What WiFi system?

[Temp]

3 hours ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

Its the hardware and software within the APs (Wifi access points) that matters. The only effective solution is to use APs that support WiFi roaming and seamless handoff,  802.11r or a proprietary equivalent. The AP requires a special controller functionality within and the vast majority of home WiFi routers do not have it.

 

Without WiFi roaming, using the same SSID for multiple WIFI sources is generally not a good idea as, as you have found, it doesn't assist with roaming and it can make debuging more difficult.

 

Which APs are you using? Are they true APs or just home routers connected by ethernet cabling and set to bridge mode, each creating its own sub-net and with multiple NAT. Or even worse WiFi extenders connected wirelessly, again with multiple sub-nets and NAT, and likely a halving of data throughput?

 

 

 

Thanks. At the moment I have a Billion BiPack 8800NL router (with internal wifi) and a pair of DrayTek AP 800's. All connected together by wire and a Netgear switch.  All same network, no subnets. All IP addresses mobile or wired are allocated by DHCP in the router.

 

Doesn't look like any of this kit supports 802.11r but as it all works very well otherwise I guess I can live without the seamless roaming. I reverted to different SSID when I couldn't get the seamless roaming to work.

 

Aside: The wifi in the Billion router seems good considering it doesn't have an external antenna. Better than the Draytek or Linksys stuff I've had previously.

 

 

 

[Dreadnaught]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

external antenna

 

External antennae to make one's router look like a bristling stealth fighter jet strikes me as just marketing. There are few situations where an external antenna is really justified. After all, mobile phones have long since dispensed with them.

 

Antenna design is a fascinating subject all to itself.

[AliG]

We have a system using the Ubiquiti AC Lite product. With 100MB Virgin WiFi awe are getting over 80MB over WiFi to a laptop.

 

They should also have enough speed to continue to work as your internet connection speeds up, I am tempted to change my Virgin subscription up to 300MB to see what happens.

 

I noticed the other day an article about people getting less than half the speed they pay for on their internet connection. I suspect that this is based on Speedtests done over WiFi. The reason it is so slow is often the poor WiFi not the poor connection.

 

In our last house a 75MB Sky connection(the actual speed the fibre modem was connecting at) dropped to around 45MB over WiFi in the room closest to the router, 35MB in other rooms with Sky Q boxes and 15-25 in the rest of the house.

 

Try not to use WiFi extender type products, they cripple your WiFi speed. Before I connected all my Sky Q boxes up using ethernet in the old house, they connected 2 wireless extenders into the system and the speed dropped to 11MB. These eat up your bandwidth. 

 

I would put a Ubiquiti AC Lite on each floor connected over WiFi. They are £75ish each on Amazon, or £300 for 5.

Edited May 23, 2018 by AliG

[Temp]

Using www.Fast.com I get 49Mbps to a reasonably modern PC over wire and 44-46 Mbps to an old Android Tablet over wire and Wifi , 38-40Mbps to a moto G5 over wire and wifi. Perhaps not the greatest test but that's about the limit of our fibre and wire connection.

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Temp

[Adsibob]

On 21/05/2018 at 11:23, Bitpipe said:

Not sure why you think that extending your private home network around the house would incur any subscription cost? You obv. pay for the home internet connection (of whatever flavour) but after that its up to you.

Some mesh systems give you only limited functionality without a subscription, and fuller functionality with a small charge of £2 or £3 a month.

[Adsibob]

On 23/05/2018 at 21:19, AliG said:

I would put a Ubiquiti AC Lite on each floor connected over WiFi. They are £75ish each on Amazon, or £300 for 5.

Do I understand correctly that this is not a mesh system? If so, what's the disadvantages of mesh compared to this?

[AliG]

Sorry that should have said connected over ethernet.

 

The advantage of a mesh system is it doesn't not need any cabling.

[Dudda]

Like AliG I'd also suggest the Ubiquiti WiFi AP's. I've two of them, one one each floor, powered by POE. 

[Iceverge]

Ubiquiti +1

[Temp]

For extending WiFi coverage I reckon its best to send it over the mains to a plug in WiFi AP. 

 

If you use WiFi to extend WiFi you're using up the available spectrum that could be used for more access points. At least that's my thinking.

 

 

[Thorfun]

another Ubiquiti user here. ?

[joth]

44 minutes ago, Temp said:

For extending WiFi coverage I reckon its best to send it over the mains to a plug in WiFi AP. 

 

Best is to send if over CAT6.  Ethernet over Mains is an inferior second place to that.

 

Another happy +1 user of Ubiquiti here, but it is at the higher tech (and cost and complexity to use) end.   I hear good things about the TP-Link mesh products too. 

[Temp]

31 minutes ago, joth said:

Best is to send if over CAT6.  Ethernet over Mains is an inferior second place to that.

Agreed. But if you don't have that installed...

[epsilonGreedy]

52 minutes ago, joth said:

Ethernet over Mains is an inferior second place to that.

 

 

This is a strange technology, experiences seem polarized between "works surprising well" to "it was an utter disaster". I was in the later category.

 

Has anyone worked out what are the make or break factors with this technology?

[joth]

15 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

This is a strange technology, experiences seem polarized between "works surprising well" to "it was an utter disaster". I was in the later category.

 

Has anyone worked out what are the make or break factors with this technology?

 

Both (/all) access points need to be on the same phase! Ideally, on the same ring main / breaker.

 

Don't plug it into an lead/socket with any sort of surge protector / conditioner / isolator.

Plug directly into the wall socket, not an extension lead/splitter.

 

Finally, throw it out and run some cat6. A bit of cable stapled to the skirting never goes out of style.

 

[puntloos]

Yep, Ubiquiti here too, with one of the bigger reasons being the wifi access points with gig-Ethernet cables between the points. 

It's certainly prosumer so menus can be daunting if you're looking for 'that one thing' but frankly the defaults are sensible and getting it going is pretty straightforward.

[epsilonGreedy]

23 hours ago, joth said:

Both (/all) access points need to be on the same phase! Ideally, on the same ring main / breaker.

 

 

I failed to get it working in an old rental property that had two side-by-side consumer units following a large property extension.

 

There was some sort of Ethernet connection but it kept resetting.

Edited December 22, 2021 by epsilonGreedy

[PeterW]

Depending on what’s wired / not in the house either Tenda Nova mesh using mains sockets for power or TP-Link Omada on PoE are good choices. 

[SimonD]

On 21/12/2021 at 13:36, joth said:

 

Both (/all) access points need to be on the same phase! Ideally, on the same ring main / breaker.

 

Don't plug it into an lead/socket with any sort of surge protector / conditioner / isolator.

Plug directly into the wall socket, not an extension lead/splitter.

 

Finally, throw it out and run some cat6. A bit of cable stapled to the skirting never goes out of style.

 

 

That's definitely the common wisdom of this and a rule I used to follow. However, surprising as it might seem, I've broken almost all of these rules with our current temporary site electrics. Different ring mains, 2 breakers and many, sometimes multiple extension leads. Surprisingly my TP-link mains extenders work amazingly across my whole site, and seamlessly too. I have no idea how it's all worked so well. The only rule I haven't been able to break is the surge protector.

 

[puntloos]

On 21/12/2021 at 13:36, joth said:

 

Both (/all) access points need to be on the same phase! Ideally, on the same ring main / breaker.

 

Don't plug it into an lead/socket with any sort of surge protector / conditioner / isolator.

Plug directly into the wall socket, not an extension lead/splitter.

 

Finally, throw it out and run some cat6. A bit of cable stapled to the skirting never goes out of style.

 

I'm somewhat confused as to why it has to be on the same ring/phase/breaker? 

[joth]

5 minutes ago, puntloos said:

I'm somewhat confused as to why it has to be on the same ring/phase/breaker? 

"Ideally" != "Has to be". It might work, but likely not as reliable and fast as it could be.

 

They work better (faster throughput) the shorter the length of mains wire between access points. Putting them on different circuits almost certainly increases the distance, putting them on different CUs probably increases the distance further, and different phases... Well. 

MCB/RCBOs can add further signal attenuation.

 

 

electromagnetic signal propagation is more of a black art than a science in most engineering books. 

[puntloos]

28 minutes ago, joth said:

"Ideally" != "Has to be". It might work, but likely not as reliable and fast as it could be.

 

They work better (faster throughput) the shorter the length of mains wire between access points. Putting them on different circuits almost certainly increases the distance, putting them on different CUs probably increases the distance further, and different phases... Well. 

MCB/RCBOs can add further signal attenuation.

 

 

electromagnetic signal propagation is more of a black art than a science in most engineering books. 

Oh sorry I just realised you're talking about powerline network. Then it makes sense. I thought you were saying normal wifi APs (connected over air or by cat6 backhaul) should be on the same ring/phase. Nevermind!

[joth]

7 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Oh sorry I just realised you're talking about powerline network. Then it makes sense. I thought you were saying normal wifi APs (connected over air or by cat6 backhaul) should be on the same ring/phase. Nevermind!

LOL! Yes that was not at all clear given the title of this thread. Sorry.

Yes, power line APs, not wifi APs.

 

[Nickfromwales]

I was once tempted away from Uniquity WAP’s by a HA company, as they were adamant that Ruckus were a far better device ( at roughly £2x ) but with all of the Ubiquity stuff I’ve installed for clients ( who do not / will not tolerate poor performance / unreliability etc ) has performed way above my expectations. 
I particularly liked one version of their wall mounted AP which has a data throughput socket at the base of the unit. That allowed the 1x Cat6 cable to support the AP but also give an additional data outlet to connect a hard-wired bit of kit to, gleaned off that AP. 
If you have for eg a PC in situ now, plugged into a Cat6 outlet, you could buy this AP and connect the PC back to it whilst creating a WAP point in that location. If it’s not a PoE point now, just use the supplied PoE injector to get the power source for the AP and you’re up and running. 
I’m very happy with ubiquity to date, and just bought a couple of the long range ( not Lite ) AP’s for my own place. Buckets of WiFi off them. 

[Hilldes]

I was looking at Ubiquity from the start of this thread in 2018.  I found it was hard to locate the best product for me from the manufacturers web site and when looking on retail sites all the reviews seem a few years old which made me wonder if I’d be buying old stock.
 

After reading reviews on line I bought two TP-Link EAP225 V3. The V3 is the latest version I believe. Haven’t used them in the new house yet, but been running one from the BT home hub in the new house plant room via CAT6 to the caravans and coverage seems very good across the two caravans. Very easy to setup too - don’t even need to enter the Wi-Fi password of the router when you connect to the router via CAT6.