connick159 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) Hi, doing an extension and the entire house has been gutted and rewired. About to move in but 2 different socket circuits tripping and sparky is scratching his head. He has a small plug-in socket tester which showed 'green' but as soon as I did my mobile phone charging test the sockets instantly trip the RCB which is the same as this one: https://willrose-electrical.co.uk/product/hager-rcd-100-amp-30ma-double-pole-100a-rccb-161503-cd285u-rcd/ There are also 2 lighting circuits tripping as well. They seem to work until 3 different room lights are turned on at the same time and then the light circuits trip the RCB. He is scratching his head over that too. I also notice that if I press the "test" button on the RCB in the link nothing happens. It's delaying our move-in now as this is the final snagging item and I have no confidence it will be resolved soon. I have questions about the earthing (could find a source) of the entire property so he is going to put in a ground Rod and redo that. Could that resolve the issue? I'm at the point now where i will be forced to look for other sparkies but... who will want to come in and look at someone else's work. I don't think I would. Has anyone got any advice about this? either in terms of troubleshooting or how to approach a new electrician. Thanks in advance. Edited May 10, 2023 by connick159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Your electricians has neutrals mixed up between circuits or a N-E fault. He should know how to test that, and should have done appropriate dead testing before energising. If he is scratching his head i would be starting to doubt his ability. The more I read of your post the less I trust him. Sorry. If in England or Wales I hope he is a member of a competent persons scheme as he will need to notify it under part P. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connick159 Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 Thanks Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connick159 Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 21 minutes ago, ProDave said: Your electricians has neutrals mixed up between circuits just thinking... to test this... could I turn off all other circuits other than the lighting and turn 3 lights on to see if it still trips? or does it not matter if circuits are off as the fact they are mixed up will always cause them to trip? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Can you post a picture of the new consumer unit, preferably one with the cover on and one with the cover off? By all means try one circuit at a time and see if you get different results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) Hi @connick159, Those breakers work by comparing the live and neutral current to see if any has leaked away to Earth as that would indicate a fault. If the live is connected to one breaker and the neutral to another as @ProDave says then plugging in even a small device like a charger can causes live and neutral currents to be different enough to trip out the breaker as it thinks there is fault. Sometimes the fault is in the CU but its common when two circuits accidentally get connected together, perhaps between floors or where two way lighting is installed on stairs? Not all lighting circuits have a Neutral everywhere. The Neutral wire sometimes gets used as a switched live and sleeved red or brown. Later when a neutral is needed the electrician connects to the nearest Neutral available which turns out to be on another circuit and you get this issue. I'm not an Electrician (just an Electronics engineer) but I imagine Electricians have a methodical method of locating the two circuits involved. Perhaps by physically disconnecting all the wiring at the CU so that you can electrically check for connections between different circuits. Once you know which two are connected that should be a clue where the problem connection is. Edited May 10, 2023 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob99 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 4 hours ago, ProDave said: should have done appropriate dead testing before energising If he didn't do this I'd be very worried. If he did and there's still a fault I'd still be worried! I'm also wondering why, on a full rewire, he's still using an RCD? Most electricians now are moving to using RCBO's instead and soon it will be mandatory. To try and isolate the fault you should investigate one circuit at a time. Turn everything else off then check every socket in turn. Same for lighting circuits. Another thought? Do you have a faulty RCD unit? Does happen occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connick159 Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 Pics. Looks like a bowl of spaghetti ☹️ He says "yes it's still messy at moment but will tidy up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 What a bag of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, TonyT said: What a bag of crap. The more I look at that, the more I think OMG. There is so much potential for getting things wrong there, let alone it is untidy. What an earth are choc blocks doing in a CU in a rewire? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA3222 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 I'm not a spark but the first thing that smacked me in the face looking at that is the choc blocks.... I feel for you bud as you probably aren't getting the feedback you hoped for here and you're in a bind now. Do you stick or twist....the difficulty with twisting is trying to find someone that will test and certify another's work and given the reaction from one of our resident sparks, they may look at this and say no thanks. Hopefully you will get enough from the folks who know on here to allow you to sort the fault and get across the finish line with that setup working and signed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 This is a rewire🧐🙈. My OCD can't cope with the wires entering the CU, never mind inside. @connick159 are you sure he's an electrician😞. Did you see him using a larger tester before powering up circuits.? To help us help you can you ask him for his test results ? We might be able to see the problem, (answer will be he hasn't done it yet or doesn't do it..) The dead tests @ProDave mentioned earlier would identify crossed circuits, and or N-E faults. If your electricians fault finding is maxed out at plugging in a socket tester then he's going to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 There is such a tangle in there it will be impossible to fault find it remotely. I am still trying to work out where the bottom CU gets it's feed. It must be somewhere from the top CU otherwise why no rcd or rcbo. Time for a frank discussion with your "electrician" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 @Jenki hate to say, i'm with you. A socket tester plugged in is what he considers testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Bag of shit. I hope you have not paid him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connick159 Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 Re the connector blocks. He said he's using them to transfer things to the bottom CU to see if taking the rcd out of play stops the tripping. The power for the bottom CU is coming from the top cu I think. The main board is at other ond of house and an armoured is running to this point which is close to the middle of the house. It's a single story place. The added difficulty is that he is also a family friend which makes things even more awkward. Thanks for the advice so far. Tough to hear but aligns with what I've been thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 @connick159, the replies here are not what you want to read, but you are where you are. We can try to help, ultimately it will take some testing of circuits and that can't be done remotely. So the only help I can offer, is advise that the person responsible for the rewire is out of their depth, and a plug in tester cannot produce the test results you need to find the fault / s. To assist with the awkward discussion about competency My initial thoughts are( and not exhaustive) 1, Why are the cables not glanded when entering the CU's 2, the layout of CU 1 is confusing, i.e LH side isolator, then the RCD's are running RH to LH. 3, all 32A mcbs are on the LH side, regs mandate splitting circuits to minimise nuisance tripping i.e. up sockets and downstairs lights on one RCD and the opposite on other RCD etc 4, CU 2 has no RCD protection to circuits, ( but looks a bit neater) 5 Why choose plastic dual RCD CU and not metal RCBO protected as per 18th edition of BS7671. Good luck and I feel for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 No. Just no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, ProDave said: I am still trying to work out where the bottom CU gets it's feed. Got me thinking. Looks like there is no neutral in the isolator, but in MCB? This will cause the tripping. Is the idea that the 32mm MCB is feeding the second CU? The Supply N needs to be in the isolator, then out of the isolator into the RCD's input. Edited May 10, 2023 by Jenki 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Maybe time to get a check of some switches, sockets to make sure they are fitted correctly Have you any certification for this work? poor design and installation work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connick159 Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 Thanks again all, I don't think remote trouble shooting is feasible as I also have extremely limited knowledge of electrical stuff which is why i got someone else in. I don't know and RCB from RCD from rcbo etc. I think bottom line is that it's got a bit big on him and I'll have to try and find someone else to tear down CUs and start again. This will take weeks though as which good sparky out there is going to want this hassle as they all seem to have work coming out there backsides. Yet another challenge to overcome on this never ending shit sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connick159 Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, TonyT said: Maybe time to get a check of some switches, sockets to make sure they are fitted correctly Have you any certification for this work? poor design and installation work Not yet as still not finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, Jenki said: Got me thinking. Looks like there is. No neutral in the isolator, but in MCB? No. That's the perspective of the photo. The two browns are in the MCB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connick159 Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 48 minutes ago, Jenki said: This is a rewire🧐🙈. My OCD can't cope with the wires entering the CU, never mind inside. @connick159 are you sure he's an electrician😞. Did you see him using a larger tester before powering up circuits.? To help us help you can you ask him for his test results ? We might be able to see the problem, (answer will be he hasn't done it yet or doesn't do it..) The dead tests @ProDave mentioned earlier would identify crossed circuits, and or N-E faults. If your electricians fault finding is maxed out at plugging in a socket tester then he's going to struggle. He did have a large tester around his neck with some prongs and I've seen him using those. No idea what they are. Look more like an expensive multimeter thing rather than one of those Megha testers I've seen on some YouTube videos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, connick159 said: Not yet as still not finished. Prob just best to get your mate / friend in, put the kettle on, and tell him it's time to admit defeat. If I showed this to my sparky, he would go and yank the main fuse and lend you some AA's for your torch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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