearly pulled something! 😂 The 28mm olives have to come off now. Thinking multi tool with a bi-metal blade. Only got a 15mm olive tool. 

 

IMG_20201107_123940110.thumb.jpg.9ac688b62701b77021b2446f884b91c1.jpg

 

The crud in there but it is at least loose seemingly!

IMG_20201107_124122473.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Old 28mm pump olives multi tooled off. New valves on. Going to refit the header tank now. Not all going quite as quick as I'd hoped mind!

 

IMG_20201107_133811221.thumb.jpg.b15bc8d0e1963ef61e7dec71e3c7cb15.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who's clever f***ing idea was it to fill from the boiler drain off?

 

Hilarious when the hose comes apart at 8bar... indoors... 😂

 

IMG_20201107_161625141.thumb.jpg.7ab61aa5a86ad509965c43906566cb82.jpg

 

I am now wet, cold with obviously no heating or means of having a shower.

 

System is drained down. F*** IT, going to fill the tank of this PFM and switch it on.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Onoff said:

Who's clever f***ing idea was it to fill from the boiler drain off?

 

Hilarious when the hose comes apart at 8bar... indoors... 😂

 

IMG_20201107_161625141.thumb.jpg.7ab61aa5a86ad509965c43906566cb82.jpg

 

I am now wet, cold with obviously no heating or means of having a shower.

 

System is drained down. F*** IT, going to fill the tank of this PFM and switch it on.

 

 

😂👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So all cleaned up and turned on.

 

 

 

I have no idea what I'm doing with this! 😂

 

I filled the system from the header as best as. I then closed the balancing valve on the coil. Because the PFM was in circuit it's tank filled up from the header so it was a bit black!

 

I then turned on the PFM. Back and forth, back and forth reversing direction. Had one leak where I connected the hoses to the IntaKlean2 connection. I then turned it onto dump, came out rotten. Only so much water dumps, when it slows to a trickle I switch it back to recirculate. Repeat. Periodically I'm topping the tank up from the garden hose. The water in the tank is getting cleaner I think.

 

I'm just carrying in doing that. Could be a long cold night! 😂

 

One pita though. I initially closed the balancing valve on the return of the coil. After having run through the CH circuit I slowly turned the balancing valve on. Bloody thing is leaking and I don't have another (28mm) anything I can do?

 

IMG_20201107_164858767.thumb.jpg.6beb033fb02d3bb3c44b3f7e4b29d867.jpg

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That could be due to pressure from the PFM as they can be pretty fierce. 
 

Are all the rad valves fully open ..? Have you stuck any sort of cleaner into the system ..?


Leave it running in one direction for a good 5 mins and go round and give each of the rads a bit of a tap with a rubber mallet. Will loosen the crud. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

That could be due to pressure from the PFM as they can be pretty fierce. 
 

Are all the rad valves fully open ..? Have you stuck any sort of cleaner into the system ..?


Leave it running in one direction for a good 5 mins and go round and give each of the rads a bit of a tap with a rubber mallet. Will loosen the crud. 

 

It had 2L of Sentinel 400 stuck in last week and that's been running round (hot) since. All that got drained off earlier today. 

 

I've been running it back and forth and dumping it/refilling with clean water for maybe an hour, seems longer. The PFM tank is now clean as is the dump water. Dumping into a washing up bowl on the patio so I can gauge how clean it is. To start with it was jet black. Can't find my rubber mallets (neither of them) so it was a wooden mallet wrapped in a T-shirt. Thinking if it's running clean then time to stop maybe?

 

The rad valves...no not fully open, will go and do that now and carry on.

 

Little video:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now