Disabled access

[nod]

With our impending move to our new home We are thinking about a sign off certificate One thing I’m not sure about is disabled access 

Whilst we have installed a Low threshold to the side door 

It’s unlikely that any of the flags or pavers will be laid prior to us moving in would a timber ramp satisfiy BC 

Or will they withhold the certificate. Till we have laid a path to the side door and constructed a permanent  ramp

[recoveringbuilder]

I would think you’ll need to have a path for sign off, I don’t know about a wooden ramp if that would be acceptable, I remember our last build we had made a mistake with the type of door we’d bought and building control came out and said it wouldn’t do, we had visions of having to rip it out and buy another but my hubby built the ramp right up to the threshold on the outside and made a small concrete ramp inside which we later removed and that was sufficient to pass. We also had to have a hard standing from a car to the ramp and a path to bin storage.

[jack]

Jeremy mentioned someone he knew building a temporary ramp out of a weak concrete mix. They just broke it up after signoff.

 

I'm going to try for signoff without doing anything about ours. If they insist, I'll ask them for their help in coming up with a solution. It's private building control, so I'm hoping this isn't something they're going to care too much about.

 

I know for a fact that I could pull a wheelchair across the existing threshold if needed, and if we had a friend or relative who needed level access, we'd buy or make a portable ramp.

[ProDave]

Building control here specifically prohibit timber ramps because they know they may not be permanent.

[newhome]

57 minutes ago, Christine Walker said:

 

I would think you’ll need to have a path for sign off, I don’t know about a wooden ramp if that would be acceptable

 

 

They might be more fussy in Scotland. We had to send full details of our disabled ramp to building control and they were quite fussy. It was all built out of stone / pavers. There was a small height difference across the threshold on the inside and they were really picky about it and made me put a wooden ramp inside to smooth the transition. Even when the threshold was completely level they didn’t want to sign it off as there was a 10mm rise to get on the bottom of the ramp. They discussed it in the office and agreed that it would be ok in the end. Crazy as a wooden ramp clearly is going to be ripped out! 

 

@Hecateh‘s building inspector OTOH said that he didn’t care if there was a disabled access IIRC. 

[Onoff]

Imo it's all very well putting in then slyly doing away with disabled access but if you or yours should suddenly find themselves needing it it's the last thing you want to be worrying about. If you're currently the primary DIYer you'll be having to get someone else in potentially. It might even mean you're kept in hospital.

 

Speaking from experience of late with elderly parents who've taken a turn for the worse. Resisisted the offer of a (free) rewire to mainly move all sockets and switched to accessible heights "because of the mess". We then got brochures and quotes in to turn the dilapidated, tiny bathroom into a wet room. At the mo it is an absolute nightmare for the carers to manouvre in there. Its even still got the lead wastes in there. The resistance here was down to cost, not that they can't afford it. They cited that the Social putting some grab handles on the wall for nothing (after the last fall) was enough. With a dementia patient covered in the brown stuff you want to sit them in a chair and hose them down...like SWMBO does with me!

 

(I have to try and laugh).

Edited September 23, 2018 by Onoff

[recoveringbuilder]

I’ve been a carer and know about all the difficulties being disabled brings but I really can’t see the logic in ramps being a must in private one off builds , we had to fit a wide door on our downstairs bathroom in our last build for wheelchair access but the bedrooms were upstairs so should anyone disabled want to buy our house in future they would have had to have a stairlift fitted anyway.

[nod]

Thank you for the reply’s 

I have a low threshold on the inside Onece I finish the tiling today there will be about 10 mil difference on the inside I no problem with putting in something Permian this As more brother in law is disabled and will finished up living with us again at some stage

Its more a time factor 

I could probably put block pavers in and change them next summer 

To satisfy BC

 

Mainstream builders are pretty keen with the low thresholds 

But often take it to an exstreme 

leaving only room for a vinyl floor covering 

nNo chance of tiling or carpet

[Onoff]

Without measuring I don't think my parents place has doors wide enough for wheelchair access. The doors are later DG types so the thresholds are even higher than original. Then there's the 90deg entrance through the tiny porch after negotiating the foot high step up. 

[Ed Davies]

My planning permission and warrant were issued with plans for a wooden ramp with no problem other than quibbles about the length and need for a rest place along the way. Actually, it's finished up with the floor level closer to the parking ground level than the plans assumed so the final ramp will be a lot shorter and straighter anyway. I'm thinking of having a drawbridge ?

 

I can see why they want as many homes as possible to be wheelchair accessible. Partly a matter of keeping people out of the NHS. Also it's not just for people living there but also for random visitors. I do think the obsession with very flat access (10mm thresholds, etc) is a bit much - if you can't get over something, say, 30mm high then you probably couldn't get to the house in the first place. Also, the idea that disabled == wheelchair is a bit silly, there are plenty of other problems people can have with vision, balance, dexterity, etc, that would be helped by a bit of careful design (or, more often, harmed by thoughtless design).

[Jeremy Harris]

My father was a wheelchair user for years, and modifying our old family home was a lot of work.  We ended up building an extension at the back to house a downstairs bedroom, converting the old cloakroom into a wheelchair accessible shower and having three or four doors widened to allow wheelchair access.

 

One of my best friends is also a wheelchair user, so we had him around to test some of the accessibility stuff, like getting in and out of the WC.

 

That made me think carefully about details in our new build, so I fitted 33" wide doors everywhere, all with flush thresholds (which incidentally makes cleaning a lot easier).  I didn't want a ramp at the front door, because it would have taken up a lot of space and would have spoiled the look, so instead I had the ramp lead up the side path to the back door, where it doesn't even look like an access ramp.  I also made sure there was a big, flat, paved area at the top of the ramp, outside the back door, to allow a wheelchair to be easily turned through 90 deg.  That ramp is also handy because part way down it there's another flat area off to one side where the wheelie bins sit, and the rest of the ramp down to the drive makes wheeling the bins easier.

 

As @jack mentioned, a friend of mine built a really nice stone clad farm house style build in Yorkshire, and didn't want a ramp to spoil the look, so he covered his lovely York stone steps with polythene sheet and laid a weak concrete mix ramp over them to comply with the access requirements of Part M.  Once he'd had the house signed off he just broke up the concrete and cleaned up the underlying stone.  He also objected to having to have the switches and sockets half way up the wall, so had his electrician run two sets of boxes in for every switch and socket, one set where he wanted them, with cables looping in and out of them, and one set that was Part M compliant.  He papered over the unused boxes, so when his house was inspected all the switches and outlets were compliant, then got his electrician back before he decorated the place to fit all the outlets and switches where he wanted them, filling in the other set of boxes to hide them.  I can't say I agree with what he did, but he's as stubborn as a mule, hates rules and regulations with a passion, and wasn't going to have anyone tell him how he should have things in his own house.  He's close to my age, and he built the house ten years or more ago, and I doubt it will be long before he starts to wonder about the wisdom of being so damned stubborn about Part M.

[newhome]

43 minutes ago, Christine Walker said:

 

I’ve been a carer and know about all the difficulties being disabled brings but I really can’t see the logic in ramps being a must in private one off builds , we had to fit a wide door on our downstairs bathroom in our last build for wheelchair access but the bedrooms were upstairs so should anyone disabled want to buy our house in future they would have had to have a stairlift fitted anyway.

 

 

I agree to a certain extent but there is no way we could have predicted what happened to my husband albeit that was pretty unusual. The downstairs wet room was a godsend as he could have a proper shower chair in there rather than a tiny stool and we ended up making a bedroom for him downstairs as there was no way he would have the oak staircase ruined by a stairlift. He could still walk a few steps so didn’t need the wheelchair ramp but couldn’t climb stairs. 

 

I do think it’s crazy to have to have a disabled WC in a one bed starter home however. Often the loo is about the same size as the kitchen! There is no way a wheelchair user could live in one as the only proper washing facilities and bedrooms are upstairs. 

[Onoff]

Because of mitral valve reurgitation issues my father's blood doesn't pump/oxygenate the way it should. Standing up for too long he gets massively swollen lower legs (he's skinnier than a rake btw). He can't either lie dead flat due to pulmonary hypertension. If he moves suddenly then, bends too low, reaches too high he can get dizzy and fall. This latest break is from him simply sitting up in bed too fast and in effect fainting. Having the sockets higher and switched lower would mean he has to bend less, struggle less etc. I'm a huge fan of the Part M heights btw.

[PeterW]

13 minutes ago, Ed Davies said:

do think the obsession with very flat access (10mm thresholds, etc) is a bit much - if you can't get over something, say, 30mm high then you probably couldn't get to the house in the first place

 

I thought this too and was confirmed by a council spec for a pavement to road threshold that has a max 35mm step from road to ramp and a 1:8 gradient requirement. Seems odd that the public roads are vastly different to imposition on private houses. 

 

The treatment of the rules between England and Scotland is interesting where the English rules only require entry level WC and access yet the Scottish build in the requirement for walls capable of taking a stairlift yet neither seem worried with anything but 762mm doors elsewhere in the property than the deemed access level ..!

 

 

[nod]

33 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

My father was a wheelchair user for years, and modifying our old family home was a lot of work.  We ended up building an extension at the back to house a downstairs bedroom, converting the old cloakroom into a wheelchair accessible shower and having three or four doors widened to allow wheelchair access.

 

One of my best friends is also a wheelchair user, so we had him around to test some of the accessibility stuff, like getting in and out of the WC.

 

That made me think carefully about details in our new build, so I fitted 33" wide doors everywhere, all with flush thresholds (which incidentally makes cleaning a lot easier).  I didn't want a ramp at the front door, because it would have taken up a lot of space and would have spoiled the look, so instead I had the ramp lead up the side path to the back door, where it doesn't even look like an access ramp.  I also made sure there was a big, flat, paved area at the top of the ramp, outside the back door, to allow a wheelchair to be easily turned through 90 deg.  That ramp is also handy because part way down it there's another flat area off to one side where the wheelie bins sit, and the rest of the ramp down to the drive makes wheeling the bins easier.

 

As @jack mentioned, a friend of mine built a really nice stone clad farm house style build in Yorkshire, and didn't want a ramp to spoil the look, so he covered his lovely York stone steps with polythene sheet and laid a weak concrete mix ramp over them to comply with the access requirements of Part M.  Once he'd had the house signed off he just broke up the concrete and cleaned up the underlying stone.  He also objected to having to have the switches and sockets half way up the wall, so had his electrician run two sets of boxes in for every switch and socket, one set where he wanted them, with cables looping in and out of them, and one set that was Part M compliant.  He papered over the unused boxes, so when his house was inspected all the switches and outlets were compliant, then got his electrician back before he decorated the place to fit all the outlets and switches where he wanted them, filling in the other set of boxes to hide them.  I can't say I agree with what he did, but he's as stubborn as a mule, hates rules and regulations with a passion, and wasn't going to have anyone tell him how he should have things in his own house.  He's close to my age, and he built the house ten years or more ago, and I doubt it will be long before he starts to wonder about the wisdom of being so damned stubborn about Part M.

A picture would be helpful Jerremy

[Jeremy Harris]

The only one I have of the ramp to our back door is this one that shows our solar powered outside lights.  The furthest light is over the back door, so you can just make out the flat paved area there for turning a wheelchair more easily.  The black recycling bin is sat off the ramp on the gravel that's all around the house.  The wheelie bin flat area is where the lump of left over foundation EPS and other rubbish is sat, at the bottom right.

 

 

 

 

This photo shows the front steps and in the background the start of the ramp from the end of the drive, again it was taken to show the solar outside lights at the front.  My car is parked a lot closer to the front door is this photo that it normally is; where it's normally parked there is loads of space to get a wheelchair, wheelie bin or whatever past.  You can just make out the wheelie bin storage area, behind the timber screen fence in the background, where the ramp turns around to run up to the back door:

 

[joe90]

I am just about to sort the floor to our new front door and porch which is our level access, er indoors wants a good thick front door mat but these are nearly 20mm thick and we are only allowed 10mm upstand from tiled floor to door threshold.

[Jeremy Harris]

8 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I am just about to sort the floor to our new front door and porch which is our level access, er indoors wants a good thick front door mat but these are nearly 20mm thick and we are only allowed 10mm upstand from tiled floor to door threshold.

 

The solution I've ended up with is to use thin (6mm) microfibre mats.  The smaller ones weren't great, so we've ended up with ones that are wider than the front and back doors by a fair bit, as these stay in place better on the travertine flooring. 

 

What I should have done is left mat wells by both doors, so that thicker doormats could have been dropped into them, but at the time we were having the floor tiled it hadn't occurred to me that mats would be a problem.

[newhome]

 

14 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I am just about to sort the floor to our new front door and porch which is our level access, er indoors wants a good thick front door mat but these are nearly 20mm thick and we are only allowed 10mm upstand from tiled floor to door threshold.

 

You’re lucky. I wasn’t allowed anything. Threshold had to be level with the tiles. Apparently rolling a wheelchair could be dangerous ? over a 10mm drop. If a wheelchair rolls away due to that they’d have a lot more difficulty getting from the parking area up to the front door where the disabled access is! 

[PeterW]

2 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

What I should have done is left mat wells by both doors, so that thicker doormats could have been dropped into them, but at the time we were having the floor tiled it hadn't occurred to me that mats would be a problem.

 

I fit mat wells into flooring as it looks better - usual problem though is the edging and I’ve now got a good local supplier of stainless angle who will TIG and polish the joints for £10 each. 

[Russell griffiths]

I intend to fit mat well into my tiled floor and fit tiles inside the mat well with a couple of blobs of silicon and grout, on sign of just pull out and fit the mat. 

 

I asked our bco about a covered area above the flat portion and he said he wasn’t fussed it was up to me if I put it in. 

[Gone West]

Our neighbours were told they had to fit a permanent access ramp before sign off.

We devised our ramp as part of our landscaping design. The first part of the paving is flat up to the edge of the house then it slopes gently over the next 3.5m up to the porch door. The BCO was happy as long as there weren't any steps greater than 15mm high.

 

 

 

[nod]

2 hours ago, JSHarris said:

The only one I have of the ramp to our back door is this one that shows our solar powered outside lights.  The furthest light is over the back door, so you can just make out the flat paved area there for turning a wheelchair more easily.  The black recycling bin is sat off the ramp on the gravel that's all around the house.  The wheelie bin flat area is where the lump of left over foundation EPS and other rubbish is sat, at the bottom right.

 

 

 

 

This photo shows the front steps and in the background the start of the ramp from the end of the drive, again it was taken to show the solar outside lights at the front.  My car is parked a lot closer to the front door is this photo that it normally is; where it's normally parked there is loads of space to get a wheelchair, wheelie bin or whatever past.  You can just make out the wheelie bin storage area, behind the timber screen fence in the background, where the ramp turns around to run up to the back door:

 

  Very nice and more practical than some of the ramps you see outside public buildings 

More of a gradual slope 

Thanks

[Ferdinand]

This reminds me that I failed to report back on the thread wrt a wheelchair for my mum.

We ended up with a 16" seat width item which folds, and is 600mm wide when unfolded.

 

This makes me wonder whether in fact they consider that standard doors are acceptable for the majority of users, and so do not demand them everywhere.

Ferdinand

 

Report here:

 

[Hecateh]

4 hours ago, newhome said:

 

@Hecateh‘s building inspector OTOH said that he didn’t care if there was a disabled access IIRC. 

 

I told him that the window company had installed standard threshold doors.  That we had had a conversation about needing level access but I had forgotten to specify it so was it necessary for me to get it changed.  He said not as it was a private self build dwelling.  I said that the drive was going to be built up with 150 mm of Type one and then the drive laid to bring it up level with the threshold but would still have the upstand but that I would probably move in before the drive was laid.  He said then that he was happy to sign off before the drive was laid so long as the base was down.

 

4 hours ago, Christine Walker said:

I’ve been a carer and know about all the difficulties being disabled brings but I really can’t see the logic in ramps being a must in private one off builds , we had to fit a wide door on our downstairs bathroom in our last build for wheelchair access but the bedrooms were upstairs so should anyone disabled want to buy our house in future they would have had to have a stairlift fitted anyway.

 

The building regs say that a entry level bathroom needs to have disabled access for visitors, not necessarily over night.  My doors are wide on that level but not on the lower ground (to the cloakroom) or my bedroom as the gap is not wide enough.  The one from my bedroom to the dressing room was built for a wide door but I had it made the same size as the bedroom entry door as I thought it would look odd with 2 different size doors and if I can get into the bedroom then I can get into the dressing room.