No planning

[vik2001]

What happens if you build a extension and have building regs but no planning permission?

 

Here's the story:

Doing a 10m side extension, got building inspector involved and all going good with foundation etc. Extension is about to go up and we been told it doesn't come under PD.

Do I carry on with extension(neighbours have no issue with it) or stop work and apply for planning permission  

 

The walls have been knocked out so I'm in a pickle. Current wait for applications is 3 months I'm told.

 

The side extension is being done along side a Garage Conversion to convert it into a habitable room.

[ProDave]

Do you really mean a 10M wide side extension?  That is wider than most houses?

[vik2001]

it's 10m in length and. It's 4m wide

[SteamyTea]

Planning permission and building regs are two totally separate things.

Think of it as owing a taxed, MOTed and insured car, but you have no license to drive it.

You can park it on a public road, but you cannot move it.

[Crofter]

If you build without PP,it's possible that you could be forced to demolish it. I don't think you've got any option other than to pause the project while you get PP. Probably not the news you want to hear.

[Moonshine]

Why doesn't it come under PD?

[joe90]

15 hours ago, vik2001 said:

and we been told it doesn't come under PD.

Why, who told you it would?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/permitted-development-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance/permitted-development-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance

Edited March 4 by joe90

[markc]

I’m thinking possibly because of the “alongside conversion of garage”. Sketch/s would help

[ProDave]

39 minutes ago, markc said:

I’m thinking possibly because of the “alongside conversion of garage”. Sketch/s would help

It would help of the OP provided a sketch.

 

My guess is he is converting an existing attached garage on the side of the house, and building an extension behind the garage the same width of the garage.  That ought to be PD within some limits so what makes him think it is not?

[ToughButterCup]

Oooops.

If the person who told you that your development could not be completed under PP had the authority to make that statement then -

 

• Stop and apply for PP.

 

Sorry to give you bad news but the more time and effort you invest in the project, the worse the outcome could be.

We are not experts, just interested, hard-bitten amateurs. 

 

There might well be a good outcome - in all likelihood you'll need to  apply for Retrospective Planning Permission. 3 months isn't that long. many of us have experienced far longer delays.

[DevilDamo]

On what basis does it require Planning? If you do require Planning, you have two options…

 

- Stop works, wait to receive Planning and then re-commence the works; or

- Submit an application and proceed with the works at risk. Worst case, you would be told to stop and the works undone.

[vik2001]

7 hours ago, ProDave said:

It would help of the OP provided a sketch.

 

My guess is he is converting an existing attached garage on the side of the house, and building an extension behind the garage the same width of the garage.  That ought to be PD within some limits so what makes him think it is not?

This is correct. I'm going 10 m in length behind the garage, which is longer than the 4m allowed for a detached house under pd.also the roof height is greater then 2.5m so doesn't come under pd.

I decided to halt work. Only the block n beam floor has been laid.

Similar houses in the street have had extensions done and the neighbour has no objections in me doing this.

Edited March 4 by vik2001

[vik2001]

The area in white above shows the proposed side extension. It's 10m in length.

 

 

Edited March 4 by vik2001

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, vik2001 said:

The area in white above shows the proposed side extension. It's 10m in length.

 

 

I don't think the 10M length is a problem.  The limits on a side extension under PD appear to be the width, which is up to half the original width of the house.

 

However the issue I see is the proximity to the boundary fence.  I think that could be a big issue for planning.  With no dimensions it is just a guess but it looks to me the gap between the extension and the boundary fence is tapered and very thin at the bottom end in that drawing.  I see an issue with how do you build it, and how do you get access to maintain it.

 

Planners might not be happy with that situation.

[TerryE]

I am curious.  You've had plans drawn up, commissioned a builder and started work.  Why did you conclude that it wouldn't need PP?  I am assuming that you have read the "Permitted development rights for householders, Technical Guidance" before starting the development (I see that @joe90 has already given you the link.) 

 

As far as I can see, the PD limit for an infill extension is 8m not 10m.  You've also got the side elevation within 300mm of the curtilage and added two fenestration openings directly overlooking the neighbour.  IMO, stop and start talking to the planners.

[vik2001]

48 minutes ago, TerryE said:

I am curious.  You've had plans drawn up, commissioned a builder and started work.  Why did you conclude that it wouldn't need PP?  I am assuming that you have read the "Permitted development rights for householders, Technical Guidance" before starting the development (I see that @joe90 has already given you the link.) 

 

As far as I can see, the PD limit for an infill extension is 8m not 10m.  You've also got the side elevation within 300mm of the curtilage and added two fenestration openings directly overlooking the neighbour.  IMO, stop and start talking to the planners.

 

I got the plans made up just last week when I realised it wasn't pd.

I am partly to blame, and I shud have thought more about it. The builder advised it was pd and I went along till I later realised through a architect it wasn't...

 

Would the 300mm curtilage cause issues you think? 

The neighbour doesn't have a issue with the openings looking at this fence. He has a 2m high fence, and if any issues happy to put in obscured glass to satisfy planners. One is just a small loover window in bathroom, and the other is slightly larger for a kitchen window

Edited March 4 by vik2001

[vik2001]

51 minutes ago, ProDave said:

 

I don't think the 10M length is a problem.  The limits on a side extension under PD appear to be the width, which is up to half the original width of the house.

 

However the issue I see is the proximity to the boundary fence.  I think that could be a big issue for planning.  With no dimensions it is just a guess but it looks to me the gap between the extension and the boundary fence is tapered and very thin at the bottom end in that drawing.  I see an issue with how do you build it, and how do you get access to maintain it.

 

Planners might not be happy with that situation.

 

Yes you are Right it does taper in, the neighbour on that side is actually the builder doing the works and he has no problem taking down the fence to allow access for him to do the job of need be. Also the wall is still within my boundary and 50 or 60mm away from the fence on that side, so I'm hoping it won't be a issue with planning dept.

Edited March 4 by vik2001

[NailBiter]

It won't get you the full 10m but it might be worth looking at the Larger Home Extension scheme.

 

 https://www.planninggeek.co.uk/gpdo/house/extensions/larger-home-extension/

As your neighbours are in agreement and you are in a detached house you maybe be able to get up to 8m without full planning permission. I'm no expert though so you would need to check this very carefully. 

[saveasteading]

10 minutes ago, NailBiter said:

Larger Home Extension scheme.

News to me Thanks.

You could send this in and risk £96 and hope. It shows willing at least.

There is no harm in sending a note to explain the circumstances, (got the wrong advice/ misunderstood the permitted development guidelines) especially that the neighbour is absolutely happy with it.

Give a phone number in case they want to help.

The planners aren't usually vindictive. They may even contact you to discuss the best way forward.

[ETC]

Also…….have BC said anything about the size of the windows?

[vik2001]

27 minutes ago, ETC said:

Also…….have BC said anything about the size of the windows?

No they havnt

[Adrian Walker]

1 hour ago, vik2001 said:

 

I got the plans made up just last week when I realised it wasn't pd.

I am partly to blame, and I shud have thought more about it. The builder advised it was pd and I went along till I later realised through a architect it wasn't...

 

Would the 300mm curtilage cause issues you think? 

The neighbour doesn't have a issue with the openings looking at this fence. He has a 2m high fence, and if any issues happy to put in obscured glass to satisfy planners. One is just a small loover window in bathroom, and the other is slightly larger for a kitchen window

"The builder advised it was pd and I went along till I later realised through a architect it wasn't..."  I guess this was verbal and not in writing from the builder?

[ProDave]

OK I keep coming back to this, as I am interpreting this very different to most people.

 

All comments re wanting a 10M extension but only just being able to squeeze to 8M under certain circumstances, says you are treating this as a REAR extension built onto the back of the original garage.  If that is how you interpret it then indeed you would be right.

 

However to be it looks obviously like a SIDE extension built onto the SIDE of the existing house.  Yes that als means the right had side of the extension also touches the back of the garage.

 

In the case of a SIDE extension, it's depth (how far you can build out from the existing side wall) is limited to half the width of the original house.  Your drawing suggests you are within that, but it might be marginal.  So first go and accurately measure the width of the existing house where you are joining on to it, halve that figure, and ensure your side extension is no more than half the original width.  You might have to make a small compromise the depth to ensure it is no more than half.  Any such compromise would ease the pinch point at the boundary.

 

Treating it as a SIDE extension, i see no limitation on the width of the extension (the 10M figure) as long as the extension does not project beyond the end wall of the house.

 

The only PD limit I can see that will bother you is you will be building withing 2M of the boundary so will be subject to an eaves height of 3M.  That might be challenging, but certainly worth looking to see if you can find a solution.

 

As I see it, persisting in making it comply with PD removes the planning scrutiny from the narrow boundary gap issue.

 

The crux of the matter hinges on this being an extension that fits into a corner, so is is a side extension, or is it a rear extension?  Which set of rules takes precedence and why?

[vik2001]

@ProDave yes you are Right because its 2m from the boundary under PD I can only go 3m high to eaves. Even then I'm only allowed to extend out in length by 4m in a detached house. Hence why i have gone for full planning pernission.

 

the architect has done the calcs And plans so I can only assume it is within half width of the house, in my case bungalow.

 

If I have to go back slightly in length from 10m to 9m, or even 8m because planners don't approve, will they make me submit a new application or will they amend this original application???

 

Here's a pic of the floor up to corner of fence. We have laid the block and beam floor and stopped all work at this level.

 

[vik2001]

30 minutes ago, Adrian Walker said:

"The builder advised it was pd and I went along till I later realised through a architect it wasn't..."  I guess this was verbal and not in writing from the builder?

Yes verbal