PeterW Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Just now, Nickfromwales said: @JSHarris swears by the liquid PTFE stuff. Can't recall the name of it I love T2 Rectorseal..... lets just leave that there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, jamiehamy said: Jet Blue or Jet Lube? I have looked for this before and can't find it! Probably being daft tho! This is the stuff I have: https://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/product/center-center-jet-blue-plus-500-g/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 44 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: @JSHarris swears by the liquid PTFE stuff. Can't recall the name of it I tried the No Nonsense stuff. A biatch to get out of the bottle after the first few uses. Sets too hard for my liking as well as in a git to undo joints afterwards though I was quite liberal with it. The fact that Jet Blue Plus sorted my 25mm MDPE to brass stopcock weep at 9 / 10 bar convinced me on it. Makes doing up a compression fitting a pleasure. It lubes, quietens and allows it all to nip up tighter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 33 minutes ago, JSHarris said: This thread has prompted an idea. Some of us are competent to teach others to do some basic stuff, I'm sure. There's nothing like an hour or two chatting and working through some typical jobs, like making soldered or compression pipe joints, making plastic pipe connections, and other jobs, like fitting MVHR stuff, and all the myriad jobs in a build. How about setting up a "I'll volunteer to help you learn about that" group? I'd happily take the odd day out to drive up with some tools and stuff to spend a few hours helping someone else pick up some of the skills I've acquired, for example. Anyone else think this is worth exploring further as an idea? Funnily enough I was thinking something similar today !! My version has a bit of a sting in the tail though, as I was thinking of going out and doing the first fix for someone, charging accordingly, but tutoring them as I work so they can either join in with the first fix basics or at the least feel confident enough to carry out the second fix on their own....... type of thing. Recent events have got my brain spinning as I may be having a building work sabbatical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Funnily enough I was thinking something similar today !! My version has a bit of a sting in the tail though, as I was thinking of going out and doing the first fix for someone, charging accordingly, but tutoring them as I work so they can either join in with the first fix basics or at the least feel confident enough to carry out the second fix on their own....... type of thing. Recent events have got my brain spinning as I may be having a building work sabbatical Nick, You could look at doing a version of what I did with our electrician, but with the client doing the heavy stuff and you imparting your knowledge. I'm pretty sure that one of the biggest problems many self-builders have when it comes to doing work themselves is a lack of confidence, as they are tackling something unknown. Just having someone around who has masses of knowledge and experience and who can help them tackle work they otherwise might not feel able to may well be something a fair few would appreciate, and pay for. In your case you may not have a properly working left arm for a while, but the rest of you still works OK, and the most important stuff is in your head, anyway. There has to be a way of using that to tide you over while your arm gets sorted out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: My version has a bit of a sting in the tail though, as I was thinking of going out and doing the first fix for someone, charging accordingly, but tutoring them as I work so they can either join in with the first fix basics or at the least feel confident enough to carry out the second fix on their own....... type of thing. I think that most people would have different levels of input and reward needs as we all have different personal situations that have to be met, me i have no money but i can at least quirky holiday accommodation in return for a helping hand with a task i have very limited skill in. It will be intresting to see what others have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: @JSHarris swears by the liquid PTFE stuff. Can't recall the name of it TBH, I've stopped using it for anything except permanent threaded (iron) joints now, as Jet Blue is far easier to use on compression joints, as it can be undone more easily. The liquid PTFE stuff works very well (but is a PITA to get out of the bottle) and if you want to take the joint apart you need to warm it up a bit, which makes the sealant go soft. Now I use a mix of PTFE tape on any threaded plastic fitting (there are a few of those in the water treatment system, on filters mainly), liquid PTFE on any threaded metal fitting that I don't think I'll need to take apart again, and Jet Blue on all other metal fittings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I can't be having tape on fresh compression fittings. If the nut is tight enough to have properly compressed the olive, any tape will have been sheared out of the contact area but if it hasn't it leaves a nice slippery surface. There's one particular brand of Autoclave I do a lot with and they tape every joint in the factory. By the time the instrument arrives here many fittings are so loose I can snug them by hand. I do like Slic-tite paste tho- sticks like sh*t to a blanket on any surface, fills gaps well, and lubricates also. In normal use it's non-setting but I had opportunity to open a joint on a steam generator that I'd made a few months previously (sustained 145c) and it had dried out a bit like glazing putty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: I think it's @PeterStarck that has the uber nice looking plastic manifolds, one where I have to concede the point as it does look pretty damn good ? The manifolds are metal and virtually everything is Speedfit. It's a bit cramped but I've managed to squeeze everything in. We don't like the look of copper pipes so we've only used them for the D1 and D2 pipes. It'll all be hidden away in a cupboard eventually. Edited December 12, 2017 by PeterStarck 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, dpmiller said: can't be having tape on fresh compression fittings. If the nut is tight enough to have properly compressed the olive, any tape will have been sheared out of the contact area but if it hasn't it leaves a nice slippery surface. I have never had any such probs with compression fittings for normal house plumbing. The pastes work well, but I have found that they tend to set hard, so can be problematic if you every need to break the joint. And Peter, your installation counts as a piece of artwork! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 53 minutes ago, dpmiller said: I can't be having tape on fresh compression fittings. If the nut is tight enough to have properly compressed the olive, any tape will have been sheared out of the contact area but if it hasn't it leaves a nice slippery surface. There's one particular brand of Autoclave I do a lot with and they tape every joint in the factory. By the time the instrument arrives here many fittings are so loose I can snug them by hand. I do like Slic-tite paste tho- sticks like sh*t to a blanket on any surface, fills gaps well, and lubricates also. In normal use it's non-setting but I had opportunity to open a joint on a steam generator that I'd made a few months previously (sustained 145c) and it had dried out a bit like glazing putty. Plus one to all of that. I've NEVER put ptfe on a compression unless it's a rad valve going onto an existing copper stem and the olive has been crushed by the previous Neanderthal. Slic-tite is great stuff, and I'd recommend that for compression TBH. It's quite thin and you literally only need to smear the conical / chamfered parts of the fitting ( the parts that the olive presses against ) plus the first 2-3 valleys of the male threads ( for rotational lubrication thus avoiding the brass 'squeak' ) so you use less torque to achieve a tight / snug fit. The JetBlue is recommended by our resident bathroom sloth @Onoff but I routinely use Rocol Gas Seal for everything as it's dense, and non setting. I find the JetBlue and Boss White etc don't stay on the threads that well as they are a bit like putty. That can see them entering the bore of the pipe and then contaminating the system / clogging filters / cartridges etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: That is truly a thing of beauty. Puts me in mind of those amazing structured cable installations you sometimes see: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 22 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: The manifolds are metal and virtually everything is Speedfit. The blue, red and hard to see white collars are the horseshoe shaped circlips that keep the JG stuff from undoing themselves. Nice touch having them all colour coded for hot cold and softened etc. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 You have to be careful with some of the pipe seal products as some are not meant for use on potable supplies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Fernox LS-X - great stuff and am surprised it's not been used/mentioned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: The blue, red and hard to see white collars are the horseshoe shaped circlips that keep the JG stuff from undoing themselves. Nice touch having them all colour coded for hot cold and softened etc. ? Do those white boxes contain any auto-balancing gubbins, or is it just room-stat connections to the actuators? I am trying to get to grips with mine for the first time and all of my flow meters show zero. Does that mean that autobalancing is happening, or that the system is in some kind of lockdown, or that they are stuck, or that someone set them to zero before we bought the house ? We certainly get heat through it, but the flow and return temps are 20C different (50 vs 30 with the boiler at current setup) - which seems high. This is my install: Edited December 12, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Given that ian will end up with a manifold and UFH, and even though a slight digression, I think it'll be useful to the topic . So... The unit the plug goes into is the wiring centre ( Wctr ), the room stats connect to the Wctr, and the actuators get controlled by the Wctr. The acuators are dumb if they are 2-wire, or they're active if 4-wire ( as with 4-wire each actuator has a switched pair that close when the actuator is fully open and that would then directly control the manifold pump ). You've likely got 2-wire by the look of the Wctr and the pump relay will / is likely to be inside the WCtr. Is the pump pump speed on low / 1? That's a lot of heat going in TBH, so what's the floor construction? I'd dial the temp back to 35-38oC going in and change the pump speed to med / 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 44 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Given that ian will end up with a manifold and UFH, and even though a slight digression, I think it'll be useful to the topic . So... The unit the plug goes into is the wiring centre ( Wctr ), the room stats connect to the Wctr, and the actuators get controlled by the Wctr. The acuators are dumb if they are 2-wire, or they're active if 4-wire ( as with 4-wire each actuator has a switched pair that close when the actuator is fully open and that would then directly control the manifold pump ). You've likely got 2-wire by the look of the Wctr and the pump relay will / is likely to be inside the WCtr. Is the pump pump speed on low / 1? That's a lot of heat going in TBH, so what's the floor construction? I'd dial the temp back to 35-38oC going in and change the pump speed to med / 2. Flow temp dialed back to 40C via the boiler control, now reflected on the input side temp guage, and I have opened the controls on the circuits to rooms currently in use - lounge, 2 x in kitchen, bathroom, utility. We also have 2 bedroom circuits which I have left closed for now. Each is now showing flow of around 1 (litre per minute?). I have also set the indiivdual room stats (mechanical dial) high, and the programmer to "Manual" to stop them interfering. Is the pump the grey box in the first pic? Do I need to look for a switch to set it to fast? Cheers F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Sorry to Hijack. @Nickfromwales seeing as you've got plenty of time to spare tell me if this makes sense. Does anyone plumb radiators in off a manifold? Doesn't seem to common on 'bog standard' new installs but I was thinking could get rid of all hidden joints. Also with water supplies why can same not be done for these? This way plaggy pipe uninterrupted in ceiling voids and all joints accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Flow temp dialed back to 40C via the boiler control, now reflected on the input side temp guage, and I have opened the controls on the circuits to rooms currently in use - lounge, 2 x in kitchen, bathroom, utility. We also have 2 bedroom circuits which I have left closed for now. Each is now showing flow of around 1 (litre per minute?). I have also set the indiivdual room stats (mechanical dial) high, and the programmer to "Manual" to stop them interfering. Is the pump the grey box in the first pic? Do I need to look for a switch to set it to fast? Cheers F The grey box is a pipe / cylinder stat and it's there to stop the pump from spinning if the flow manifold temp exceeds the set point. Basically it's a failsafe should the primary means of thermostatic control fail If this is off a system boiler or combi then the manifold pump may well have been wrongly omitted . Is there no pump at the manifold? Can we have a zoomed out pic? My fault for not seeing the HL stat as that's prob why you weren't getting any flow. The boiler was lighting, sending way too hot water to the manifold and the HL stat was shutting the whole thing down. More detail of system components / pic of under boiler etc please. Something is missing here me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, Oz07 said: Sorry to Hijack. @Nickfromwales seeing as you've got plenty of time to spare tell me if this makes sense. Does anyone plumb radiators in off a manifold? Doesn't seem to common on 'bog standard' new installs but I was thinking could get rid of all hidden joints. Also with water supplies why can same not be done for these? This way plaggy pipe uninterrupted in ceiling voids and all joints accessible. You've only now joined the forum have you ? Weve been bragging the manifold vs uninterrupted pipe setup for over 2 years between here and EBuild. Naughty step for you ? Re the radiators on a manifold, yes, I've done it a few times and works a treat, just beware not to mix any different disciplines, eg one manifold dedicated for rads, so you can select a higher flow temp on the TMV. You could do away with the TMV for a rads-only manifold but then you have to live with the rads being at the boiler flow temp, which if you've got an uvc will be 60+oC so a bit too hot imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Yeh sorry not really been paying attention. Cost of manifolds doesn't look cheap but I suppose first fix is quicker and also peace of mind re hidden joints. Would you keep all heating pipework in 15 as the reducers in 10mm could clog up in future or does this not matter as the joints are on show? I've seen manifolds which have seperate Elec controls. Would be good where you have 2 stats in house. I.e. Upstairs downstairs. Presume 10mm fine for low usage potable water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 at least your honest . 10mm to all wash hand basins and WC's and 15mm everywhere else is the norm. How are you getting the pipe to the rads? Out of wall or up out of the floor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Wall looks neater but have to be 10mm with blob and dob on masonry wall? is 15 better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 No matter TBH, 10mm is fine unless they're huge rads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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