Should I Project Manage Build?

[ultramods]

We are at the stage where we are deciding if we should project manage the build or whether the architect should.

 

The architect has managed the tendering process and we are planning on using the following companies:

Company 1 Supply Only Timeframe

Company 2 for all siteworks, building, roofing, Joinery including frame erection and outside paving/driveway

Company 3 for electrics

Company 4 for plumbing 

Company 5 for Ames taping and decorating

 

I thought that because company 2 is doing most of the higher risk work that it would be OK for me to Project Manage, however when i told the architect today that I was planning to PM he sent me the following:

 

"I seriously advise against Project managing yourself by the way - H&S responsibilities, time co-ordinating trades, detailing issues, arranging materials to name but a few but it is your call. Remember all these trades have priced works based on efficient co-ordination so don’t be surprised at a “claims conscious” mentality from them."

 

The architect has proposed that he will PM the build for £15,000 (inc VAT), which is 4-5% of the build budget of £320,000. He anticipates spending 1-2 days per week on the project.

 

The house will be 326 sqm, 2 storey, timberframe with a combination of block/render walls and granite walls. We aren't building to passive standard, but still want it to be well sealed and u-value around 0.11 - 0.15. UFH on ground floor, with mains gas for gas boiler.

 

The site is a level corner plot with roadside access from 2 sides. - I have attached the house plans.

 

In terms of my experience, I have software project management experience and my wife is an accountant. Neither of us have ever managed a construction project before, however I have spent the last 2 years researching and designing the house and have read various books on the subject.

 

I am a control freak with an attention for detail and know even if I let the architect PM I would still want to be heavily involved and I know I would be willing to spend more time sourcing materials to get the best price.

 

We have already agreed that we will be supplying the Kitchen, sanitryware and other shower fittings and the cantilevered stairs. 

 

I could be on site until 08:40 every morning for a daily meeting etc. 

 

In terms of budget we could afford the PM, however would prefer to use the money on furnishings and just not sure if it's required.

 

The only issue I see in terms of the trades being delayed is that the mortgage is in arrears, which could cause delays, however this would cause delays regardless of who is the PM.

 

What do people think?

House_plans_and_elevations.pdf

Edited April 18, 2018 by ultramods

[newhome]

I would always opt to PM myself because like you that’s my background and I’m a bit of a control freak. The flip side of that was that my husband understood more of the building process so he was able to oversee that work such as ensuring that the joists were put in as per the spec that the builder seemed to be doing a variation of at one stage. I wouldn’t have been able to do that. We also had the luxury that my husband was on site every day as he was living there and doing some of the work himself. 

 

Understanding the dependencies is important and they are different from software development of course. The core principles of project management are the same but I found organising builders and getting them on site at the right time much more challenging than a work project! And ordering materials, lead times etc need to be fully understood too as any down time you will be responsible for. 

 

The quote you have to build is pretty good @ under 1k per m2. There is much that can happen that can alter that so go in with your eyes open if you do take this on. 

 

For me, a self build was about being involved in the project management too so it was important that we covered this role, but others probably don’t feel that way so are happy for someone else to cover the project management. It was hard work and not without its challenges but I would choose that route again if I was ever mad enough to do another self build. 

[Ian D]

25 minutes ago, ultramods said:

We are at the stage where we are deciding if we should project manage the build or whether the architect should.

 

The architect has managed the tendering process and we are planning on using the following companies:

Company 1 Supply Only Timeframe

Company 2 for all siteworks, building, roofing, Joinery including frame erection and outside paving/driveway

Company 3 for electrics

Company 4 for plumbing 

Company 5 for Ames taping and decorating

 

I thought that because company 2 is doing most of the higher risk work that it would be OK for me to Project Manage, however when i told the architect today that I was planning to PM he sent me the following:

 

"I seriously advise against Project managing yourself by the way - H&S responsibilities, time co-ordinating trades, detailing issues, arranging materials to name but a few but it is your call. Remember all these trades have priced works based on efficient co-ordination so don’t be surprised at a “claims conscious” mentality from them."

 

The architect has proposed that he will PM the build for £15,000 (inc VAT), which is 4-5% of the build budget of £320,000. He anticipates spending 1-2 days per week on the project.

 

The house will be 326 sqm, 2 storey, timberframe with a combination of block/render walls and granite walls. We aren't building to passive standard, but still want it to be well sealed and u-value around 0.11 - 0.15. UFH on ground floor, with mains gas for gas boiler.

 

The site is a level corner plot with roadside access from 2 sides. - I have attached the house plans.

 

In terms of my experience, I have software project management experience and my wife is an accountant. Neither of us have ever managed a construction project before, however I have spent the last 2 years researching and designing the house and have read various books on the subject.

 

I am a control freak with an attention for detail and know even if I let the architect PM I would still want to be heavily involved and I know I would be willing to spend more time sourcing materials to get the best price.

 

We have already agreed that we will be supplying the Kitchen, sanitryware and other shower fittings and the cantilevered stairs. 

 

I could be on site until 08:40 every morning for a daily meeting etc. 

 

In terms of budget we could afford the PM, however would prefer to use the money on furnishings and just not sure if it's required.

 

The only issue I see in terms of the trades being delayed is that the mortgage is in arrears, which could cause delays, however this would cause delays regardless of who is the PM.

 

What do people think?

House_plans_and_elevations.pdf

it looks great to me 

[ultramods]

1 minute ago, Ian D said:

it looks great to me 

@Ian D what does, me as PM or architect as PM ?

 

[Ian D]

The Plans 

[Ian D]

 

2 hours ago, Ian D said:

The Plans 

 

2 hours ago, Ian D said:

it looks great to me 

I wouldn't PM your self , there is a lot at risk 

[Declan52]

It's not hard to do the project manger role but it will take a lot of time and effort lining up all the many many different tasks that need done.

As has been documented here many times if you take on this role then ultimately the buck stops with you. Everything will be your responsibility so there is no where to hide if things go bad. 

Looking at your plans the windows will be your biggest risk. That's a lot of glass so it's how far ahead the lead time is will dictate a lot.

Your will need a power bank for your mobile as the main task will be constantly phoning companies and tradesmen to make sure they will be on site when they are meant to be.

The architects price of £15k would buy a real nice kitchen, bathroom so that is your motivation. Get a wall chart planner and map out the different stages and always allow a few days grace as with every build shit will and always does happen esp when you don't want it to.

It's a massive decision so make sure you and the missus are both fully prepared for what being in charge will bring.

[PeterW]

I would PM it, and if you’re ex software then your plan will be far more detailed than any construction PM plan from my experience. 

 

You can easily make the H&S stuff the contractor responsibility by way of contract - none of those are overlapping trades so they should be able to do work in isolation. 

 

Who is providing the materials, and on who’s accounts..? If the subs are supply and fit then it makes it easier. 

 

And who has agreed the contract terms as part of the tendering..? Penalties..? Non performance..? Monitoring ..? Architect needs to tell you that lot anyway whoever is the PM. 

 

Finally what is the contract build duration ..? That can indicate how accurate his price for PM is. 

[Alexphd1]

 Cracking plans 

 

Am I right in thinking your timber frame is form Scotframe? if so are they suppling windows etc?? makes life very easy!

 

If you genuneinly have time to project manage, regular on site and long nights at computer then I say yes 100%. Do not underestimate time involved though! 

[newhome]

Mine was Scotframe although they couldn’t supply the windows we wanted so we bought them from elsewhere. It didn’t mean that everything arrived on schedule however. We had a 3 day delay to the first delivery with pretty much no notice after the crane and builders were already booked to come on site. Luckily for us we were able to rearrange things at very short notice but you have to have time to organise such things as they occur. Then for the second delivery the lorry arrived without the roof trusses. The trusses eventually turned up at 6pm that evening but after a load of chasing. We then had to have the crane on hire for an additional day as we had expected them to be there much earlier and of course the joiners were expecting to be further forward than they were. Just 2 examples of the sort of issues that need time to address straightaway, not when you can fit it in around full time working.

 

Just go in with your eyes open. I wouldn’t have paid 15k either as I was sure my husband and I could cover this role between us. 

[ragg987]

Let me ask you a question: if your accountant wife "I do not need a PM for this software development I can do it myself" how would you feel?

 

I think effective PM requires:

• domain expertise
• planning and coordinating and identifying dependencies
• ability to recognise (or better still anticipate) an issue
• define the high-risk areas that will need extra attention
• adept at coaching / persuading / pushing
• thick skin

And agree with your architect re H&S aspects, though you could appoint Company 2 as the lead and hence responsible for this aspect.

 

Given you have to live with the PM decisions during the build (so extra costs when you miss a key dependancy) and also once you move into the house (a missed opportunity during the build that was spotted too late), then think hard before you decide to undertake it yourself.

 

I do not see PM as a cost item. A good PM will easily save you some or all of their costs compared to a poor PM. £15k seems a good investment PROVIDED you believe your architect is right for this role. Take references of that aspect before you commit.

 

We have all watched many episodes of Grand Designs where the client PM has led to disasters and groaned at the stupidity of their actions. I suspect when you are under pressure you risk falling into that trap. (Though I recognise that GD is for entertainment and disasters make for more entertaining TV than a smooth build.)

[joe90]

Well I PM,d my build but 1, I am retired.2, I am an ex builder. 3, my contractor ( only one) allocated me a PM but admitted he may not be needed knowing my background ( he was called in twice to help with a DPC issue I did not understand ?. 4, I am a laid back bloke and vowed not to get stressed over what I thought was a great project in my life.

 

i am very lucky in that I had a brilliant local builder and my build has gone without a major hitch ( minor ones but they always happen).

[Redoctober]

I too am at the early stages of Project Managing our build - The reasons are as follows -

 

TF being supplied and erected by Company 1.

Ground works, external wall, roof by Company 2.

Plumbing, electrics and joinery by associates of Company 2.

Windows and doors by Company 3.

Under floor heating / cylinder etc. by Company 4.

Most materials supplied by me.

 

I am now retired so will be on site most days, which helps as I do like to be involved. I have no previous build background but through being a member of this forum, reading and researching, I believe  this and my general methodical approach, will help me through this project. Fingers crossed and no doubt that sentiment will be well and truly tested as the months unfold!!

 

[Roundtuit]

I'm project managing our build, and as we approach the end, my observations would be:

• No one else  cares as much about the build quality as you do
• No one else is as focussed on getting the best best value out of your budget as you
• None of it is rocket science, but there is loads of it, and learning it as you go is hard graft

So, in summary, I'd say: don't be put off doing it yourself if you've got the stomach for it, because if you have got the stomach for it, you'll probably end up shadowing your project manager anyway. Good luck!

[Gone West]

I project managed our build and it is very time consuming. I wouldn't consider it unless you can be on site every day. You need to be confident your PM is going to do the job to the standard you want.

[HerbJ]

11 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

I project managed our build and it is very time consuming. I wouldn't consider it unless you can be on site every day. You need to be confident your PM is going to do the job to the standard you want.

 I agree with this.

I was PM my build and I was on site every day, including evenings and weekends when deliveries got delayed and when suppliers/subcontractors needed to be there.  My OH was also heavily involved in looking after key elements - bathrooms, selection of tiles, colours, fittings  etc.  She also acted as the Project Accountant.

 

It is a huge commitment  and I was retired, in the fortunate position to drop everything and treat it as a full time job.  By the way, Project Management was my profession, major construction of offshore installations and LNG facilities - multi $billion projects with  huge a huge staff support.  I found it very demanding, as I did not have a managing contractor but I managed and coordinated all the trades.  I did not have the specialist building knowledge but I was very experienced at managing contractors, budgets, schedule, legal/contracts, etc. and, crucially, I had a few friends who were developers and builders, who provided recommendation and advice when needed.

 

So, think long and hard about taking on the PM role by yourself, unless you can stay on top of every aspect of the build project every day.  On the other hand, it's not clear to me what  exactly your architect role will be , if he only spending 1 to 2 days a week on your project. So, I would recommend that you establish his roles and responsibilities, including

 

Budget

Cash flow and payment of contractors

Selection if contractors - how will you be involved with selection and approval

Legal and contract negotiation

Contract and scope changes

Resolution of technical issues - electrical, etc

Project insurance, including review of all contractor/subcontractors insurance

Interface with BC

Selection of materials and fittings - sanitaryware, tiles, kitchen,  etc etc

Delivery  and receipt of materials

Commissioning

etc 

etc

 

I compromise solution might be for you to employ a PM but first you need to establish and define the architect/PM proposed role and responsibilities. This will allow you to  develop and agree  an interface responsibility matrix  for what the PM  and  you are responsible for and what your key decision/hold /approval points need to be as the client. This should allow you to set  a sensible working arrangement and  ensure that the PM  is fulfilling his responsibilities to you as the client.

 

Best of luck with your house. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by HerbJ
typos

[Triple07]

Hi @ultramods, 

im project managing our build in Aberdeenshire as well as working full time, doing the work ourselves, and having a young family (and trying to sell our current home but that’s another story!)

 it’s not easy but it’s do-able and if I thought I was saving £15k it would have been a no-brainer. It is time consuming and at times stressful but if you are organised and able then I can’t see why you couldn’t do it, especially if you are using workmen that you trust.

My sister in law started her project with the same architectural Technician as you are using, but they parted ways before the build started and after a redesign with a different firm, went with a custom homes builder who project managed it for her. That worked best for her, she was on a tight timescale.

Much like you have said, Im too much of a control freak to have anyone else do my ordering and keep a fine eye on the budget, I make the time to get and compare (and haggle) different quotes, I just don’t believe an AT project manager would do that, especially if he has other projects he is managing or designing at the time. We have time, and are “in the trade” , and already had many trade accounts open, but even the window quotes alone saved over £6k between comparable companies.

We also have the luxury of the only people we are holding up,with any delays, would be ourselves. I guess only you know the answer but given that you mentioned the wife is an a accountant, I can’t see it being the VAT reclaim being an issue ! 

 

[ultramods]

On 4/18/2018 at 15:39, Alexphd1 said:

 Cracking plans 

 

Am I right in thinking your timber frame is form Scotframe? if so are they suppling windows etc?? makes life very easy!

 

If you genuneinly have time to project manage, regular on site and long nights at computer then I say yes 100%. Do not underestimate time involved though! 

Thanks. It won't be Scotframe as too expensive. Currently considering Angus Homes, Fleming Homes or Claymore.

[ultramods]

Thank you for all the comments, I was rather hoping that everyone would be saying yes for me as PM, however it looks like opinion is split 50-50.

 

I will need to think about it some more, however if the trades are organising their own raw materials and we only deal with different companies for the trades as planned then I am leaning towards me as PM.

 

My brother who is a PM for electrical construction projects has suggested having a clerk of works for some of the key stages, such as setting out, foundations etc. I think this sounds like a good idea and a clerk of works would be better at spotting any issues compared to an Architect.

 

[ultramods]

On 4/18/2018 at 15:19, PeterW said:

I would PM it, and if you’re ex software then your plan will be far more detailed than any construction PM plan from my experience. 

 

You can easily make the H&S stuff the contractor responsibility by way of contract - none of those are overlapping trades so they should be able to do work in isolation. 

 

Who is providing the materials, and on who’s accounts..? If the subs are supply and fit then it makes it easier. 

 

And who has agreed the contract terms as part of the tendering..? Penalties..? Non performance..? Monitoring ..? Architect needs to tell you that lot anyway whoever is the PM. 

 

Finally what is the contract build duration ..? That can indicate how accurate his price for PM is. 

The architect priced for the project lasting 8 months.

[Thedreamer]

I'm project managing our self build, doing it in stages as I don't have any rental costs and will continue to save and wait for the right tradesman for the our self build.

 

The plan for us:

 

1) Design, planning, access and services

2) Foundations

3) Joiner cutting kit, structural stuff and wind and water tight

4) The insides

5) Finishing off

 

I've currently done 1 and nearly done 2. But I'm spending most evening doing house stuff and usually a weekend day.

 

If you have lender you might have to consider what their requirements are, I'm needing a RICS QS to oversee inspections during the course of the build and therefore be the 'project manager'.

 

[TerryE]

I am another retiree with lT PM experience. I also did the PM on our build. Peter Stark made the point that you need to be on site pretty much every day. Do you honestly think that any architect would do this for £15k?

 

Our build went very smoothly, and I feel that this was because of a number of factors:

• We treated our tradesmen with respect, and became friendly with pretty much all of them. Most of the trades were either subcontracted to Alan, our ground works / skin contractor, or were at his recommendation. He is a bit anal on quality, so all of his subs were excellent. We also kept a close eye on any issues and were prepared to be flexible if something was eating into their contingencies. We also made sure that there were no unnecessary hold ups, as most tradesman will do a good job if they like you and they are working with their budget.
• It's always on the interfaces between subs that things can go badly wrong, but so I was a bit anal about tying these detail and responsibilities down. Especially in cases like the windows which involved the interface of three subs. 
• Trust but verify. There are critical periods, which when you must be on site: the foundation / slab pour, the TF erection, ... You need to check, check, check.
• Have a very clear idea of what trades you want to do yourself. We did all of the thermal design, plumbing, and carpentry, but that's because Alan's plumber was a bit traditional and we had a passive house design. I am a lot better carpenter than Alan's. 
• Jan did a lot of the procurement over the Internet. We could get better prices and faster delivery than using Alan's trade account with the local BMs. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by TerryE
Fix typos