Automation Planning

[Adam2]

Hi all, am working through what I really want from automation and have come down to this list below (so far). I'm wary of automation for automation's sake and looking at what is actually beneficial (hard to tell until done I guess with some things). Really not interested in remote controlled locks, arriving home to have  garage door open, lights come on, radio on etc as an integrated setup. Also not a fan of Alexa/similar where you are reliant on an external connection for functionality.

 

Main thing at this stage I think is developing a plan for wiring needs so this can be included in my next phase of design - well that and of course an update to the budget!

 

I'd really appreciate feedback on if I'm missing some things, if based on these requirements I should be looking at particular home automation solutions and there are some questions below where I'd really benefit from product suggestions. A concern about a top -level automation solution is the complexity of pulling all the parts together and programming it - don't get me wrong, I'm a computer scientist so no stranger to programming but the maintenance/upgrades/potential reliance on external support etc I'd like to avoid as much as possible. I've followed a few groups discussing Zigbee and Z-wave and it feels like these aren't really bullet-proof systems, I want to be able to fit and forget as far as practicable - appreciate always some maintenance needs but don't want products that are too early in their evolution.

 

The post got longer the more I though about it, maybe I should separate out into different posts - mods please advise if this is the case.

 

 

1) Interior motion activated lights in dressing room/bathrooms/utility/some other areas

Thinking this is self contained (as in each circuit will have a sensor and a wall switch [left on]) so no need to integrate with a whole house setup - but am I missing something?

 

2) Exterior motion activated lights for entrance area/front of garage

Again pretty standard I think, just need to find reliable products for triggering - possibly with option to use multiple sensors for same lights if that is possible.

 

3) Exterior house/garden lighting 

In my last house these were controlled by a manual timer and a daylight sensor - cheap, easy to understand and reliable. Appreciate could be slicker with some of the new HA kit but not sure of any real benefit.

 

4) Interior Lighting, open kitchen/dining/lounge area 

- Wall switches with basic scenes (x3 one per functional area) - providing off, mid brightness, full brightness (with "mid" being configurable to a degree). 

- Likely to be a mix of LED downlights, LED linear strips, some incidental/table lights

- Do you still need low amp outlets or can this be done just as easily/better in other ways?

- Not thinking a remote control is necessary for adjusting lights but if there is a good system maybe that could be an option

 

5) Lighting bedrooms/hallways

- Just a regular dimmer I think

- Considered incidental lighting controlled from wall switch on entrance but when going to sleep would naturally turn off on the bedside light units so would be a problem then.

 

Some really nice to have options

- All lights off switch by the front door

- Again by front door - All lights on at a pre-set level in main living areas and hallways

 

 

6) Roller Blinds in living areas and master bedroom 

- Probably manual switch with preset positions and variable control

- Remote control would be a nice feature

- Appreciate could automate based on outside light levels/time of day etc but not sure if this would be useful and may end up over-riding it or on bright days manually controlling

 

7) Audio

Bedrooms:

Ideally in-ceiling speakers with Bluetooth - possibly something like:

https://www.ceiling-speakers.co.uk/collections/ceiling-speakers/products/lithe-audio-bluetooth-speaker-each

With a 2nd speaker wired into the one with the bluetooth receiver.

Or could be Sonos which I have at the moment but prefer in ceiling

Feels like this is an area that is fast developing so maybe I'm over-looking some options?

Thinking it's going to be OK to have the audio just bluetoothed from a phone/tablet as this should be simpler for visitors etc to use than having to run an audio app

Not seeing benefit in integrating bedroom audio with anything outside the bedroom +  we don't have TVs etc in bedrooms so need need for sophisticated AV distribution

 

Living areas dining/kitchen/sitting:

Expect more in-ceiling speakers but not sure how to run them - ideally these will be controlled by an app but unsure what good options are aside from Sonos which I currently have across all main rooms and find a bit flakey so would appreciate suggestions. Functionality looking for is: group different areas if required for same output, play internet sourced radio and spotify.

 

Outside:

Similar to bedroom setup I think - just a couple of speakers mounted in overhang above sliding doors to terrace

 

8- AV for TV area (treating as separate to other audio)

Screen recessed in wall with own sound bar for ad-hoc TV viewing

Sound - via amp with wired connections to speakers for movies etc

Usual other inputs into amp or TV depending on capabilities

 

9- Security

Planning on an alarm with various door/window sensors/exterior movement sensors (maybe with a speaker to alert any intruder) nice to have outbound alerting- messaging/opening an audio connection over skype etc.  Appreciate recommendations for products I should shortlist here. 

CCTV - On an earlier house I installed a 4 camera co-ax wired setup with hard drive - worked quite well but probably better ways to do this now so again appreciate product suggestions. Looking for multi-camera, ideally able to record full-time for 30 days and identify movement as highlights triggered via PIR (not image based movement detection) - ability to connect recorder into home LAN and view on TV screen or via laptop

Smoke alarms etc - I think these could be integrated into alarm system with outbound alerting

 

10 Wifi

Have seen the posts here about wiring Ubiquity or similar into a main switch - all sounds good so will go that route but have all devices where feasible wired in so Wifi is just for computers/phones etc 

 

11) MVHR and ASHP for heating/cooling

Not sure of advantages in integrating these with each other/with any other aspects vs configuring each of these separately. Expecting house to be very well insulated (ICF + triple glazed) so targetting a generally whole house consistent temp (give or take the solar gain/other factors). Temp control  for ASHP needs more thinking about for room control vs floor control (4 floors) but for now I'll work on the basis of room controls.

[Ed Davies]

13 minutes ago, Adam2 said:

6) Roller Blinds in living areas and master bedroom 

 

Something I've fancied for a while is bedroom blackout blinds that open a short while before the alarm goes off.

 

15 minutes ago, Adam2 said:

11) MVHR and ASHP for heating/cooling

 

Managing storage of energy, thermal for DHW or heating in tanks or the slab and/or battery storage in the home or car, seems like the “killer app” for home automation to me if you have any sort of variable rate energy supplies which you almost certainly will have with an ASHP when the temperature varies outdoors, never mind PV, E7/10 or smart meters.

[ProDave]

8: Wall mounted tv.

 

Don't just provision for a sound bar.  Install cabling for a 5.1 or even 7.1 surround sound system, even if you don't install it straight away.

 

The biggie with a wall hung tv is where will all the boxes go? dvd / blueray, sky box, freesat box, DVR, and even the surround sound box?

 

All mine are under the stairs and long hdmi cables from there to the tv, except the surround sound that is below the tv, partly recessed into a pocket built into the wall.

[Sue B]

@ProDave can I ask did you use HDMI leads that were long or cable that you wired into an HDMI socket?  

 

Last build we put the longest HDMi lead into the wall and it failed about a year after it was all connected up - it just stopped working and actually fell apart when we took it out of the socket to see what the probelm was.

[ProDave]

7 minutes ago, Sue B said:

@ProDave can I ask did you use HDMI leads that were long or cable that you wired into an HDMI socket?  

 

Last build we put the longest HDMi lead into the wall and it failed about a year after it was all connected up - it just stopped working and actually fell apart when we took it out of the socket to see what the probelm was.

I used 10 metre long ones brought from CPC.  I installed 3 to each tv, even though only one is presently in use.  And after I installed them, I tested them before the plasterer came.  (I learned that on a previous job where I installed one for a ceiling mounted projector only to find it was dud when tested.)

 

I have however organised the service void drops to the tv's with liftable access traps in the floor immediately above, so that in theory I could fish completely new cables from the AV cupboard under the stairs right through to the tv's.

 

Watch out for not bending the cables too sharp. Some tv's have the AV sockets in silly places so if you try and mount the tv close to the wall, you end up bending the cables something silly. I wonder if that is what happened to your one that fell apart?

[Sue B]

I think it probably was - we really struggled with it and even had an L connector to try and ease the situation

[lizzie]

I have lighting items 1-5 pretty much as you have written. We use Phillips dynalite system for automated part I can also control that from an app.

 

I have the cctv and alarms hardwired and can also see/ control on phone etc

 

I did not want audio as had it before and never used it.

 

Didnt want the auto blinds either after seeing friends.

 

We have a data cab in the plant room. All our cat cables (every room wired) go into a board in the cab. Our router is in there as is the sky box. We control all our tvs just from remotes no boxes in any rooms all run from data cab.

 

We decided against ASHP and went for mains gas to run our ufh and dhw.  Heatmiser system can control from wall stats and app.MVHR in as well of course, can control that from ipad/phone too.

[Adam2]

@Ed Davies thanks - re blinds that would be nice in the bedroom for sure - though we need to see what we can sort for suitable blinds, we may have light coming in anyway ? It's hard with roller blinds to get really good light block at the edges I've found previously.

 

@ProDave yes - agreed, last place I had (bungalow so easy) 5.1 with in-wall and in-ceiling speakers. IIRC Monitor rectangular ones with directable speaker units - sounded v nice. Will have screen recessed into a false wall with all boxes similar to yourself in an AV cupboard under the stairs - only 3-4m away so should be easy enough though need to sort out the remote control part of this as well. Also used a few 90 degree connectors on the screen to get better cable connections. If poss I'll have ducting going from screen back to AV cupboard to make it a bit easier for any future cabling/fixes. 

[ProDave]

We used the Powermid XL remote control extenders. Linked here from the first one I found on ebay, but I bought them from CPC where you can buy the transmitters and receivers separately of you want to control from multiple rooms https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marmitek-PowerMid-XL-infrared-extender-set/263746787472?epid=1405455327&hash=item3d68889890:g:JL4AAOSwUwlbG2OM:rk:4:pf:0

[epsilonGreedy]

Environmental health monitoring would be on my list for a deluxe home automation setup e.g. internal particulate monitoring and CO2 level to allow fining tuning of MVHR down to lowest healthy level. I have never suffered from asthma but I want clean internal air if only to deter its onset.

 

I will also be looking for intelligent control of my MVHR based on external conditions because since living onsite I can now predict the climatic conditions when wood smoke hangs over the village. Another issue is a chicken farm about 600m away.

 

Think we should all consider old age and technology to help with independent living, this is where I foresee a growing role for voice control. I take the point about external service dependency though the major chip manufacturers like Intel are presently working on silicon chips for embedding AI neural nets cheaply at the IOT edge  (think 1980's EAROM). Voice recognition is going to get embedded in local devices. The question is how to provision a selfbuild today for voice control hardware that is yet to arrive.

 

Another old age provision would be video cam aided front door access control.

 

Finally and at the old tech end of home automation with consideration to the continuing demise of high street retail. I will want to facilitate home parcel delivery which will consist of a metal parcel drop built into a garage wall.

[MikeSharp01]

12 minutes ago, Adam2 said:

Also used a few 90 degree connectors on the screen to get better cable connections.

Have you had a scope on the hdmi signals to see what signal loss there is? HDMI is not a fool proof standard and it was developed to cope with 1080p over a max practical distance of 50ft IIRC. As the demands of 4k and 16k grow on us it won't cope over even that distance so I would build a space behind / beside the TV to put the boxes and run a fibre cable to your router it is unlikely that terrestrial broadcast will get much beyond 4k in the medium term satellite will and if you have a fast enough broadband you might get beyond 4k. 

[Adam2]

40 minutes ago, lizzie said:

I have lighting items 1-5 pretty much as you have written. We use Phillips dynalite system for automated part I can also control that from an app.

 

Just had a quick look at Dynalite - very nice. Seems to offer what we are looking for and with nice looking wall interfaces. Do you know if there are options for self install and/or self programming post install? 

[lizzie]

45 minutes ago, Adam2 said:

 

Just had a quick look at Dynalite - very nice. Seems to offer what we are looking for and with nice looking wall interfaces. Do you know if there are options for self install and/or self programming post install? 

Certainly on programming I dont know about install though.  Its a great system you can even integrate the Hue range of lighting if you have any of those.

[AliG]

Hi @Adam2

 

1. We have this, works fantastically. You can save by not bothering with switches at all unless you really think you need them. So far I have not come across a time I wished the lights had a switch also. Actually I often wish almost all the lights came on automatically.

 

2. Pretty standard, look at reviews to make sure the PIR sensors don't give out water a few weeks.

 

3. I put bulbs with daylight sensors in the actual bulbs into the outside fittings that I wanted on all night. This is simpler to wire. Also as these lights are on for hours on end I wanted replaceable bulbs. LED fittings often give out well before their expected lifespan and I would not want to have replace fittings which could be especially difficult if you have multiple matching lights and they may no longer be available.

 

4. I used the Fibaro system which involves adding a small wireless control switch behind the light switches. These cost around £50 a time, plus a couple of hundred for the main control unit. The only extra wiring is to use three core for the lighting circuits. It works very well and you can design scenes etc. Works with standard LED fittings and effectively can make an light dimmable without buying a dimmer switch as this is built into the switches (assuming the light can be dimmed). Can be integrated into Alexa, worked away from home etc if you want to, but you don't have to. I just integrated Alexa a couple of weeks ago to see if it worked,

 

5.One thing I would recommend is two switches in bedrooms, one beside the bed and one at the door. The alternative is to use a wireless system and one switch which is what I have gone for. If the lights are on a wireless system then you can create scenes to switch all off or on etc.

 

6. I have put in some wiring for this, but so far it is unused. Motorised curtain tracks and blinds seem to be outrageously expensive, I got an insane quote for some non standard sizes and decided I could just open and close things manually.

 

In saying this I think I may revisit it for our bedroom as it has 4 sets of curtains to open.

 

7. I use the Sonos system which is so easy to set up. I have not found Bluetooth systems great in the past as it has a very short range and cuts out if you walk around the house with your phone.

 

If you are finding your Sonos flakey I would suspect you have a wifi problem. Ours is rock solid, my wife calls me all the time because something is not working, this never happens with Sonos. You might want to consider a Ubiquiti type wifi system in a new house to spread he wifi signal.

 

We bought two Sonos Connects for rooms that are wet, and put ceiling speakers in there. Otherwise they are outrageously expensive compared to the speakers.

 

I don't think Sonos speakers are too intrusive for bedrooms. You might also consider some of the Amazon equivalents now, also screens may help visitors.

 

I thought about wiring for speakers outside then just decided to put in a socket and I would take a Sonos out there.

 

8. Put in ethernet cabling to everywhere a TV goes as well as Coax for Freeview. Sky Q and I believe Virgin V6 boxes now network over ethernet.

 

As mentioned any other cables should be in walls/ceilngs and think where the boxes will go if you plan of having TVs wall mounted. We have Sky Q minis behind TVs, in bedroom I brought cabling inside wardrobes with TVs mounted just outside for neatness and we have a recess in the chimney breast in the kitchen.

 

9. A local security company put in a standard security system for us. These are now wireless and also app controlled. Ours is the Pyronix system. App control is simple and seems to work well. It was surprisingly cheap due to no wiring being required.

 

We have a Uniview CCTV system which works over ethernet. The cameras are powered over ethernet also, you just put an ethernet cable to wherever you want a camera and bring them all back to the recorder box. Hikvision systems are very similar now. The cameras and recordings can be seen on an app. I am not aware of a PIR triggered system, but you can define the areas on each camera that you want to trigger alerts and the sensitivity. To view on TV you can use a HDMI to digital TV converter, we didn't;t bother, I just put the app on all our phones and tablets.

 

10. Yes Ubiquiti plus ethernet where possible. I get 100% of our wifi connection speed of just over 100megs pretty much everywhere in the house.

 

11. We have thermostats in every room. A lot depends on whether you have rooms that are never used, it seems overkill to me.

 

 

 

[Adam2]

Cheers @AliG very helpful.

 

Hadn't considered completely removing switches but will mull that over as will be nice not having them - only thing that comes to mind is bulb replacement but with LEDs that is pretty rare nowadays.

 

Had a look at Fibaro - could be good. Do you find there is no latency from the wall switch (or minimal from an app)? And is reliability 100%?

I'd be OK with wiring all required circuits back to a central control unit instead of using a wireless solution but I haven't found a consumer oriented install/config option yet - though like the Philips Dynalite style of wall controllers...

 

My Sonos (3 floors with play 1/3/5/Sub/Soundbar/Connect (how expensive was that part!) for my turntable and the small magic box forget it's name but the thing I believe allows the Sonos mesh network but maybe I got that wrong. I hoped the Sonos mesh network would resolve having Wifi issues but the Sonos network at times seems to be working as it is streaming music/radio but the app (same issues on Android and iOS) will not connect - resolution is usually switching off some Sonos speakers. Probably will just reset the whole thing and start from scratch - couple of years ago was fine but Sonos has so many updates....

 

Adam

 

[AliG]

If you have to replace a bulb/fitting you can just isolate the circuit at the CU.

 

There is no noticeable latency using Fibaro from the wall switch, and small latency from the app, probably less than 1 second. The wall switches seem 100% reliable they work even without setting it up, but I would say that response to using the app is 90%. The wall switches generally are 2 way retractive (switches sprung in the centre) so you can dim and switch lights off and on. Dimmer switches are not necessary as this function is built into the Fibaro switch. This almost pays for the switches. On mine the lights are set to fade in and out when you hit the switch, which is a nice touch. I was unwilling to pay the silly money of some installer solutions and in particular did not want a solution that I had to pay someone to programme. When I ordered the Fibaro switches the supplier programmed the basic parameters into it for me, type of fitting, dimmable, switch etc. These, however, are easily adjustable from the web based control system. I have not yet tried to programme any scenes.

 

My Sonos has never been connected to the Sonos Mesh network, only wifi. I wouldn't buy it when you had to buy an extra box. I think if your wifi was stable you would not have issues. I don't recall ever having an issue getting the app to connect.

 

 

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, AliG said:

If you have to replace a bulb/fitting you can just isolate the circuit at the CU.

 

There is no noticeable latency using Fibaro from the wall switch, and small latency from the app, probably less than 1 second. The wall switches seem 100% reliable they work even without setting it up, but I would say that response to using the app is 90%. The wall switches generally are 2 way retractive (switches sprung in the centre) so you can dim and switch lights off and on. Dimmer switches are not necessary as this function is built into the Fibaro switch. This almost pays for the switches. On mine the lights are set to fade in and out when you hit the switch, which is a nice touch. I was unwilling to pay the silly money of some installer solutions and in particular did not want a solution that I had to pay someone to programme. When I ordered the Fibaro switches the supplier programmed the basic parameters into it for me, type of fitting, dimmable, switch etc. These, however, are easily adjustable from the web based control system. I have not yet tried to programme any scenes.

 

My Sonos has never been connected to the Sonos Mesh network, only wifi. I wouldn't buy it when you had to buy an extra box. I think if your wifi was stable you would not have issues. I don't recall ever having an issue getting the app to connect.

 

 

So is this system easy to do as a DIY project or do you still need an electrician to sort the circuits etc? You mention that the supplier programmed the basic parameters but what does this mean? I am like you and that I have approached an HA company to just do a few lighting circuits in a kitchen/dining/lounge area and it was silly money so would like to try and do it myself. TIA

[AliG]

I am by no mean an expert on Fibaro, but here goes.

 

The main item you use is probably a Fibaro Dimmer 2, the manual gives pretty clear wiring instructions. Assuming there is room it should is in the box behind a light switch.

 

https://manuals.fibaro.com/content/manuals/en/FGD-212/FGD-212-EN-T-v1.3.pdf

 

It can work on a 2 wire system for retrofit, but 3 is better in a new build. It works with most kinds of light.

 

You need a Fibaro Homecenter to control the system.

 

The Dimmer 2s or other wireless units create a mesh network using z-wave technology. Theoretically you can add new units using the mesh, however, I have found that I could only get them to add if they were in direct range of the Homecenter (I had to buy a 30m ethernet cable and move it around the house). The mesh seems to work fine otherwise. Thus the main benefit of having the supplier set up the system was that they powered up the individual units and connected them to the Homecenter before sending them out, saving this step. However, where we ended up making changes to the system I was easily able to add or subtract extra units.

 

Assuming that your electrician's skills are sufficient to wire in the units, the set up on the Homecenter is pretty simple. The Dimmer 2s auto calibrate on first power up and set some of their own parameters. You can go in though and set things such as are you using toggle/two way/one way switches. This is a simple web based system. The parameters that you can be changed can be seen in the manual. Really the things you are looking at for most circuits are pretty basic, switch type, dimmable etc.

 

We have 13 units in the house plus the Homecenter 2. The electrician charged £50 per unit extra to wire them up, some of the LEDs require an extra component to increase resistance for the dimmers to work correctly. The whole system including £350 to set it up before hand cost £1700 including VAT.

 

3 of the units are for blind/curtain control and not currently used.

 

I can control the lights from an app and also have cloud based remote access. There are no ongoing charges. I also got it up and running on Alexa a few weeks ago pretty painlessly, there is a pre written Alexa skill available. You literally just tell Alexa to switch on "name of the light in the system"

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

17 minutes ago, AliG said:

I am by no mean an expert on Fibaro, but here goes.

 

The main item you use is probably a Fibaro Dimmer 2, the manual gives pretty clear wiring instructions. Assuming there is room it should is in the box behind a light switch.

 

https://manuals.fibaro.com/content/manuals/en/FGD-212/FGD-212-EN-T-v1.3.pdf

 

It can work on a 2 wire system for retrofit, but 3 is better in a new build. It works with most kinds of light.

 

You need a Fibaro Homecenter to control the system.

 

The Dimmer 2s or other wireless units create a mesh network using z-wave technology. Theoretically you can add new units using the mesh, however, I have found that I could only get them to add if they were in direct range of the Homecenter (I had to buy a 30m ethernet cable and move it around the house). The mesh seems to work fine otherwise. Thus the main benefit of having the supplier set up the system was that they powered up the individual units and connected them to the Homecenter before sending them out, saving this step. However, where we ended up making changes to the system I was easily able to add or subtract extra units.

 

Assuming that your electrician's skills are sufficient to wire in the units, the set up on the Homecenter is pretty simple. The Dimmer 2s auto calibrate on first power up and set some of their own parameters. You can go in though and set things such as are you using toggle/two way/one way switches. This is a simple web based system. The parameters that you can be changed can be seen in the manual. Really the things you are looking at for most circuits are pretty basic, switch type, dimmable etc.

 

We have 13 units in the house plus the Homecenter 2. The electrician charged £50 per unit extra to wire them up, some of the LEDs require an extra component to increase resistance for the dimmers to work correctly. The whole system including £350 to set it up before hand cost £1700 including VAT.

 

3 of the units are for blind/curtain control and not currently used.

 

I can control the lights from an app and also have cloud based remote access. There are no ongoing charges. I also got it up and running on Alexa a few weeks ago pretty painlessly, there is a pre written Alexa skill available. You literally just tell Alexa to switch on "name of the light in the system"

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that info. Where did you purchase the Fibaro stuff from pls?

[AliG]

Aclass Technology

 

http://www.aclasstechnology.com

 

There is a lot of good info on this kind of stuff on AVForums.com

Edited January 3, 2019 by AliG

[MrMagic]

Just to add - I've also gone the same route as @AliG - I chose to 'star'/radial wire everything back to a central point and then install all the dimmers in a central box. My reasoning was that if I ever wanted to switch away from Fibaro I could either just join the wires together to make it act like a regular dumb light and switch or put in different dimmers from another manufacturer.

 

I've got - 

Fibaro Dimmers - Lounge, Kitchen x 2, Playroom, Bed 1, Bed 2

Fibaro Relays - Worktop Lights, Outside Lights, Landing Lights, Bed 3, Bathroom Fan

Plug in dimmers - TKBHome x 2

Plug in relays - TKBHome x 1

 

The Fibaro dimmers are quite nice in that they have a "B" switch input... so in the lounge and bedroom I've put a 2 gang switch in, 1st one does the ceiling lights and the 2nd one does the "B" input which tells the dimmer to send a command to some extra plug in dimmers I have for table lamps, bedside lamps etc. You get all the benefits of those 5 amp lighting socket but without having all the extra wiring and fixed positions. (hopefully this makes sense, harder to explain in writing).

 

All of this works without the 'brain' as such but I'm also using Home Assistant (https://www.home-assistant.io/) to integrate with other services and Alexa/Google assistant. The Fibaro Home Center is better if you want less tinkering.

 

Same as AliG - switches work every time, app works 95% of the time. Switches also get 100% wife approval factor. - I think I went for a slightly different switch to AliG - I'm using the MK 4885WHI which is a single push switch, not a two position one.

 

@AliG - re: Having to move homecenter to add new modules - this is correct. When you put the modules in inclusion mode they only transmit at low power, this is to reduce the risk of you or someone else including them in their network by mistake. I'm using the Aeotec ZStick which is quite nice as it has a battery backup so I can pull the stick out and put it right next to the new module when including then plug it back in to my raspberryPi.

 

All the above sounds quite complex but I found it a really easy system to work with (DIY & IT confident). Good online community as well. The drawback with some of the more proprietary systems (Rako, Lutron etc) was that you had to be a paid up installer to get access to the manuals and secrets.

 

Purchased from Vesternet - https://www.vesternet.com/

Edited January 4, 2019 by MrMagic

[Jeremy Harris]

I think that building in the ability to completely change the control system is essential.  Anything controlled by a 'phone app will most probably be obsolete within a few years - look at the number of "old" apps that are no longer supported on even a 5 year old device; we've direct experience of this with a five year old colour laser printer no longer working with a five year old iPad and have just run into exactly the same problem with my 4 year old Android tablet not being able to run apps to control some car charge points (meant I've had to go and buy a new 'phone just to do this - damned annoying).  Being able to rip out any proprietary control system and replace it with a new one, without major redecoration work, would be high on my list of essentials.

 

I regret not having put power in for electric blinds.  We have blackout blinds in the bedrooms and several other sets of blinds around the house, and it seems far more tedious having to go around the house opening and closing them than it ever did when we had curtains.  I'm looking at fitting battery powered motors and remotes to all the blinds, which will means having to charge them up two or three times a year, but seems likely the only easy option, given that getting power neatly to the top of the window apertures would make a heck of a mess to do now.

 

 

[Adam2]

1 hour ago, MrMagic said:

I chose to 'star'/radial wire everything back to a central point and then install all the dimmers in a central box.

Sounds interesting.

 

So I get this right : 

- you wired each separately controlled lighting circuit back to a central location (presumably near the home centre)

- each circuit connected into the appropriate Fibaro comms unit

- each circuit though goes via a wall switch in case you needed to move away from Fibaro + also gives physical control if app not functioning

- plug-in dimmers - nothing special to do after the initial setup, as in no wiring just a regular 13A socket

 

correct?

 

For rooms where a motion-sensor is wanted for complete control of the light switched (not dimmable) is there any benefit in not just using a regular sensor (non-Fibaro/ZWave)?

 

So many choices ?

 

 

 

 

[AliG]

2 hours ago, JSHarris said:

I think that building in the ability to completely change the control system is essential. 

 

 

I too have considered this, perhaps the reason I limited myself. The switches will work even if the app doesn't but I do feel that companies may not keep support for these systems going long term.

 

I was considering the Brunt Blind Engine as an easy way to automate blinds, I note not great reviews on Amazon though although most of these are re app integration and bizarrely someone who complained it wouldn't stick to its mount using the included sticky pads. It is stupid that they included them, but really how could you generate enough torque to ride a blind whilst stuck to the wall with a little foam pad.

[jack]

3 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Anything controlled by a 'phone app will most probably be obsolete within a few years - look at the number of "old" apps that are no longer supported on even a 5 year old device;

 

I don't know about that. There are various open source solutions that continue to be developed, as well as proprietary solutions like Loxone which (for the moment) don't charge for their app. The app is updated reasonably frequently (I should say that I only very rarely use the app - a couple of times a month at most).

 

I think the bigger danger is a company going out of business and leaving you with unsupported hardware.

 

That said, as long as you stick to non-proprietary input and output hardware (eg, retractive switches for inputs, relays and/or DMX for outputs), you're reasonably future-proof. I could replace my Loxone system with another solution with little change to any of the wiring, although it would be a pig of a job just based on complexity.