Sleeplessness and self-building and self-help

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, ToughButterCup said:

Yer a man of hidden depths @Pocster. At least 5mm .

Exactly! . You find something else to obsess about ! 

[ToughButterCup]

7 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Worry is what gets me, ...

 

To curb the worry I have tried to  give up the things that trigger me negatively emotionally. 

...

 

The (expletive deleted)ety(expletive deleted)ery of TACO,  Stephen Miller and their lightweight crew has my whole German family bewitched. We're all here-we-go-yet-again.

Miller= Goebbels and TACO is ....phhhh

 

Like you, I've had to switch it off. The last 48 hours have been relative bliss. Put your strategy together with @Pocster's and we're getting somewhere I think.

 

Thanks @Iceverge

 

[ToughButterCup]

20 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Why sleep quality is so important – and so difficult to measure

 

What nine sleep researchers do to get their best night’s rest

 

 

@SteamyTea's helpful post, earlier in this thread is useful because it's brief and authoritative. By chance I also subscribe to The New Scientist, so I had a look at the link above and summarise it here (without using AI)   - mainly because its so focused and easy to follow.

• Plan your sleep times
• Lighting is important : dimmer in the evenings, lighter early in the day
• Bedrooms cooler than living rooms (much discussion of that on BH)
• Avoid stress before bed (triggers are verboten)
• Bed is for sleeping, its not for checking BH posts
• Its OK to be a bit insomniac occasionally 

Thanks @SteamyTea

[BotusBuild]

3 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

its not for checking BH posts

Or anything. Fullstops.

 

Leave the phone on charge in another room.

 

Read a book. I prefer detective based novel - it makes me think of something completely different as I drift off to sleep and forget what page I was on 😀 

Edited Monday at 19:49 by BotusBuild

[NSS]

@ToughButterCup, long time no speak, and I'm really sorry to read of your struggles. I don't have a magic solution for you, but I can tell you what has worked for me.

 

Firstly, I remember going to visit my parents many years ago. My old man had just redecorated their lounge. It looks great, I said. He jumped up from his armchair and dragged its twin from the corner it always sat in. Angrily, he pointed at a tiny mis-allignment in the wallpaper join in the corner, a near invisible flaw that nobody would have noticed even if it wasn't hidden behind an armchair. He was so stressed that he'd not achieved HIS perfection.

 

But what is perfection, and does it really matter if you don't achieve it?

 

Whilst our build was largely complete when we moved in, some of the minor details are still a little rough 8 years later. Does that bug me? Sure it does. And the perfectionist in me still rears its head from time to time, and gives me a sleepless night or two worrying as to what my old man would have said about it had he lived long enough to see it.

 

But, if you've read my earlier post, you'll appreciate that my number one objective was achieved. I've chosen to accept that is enough of a win - and certainly enough of one to overlook those less than perfect details - and to concentrate on living our best life (whilst we still can).

 

I'm not sure where you are with your build, but try to focus and give yourself credit for what you've already achieved, rather than what you have left to complete. And whatever else you do, don't lose sight of life, and the importance of enjoying it.

 

 

Edited Monday at 22:08 by NSS

[Iceverge]

Self building is a bit like golf in that rather futile pursuit of perfection I suppose. 

 

Mind you I don't play golf. 

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

It's been a while since I had to work nights, and had various instances of particularly long shifts to press through. I'm definitely finding that they have prepared me well for this 'experience'!

 

Personally, offloading some questions into this forum helps me. I have the notepad and pencil (tick), copious use of the iPad and the 'Procreate' app to annotate over images and drawings, but I typically find it takes a while to wind down from the day job and then spool-up some motivation to try and articulate the issue/challenge of the day. Then, a bit of Buildhub research before posting allows me to get the question out into the ether and hope that the following day an answer or two has nudged me a little further along.

 

Secondly, radio 4 comedy shows are an easy listen and by then I'm normally shattered.

 

Just know you're not alone in the challenge @ToughButterCup! Thanks for starting this thread.

[Onoff]

I wake early every single day, mind racing. Overwhelmed is how I'd describe it. 

Everywhere I look I've unfinished stuff. Be it practical projects or "sorting pensions out". It's a hole I can't seem to get out of. Money is tighter than it's probably ever been so tricky to justify buying materials. I'm back eating crap as a comfort so the health isn't great. There's stuff I can't discuss on a public forum. Then, though there's a select few I confide in, I worry it's unfair to lay it on them.  The Black Dog I think they call it. Shrink, life coach? 

 

I feel a bit entitled too. As in I'll help anybody, go the extra mile etc but it seems a bit one way. Just feels like a train I can't get off. 

[SteamyTea]

21 minutes ago, Onoff said:

unfinished stuff

Called 're-planning".

22 minutes ago, Onoff said:

sorting pensions out

Mine has been spent.just not by me.

22 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Money is tighter than it's probably ever been

Live like a student, I have been doing that for decades, why I do jobs that are well below me.

23 minutes ago, Onoff said:

stuff I can't discuss on a public forum

When I do that, the posts get edited, as of by magic.

24 minutes ago, Onoff said:

worry it's unfair to lay it on them

You can lay it on me.

[ToughButterCup]

That's sh¡te @Onoff. Brave of you to write that post. PM me and we'll have a natter if you like. If not that's OK too.

 

I started this thread not because I'm suffering any more than normal (for someone who's often hard-of -thinking) but because, after 10 years of it, I'm more aware of the range of challenges in self-building. And they're not all just nuts and bolts technical. 

 

Building a house or part of one or repairing one puts the average non builder through an emotional wringer. Because of the contexts in which we are forced to operate. There's so much money attached to it, there's so much fantasy attached: there's so much that we can't control.

 

And I'll bet that most of us non builders here are at or near the peak of their professional lives. That means in our jobs we're in control - expert if you like. And here we are spending more than we would like on people and processes we don't control.

 

Why not sit on a toboggan, put a mask on , choose a slope and cheerfully set off down the hill. Not ta worry lad, there's a snowdrift at the bottom. 

 

We've all landed in a self-build hole (snowdrift?). I've landed in several. 

 

Digging ourselves out of a hole in some sort of good order is an essential self-builders skill. And most of us avoid talking about it.

 

Clive: zero seven seven two zero four three six two zero four. Ring me.

 

Ian

 

 

 

[Big Jimbo]

When i was in banking, many moons ago, i had a fair bit of money spent on me, about reading people. It was years ago, butb has held me in good stead. Having been a member on here for quite a few years i believe @Onoff to be the sort of fella who would pop round with the box of screws you are short of. Stay and help, and expect nothing in return. I think quite a few people on here are similar.

If i had a few bob, and was not so bloody skint, i'd like to buy a camper van. I could travel around and rock up, just to give a helping hand to someof the people on here. I'd bring ,bacon, sausages, and rolls and tommy sauce. Frankly, i think i would have a load of fun, with the bonus feel good factor,knowing that you might have made a bit of difference. I have found that the older i get, my mental health is defo not what it used to be.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

buy a camper van. I could travel around and rock up, just to give a helping hand to someof the people on here

What a brilliant idea, be like The A Team, or Jules in Pulp Fiction after his epiphany.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

....

If i had a few bob, and was not so bloody skint, i'd like to buy a camper van. I could travel around and rock up, just to give a helping hand to someof the people on here. I'd bring ,bacon, sausages, and rolls and tommy sauce. Frankly, i think i would have a load of fun, with the bonus feel good factor,knowing that you might have made a bit of difference. I have found that the older i get, my mental health is defo not what it used to be.

 

BuilHub Umerjuncy Support Team. 

 

Imagine it; 

 

5 old codjers totter out of a fifteenth-hand VW camper stuffed with tools and too much building foam, grab their walking sticks, and zimmers and ring the doorbell...

 

Allo squire.... Stand back! We gottcha covered ....

 

Dream Team 

@Onoff because he knows stuff

@Pocster because he can bodge for Ingerlund

@ProDave cos he can keep smoke inside wires

@ToughButterCup because he can psychoanalyse anything 

@Big Jimbo cos it's his van

@SteamyTea because he knows his way round a sandwich , 

@SimonD cos he can do maths and read a plan

@jack cos he can sort out paperwork and smoothe ruffled feathers

@Russell griffiths because we'll need someone who knows his way round a chainsaw.

 

Sorted .

 

 

 

 

[-rick-]

15 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Imagine it; 

 

The makings of an entertaining TV show!

[Roger440]

12 hours ago, NSS said:

@ToughButterCup, long time no speak, and I'm really sorry to read of your struggles. I don't have a magic solution for you, but I can tell you what has worked for me.

 

Firstly, I remember going to visit my parents many years ago. My old man had just redecorated their lounge. It looks great, I said. He jumped up from his armchair and dragged its twin from the corner it always sat in. Angrily, he pointed at a tiny mis-allignment in the wallpaper join in the corner, a near invisible flaw that nobody would have noticed even if it wasn't hidden behind an armchair. He was so stressed that he'd not achieved HIS perfection.

 

But what is perfection, and does it really matter if you don't achieve it?

 

Whilst our build was largely complete when we moved in, some of the minor details are still a little rough 8 years later. Does that bug me? Sure it does. And the perfectionist in me still rears its head from time to time, and gives me a sleepless night or two worrying as to what my old man would have said about it had he lived long enough to see it.

 

But, if you've read my earlier post, you'll appreciate that my number one objective was achieved. I've chosen to accept that is enough of a win - and certainly enough of one to overlook those less than perfect details - and to concentrate on living our best life (whilst we still can).

 

I'm not sure where you are with your build, but try to focus and give yourself credit for what you've already achieved, rather than what you have left to complete. And whatever else you do, don't lose sight of life, and the importance of enjoying it.

 

 

 

Hmmm, trying to achieve perfection. Ive got that problem. Bad. 

 

Buying a small holding, has, to some extent, tempered that, as ive been forced to accept with acres of land, house and buildings, it cant all, ever, be perfect. 90% is good enough.

 

Except, when i see some of my 90% jobs, it still annoys me, knowing that i coulod have done better.

 

And knowing, because the roofer never suggested dry verges, and because i wasnt smart enough to know i need them, i now need to use retro fit ones. Which will offend me even as i fit them, with them being visible and with visible fixings on the barge boards..............

 

NSS said: I'm not sure where you are with your build, but try to focus and give yourself credit for what you've already achieved, rather than what you have left to complete. And whatever else you do, don't lose sight of life, and the importance of enjoying it.

 

Wise words, and ones i try to apply to myself, but not always succesfully

 

[ToughButterCup]

11 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

...

Except, when i see some of my 90% jobs, it still annoys me, knowing that i coulod have done better.

...

 

 

 

Ugh.

The only way I know my way round that one is - acceptance and then to become absorbed in something else.

In my case self-deportation to the North Pyrenees and a couple of months walking west to east along the GR10.

 

@Pocster's post earlier mentions his variant of the same thing.

[SteamyTea]

59 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

sandwich

Sorted.

[Big Jimbo]

I'm going to need a coach, if i have toget that many bods in. If anybody wants brown sauce, they have to bring there own. I would be sooooo much fun. The first drive would be spent with @SteamyTea trying to get me to get my w, and W,s the right way around.

[SteamyTea]

11 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

get my w, and W,s the right way around

It is easy, if named after someone i.e. Mr Watt, then in is capital W. Only use lower case capital, w, when using the full word watt, unless it is Mr Watt, or at the begining of a sentence.

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Sorted.

 

You're fast.

I mean proper fast @SteamyTea

[Onoff]

6 hours ago, Roger440 said:

a small holding

 

That's what I have.

[BotusBuild]

 

8 hours ago, -rick- said:

The makings of an entertaining TV show!

Self Build SOS!

[ToughButterCup]

Self Build Buddies? 

[Gus Potter]

On 01/02/2026 at 11:18, ToughButterCup said:

The most pernicious aspect of self building is sleeplessness. Hands down, no contest, it's awful.

It is indeed, incapacitating at times. 

On 01/02/2026 at 11:18, ToughButterCup said:

Gus Potter fantasising about being able to do complex stress calculations in his head ?

How did you guess that correctly?

 

Self building / renovating is a big undertaking. From my own perspective I've experienced stress (like most folk), from many aspects over my life in building. From leaving college,  running a small local contracting business, to reinventing myself as an SE / Designer. 

 

I've learnt to accept that stress comes with pretty much any job. I suppose the big question is.. is it worth the hassle?

 

But it's much harder for self builders / renovators as often the pressure comes from areas that you are less experienced in dealing with, this amplifies the stress. This could be financial, technical, managing contractors, the physical effort (makes you tired being on your feet all day).. I could keep adding to this list.

 

Many on BH are sucessful in their own carear market.. must be to get the cash together in the first place! But the point here is that in the run up to a build and during you often face an onslaught of problems that you have never encountred before, even in your day job, that just overwhelms you. You recognise that there is a gap in your building knowledge and to get your head around that is often a steep learning curve and then time acts against you. Unless you know you way around the building trade then there is the "language" problem. You have to learn a bit about that and lots before you sign a contract. The pressure is massive and few folk navigate this perfectly. 

 

It's not often the technical diffculty.. many members would take this in their stride due to their life experience if they are considered in isolation.. it's just the volume and the fact that they (technical stuff) all pile up at once.. you can feel you are circling the plughole!

 

Often it  is due to everyone else (designers / builders / the banks and every other person that is involved) that seems to be nipping your head / not doing what they are supposed to! You expect that in good faith your professionals will actually do what you as a domesctic Client are reasonably able to expect, or have been lead to believe. 

 

Ok. To sum up.. don't feel at any time you are inadequate if things go wrong on a build. Often things can be fixed and life returns to normal. After about 5 years the mind has this built in defensive mechanism where you start to forget the worst times.. after 10 years you remember the good times and what you achieved. The mind heals it's self in many cases. 

 

My stuff as an SE:

 

I have a great job, it's very creative at times. Probably the best thing is when you have to design from first principles and marry that up with something that is archtecturally pleasing, can be built and within the budget. But the SE side comes with a lot of responsibility. If the architectural details leak water,  or you go over budget then it's not a good look..bad for business, but if something falls down then this is a serious matter.

 

There are two common ways buildings fall down.. a slow collapse and a sudden collapse. The latter is where you are most likely to kill folk as it happens without warning. During the build if temporary works collapse then you can kill the folk working on site. If something like this happens then it will be on your conscience for the rest of your life. I don't know what I would do if I was responsible for a death or many. Best thing to do is to make sure it does not happen!

 

Now every so often I'll design something, do the drawings and calculations. I tend to sit on them for a bit.. sleep on it and let my mind work away in the background. Sometimes I wake up with a busy brain in the middle of the night.. with a bad feeling. I just get up and go and check, there is no way I'm getting back to sleep. The next night I sleep better. Some of the time I realise that I've not included enough explanation in my drawings. Ocasionally I identify a mistake. It's ok.. this is part of the checking process. 

 

Sometimes I act as a checking engineer.. I check submissions from large contractors who put pressure on you. I can manage this but as a self builder / renovator it can be very stressfull, not least due to the "language" diiffculty. 

 

In the round it's ok to fell stressed, it's no stigma if you feel depressed or out of your depth at times. A problem shared is a problem halved as they say! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BotusBuild]

46 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Self Build Buddies? 

Or could it be an offshoot of Men's Shed?

 

Mobile Self Build Shed