What words/phrases can I use negotiating with suppliers or tradies?

[CalvinHobbes]

I have started getting prices and there is quite a lot of variation.

Please can you tell me some good phrases to use? At the moment I have been saying 'yikes, that's too much - can you reduce it?' I need more gravitas or something.

Edited March 24, 2023 by CalvinHobbes

[Blooda]

If a tradesman says "I can get it cheaper" they probably can't. 

 

So if you are in a position, ask for labour only price, order the stuff yourself and ensure its on site when they get there.  A lot of the one person companies prefer it as it keeps them under the VAT registration limit.  And if new build you can claim the VAT back, but if an unregistered company buys the stuff, they will charge you the VAT, and you can't claim it back.    

[ToughButterCup]

30 minutes ago, CalvinHobbes said:

..... I need more gravitas or something.

 

"Thanks for that price. I have three other quotations due in the next [...] .  Can I ring you to discuss your price when the other quotes are in?"

 

"Well, the main issue is that I want to be sure to compare like with like. I'm trying to be fair to each supplier, and not simply rejecting the quote on the basis of the final figure "

 

"The other comparable quotes are substantially lower than yours. Do you have time to discuss them with me?"

 

"Help me understand why your quote is so much higher than everyone elses"

 

"Why is your quote so cheap?"

 

"Your quote is so high that it makes me wonder wether you want the business".

 

"Your quote seems to be substantially out of line with other quotes I have. The others are all about 15% cheaper. Can we explore why that might be"

 

"Why did you waste your time sending me a quote that high?"

 

"Self builders are not stupid"

 

"Do you have a line manager I can talk to, just to check a few items in this quote ...."

 

"Really? Honestly? Have the decency to wear a mask the next time you commit daylight robbery."

[CalvinHobbes]

Thanks for that ToughButterCup, it's staying in front of me.🤣

[Pocster]

4 hours ago, CalvinHobbes said:

I have started getting prices and there is quite a lot of variation.

Please can you tell me some good phrases to use? At the moment I have been saying 'yikes, that's too much - can you reduce it?' I need more gravitas or something.

That’s easy !

 

I’m your favourite customer 

 

f s mate ; don’t want to remortgage 

 

if I pay now do I get a 10% discount 

 

you know I’ll be a repeat customer 

 

other BM is cheaper , but you guys are nicer 

 

Currently for my BM when I call I say “ Can I buy some of your crap , expensive products ? “ . Probably up the price for me - but who knows .

 

So banter / cheek / don’t ask don’t get attitude 

[SteamyTea]

"Is it April the first"

[Bitpipe]

Just watch Liam Neeson's phone call in Taken and paraphrase as required. Helps if you have the accent.

 

I found that for in person discussions, living in a caravan & dressing like a builder / tramp did not hurt, also having a slightly battered estate car to visit merchants etc.

[ToughButterCup]

21 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

...

I found that for in person discussions, living in a caravan & dressing like a builder / tramp did not hurt, also having a slightly battered estate car to visit merchants etc.

 

Too bloody right.

Here's a re-print of what actually happened to me a few years ago .....

=========================

Waiting in line at the local BM. An organisation that hasn't changed from the 1990s when  I first set foot in Lancashire. But  I suspect it probably hasn't changed much since time began.

 

A powerfully built but small white haired man get to the head of the queue. No neck, just muscle, shoulders the size of an  American oarsman's coach. His  frame must have been put together before steroids were invented. 

 

Several staff are chatting behind the counter - there's a queue, no, audience of at least 10. All builders (except me)

 

Roofer: Riaaat mate ah want sum roofing felt: cuppla roles laaak

 

BM  You mean Vapour Control felt: how many rolls d'ya wunt?

 

Noooo mert, ah want sum roofin felt, just'a culpa rolls laaak.

 

The BM  shop assistant, spotty, super-clean hair do, biro tattoos : 'Mum' and 'Hat', one on each forearm looks flummoxed. 

 

Well we've got [................... A series of trade names.............]

 

Silence.  Complete silence. 10 builders (and me) , Hearts almost stopped.

 

The roofer eyes the sprog behind the counter, and cold as ice and says

 

Maaate if yer wanna know why wimmin dunt ever cum in 'ere, it cos o' twats laaak thee mekkin me feel laak a reet prat. Ah been cummin' in ere since long afore yer dad wuz born orderin' fookin roofing felt. '..... Kin rooofin felt 'assss all.  An if  yer can mek me feel laak a reet prat, yer can do 't same fer wimmin. Nay wonder ya never see a wun in ere.

 

The shop door opens, all eyes swivel (just like a pub entrance door) and in walks a large female, in  dirty dungarees, severe hair cut with purple and red highlights, forearms the size of  my thighs ,  most things pierced - the list would be too long - sporting a chunky paint-spattered watch. And clogs - proper Lancashire clogs.

 

Two days later my tongue is still sore where I bit it .

[CalvinHobbes]

34 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

Just watch Liam Neeson's phone call in Taken and paraphrase as required. Helps if you have the accent.

 

I found that for in person discussions, living in a caravan & dressing like a builder / tramp did not hurt, also having a slightly battered estate car to visit merchants etc.

I have the accent, mind you so do most round here.

Edited March 24, 2023 by CalvinHobbes

[Pocster]

47 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

"Is it April the first"

There's 1 day of the year this line won't work.

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, pocster said:

There's 1 day of the year this line won't work.

Every few years it is a Sunday.

It is a Saturday this year.

[Ralph]

I recently had someone quote me, in person, £1,800 for a job that I eventually had done for £40. I said nothing, turned around, walked back into the house and closed the door. No point in doing anything else.

[Pocster]

Not quite the same subject but I went to get a quote from 3 solicitors to own a tiny plot of land ( long story ) .

 

First said it was impossible to own .

 

Second said it would cost 5k and a 50/50 chance 

 

Third said . 100% sure I can own it . Need a barrister and 15k !!!

 

Took a year , did it myself for about 100 quid 

[Canski]

On the same different subject I was told by one solicitor it would cost between £4 and £6k to split my plot and sell to a friend. Another solicitor has quoted £1k for the same job. 

[Pocster]

7 minutes ago, Canski said:

On the same different subject I was told by one solicitor it would cost between £4 and £6k to split my plot and sell to a friend. Another solicitor has quoted £1k for the same job. 

I think solicitors are the worst . They each only have an ‘ opinion ‘ and as you and I have pointed out - if motivated enough you can kick the shits to the kerb .

[Canski]

14 minutes ago, pocster said:

 if motivated enough you can kick the shits to the kerb.

Together with dodgy ecologists

[Temp]

When given a price at trade counters my dad always said "where's my one hundred percent discount?" and quite often was give a more reasonable price.

[Dave Jones]

heres a tip for materials.

 

You need to find a local building firm, the type that has 3 or 4 blokes on the books. Have a drive round the area, they build single houses, decent size extensions that sort of thing. Approach them and explain you are self building and are being bent over for materials. Ask if you can use their rates at jewsons/trav etc and you will pay them cash of half the saving. Get a price from the merchant for the usual 20 items timber, boards, cement, insulation etc and see what they paying. work out what you need and give them an up front couple hundred quid and couple cases beer.

 

You will be buying some good faith, they may even answer the phone and recommend trades to you.

[Iceverge]

Buying a sheet of this here or a plank of that there is a recipe for getting rinsed. 

 

Try to buy say at least £2k worth of materials at a time. Ring 5 different BMs and give them a list as long as your arm and get an itemised quote from each. 

 

Then you can pick and choose the ones that are doing the best deal or get the handiest one to price match. For some reason delivery never seems to be much or anything extra either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thorfun]

38 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Buying a sheet of this here or a plank of that there is a recipe for getting rinsed. 

 

Try to buy say at least £2k worth of materials at a time. Ring 5 different BMs and give them a list as long as your arm and get an itemised quote from each. 

 

Then you can pick and choose the ones that are doing the best deal or get the handiest one to price match. For some reason delivery never seems to be much or anything extra either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used to do this but in the end Jewson always came out with the best price and if they didn't my account 'manager', i.e. the sales guy I deal with, would price match. now I just find what I want online and phone him up and see if he can match it and don't bother with other BMs I have accounts with. sometimes he even beats the online price. but I have spent a lot with them over the past 2 years and have built up a good rapport with him so I think that's important. As @pocster says, a bit of banter and cheekiness also helps.

[saveasteading]

I always found that it needed the right current ethos from the merchant , but also the right manager.

Example. We had an account with Travis, so approached the branch local to the projuct for blocks. A lot of blocks. We knew the right price but they refused to reduce it. It was cheaper at b &q, delivered. Our base TP also gave a better price by far.

We ordered from b and q, and the blocks were delivered by .....local TP, who must have paid b&q a commission.  What they were playing at we never found out.

 

Jewsons. Bag of 100 big washers £8. Presumably cost them about £5.

Needed more in a hurry and went to another depot. £35 less 10%.   

 I complained and got a full rebate but that was the time to change, to TP as it happened.

Then after 6 years to MKM.

It really is down to relationships. 

 

You don't have to be expert to be treated fairly. My family doing our conversion are not from construction, yet have a great relationship with the local merchant. 

They will occasionally not quite be cheapest but the service! I was there when they had an error in the timber delivery. They came back in 2 hours with the right stuff.

 

Visit every merchant. Talk to the sales manager, with drawings to prove the project size. Discuss the first order and get quotes.

Compare but also look online and ask here.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

...

It really is down to relationships. 

...

 

Micropolitics matters.

[SteamyTea]

18 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Micropolitics matters.

Ah, the unknown that makes Britain the most productive country in the world.

 

[Jenki]

On 24/03/2023 at 11:23, ToughButterCup said:

"Really? Honestly? Have the decency to wear a mask the next time you commit daylight robbery

😂

[Drellingore]

I don't know if this translates into the building trade, but in my previous line of work I would've asked something along the lines of "is there anything else I can do to make the job more attractive?"

There are other motivations than money. Are you going to be a PITA client? Is the site going to be cold, wet and miserable? Can you do other payment terms? Is time-and-materials vs fixed cost an option that's attractive to you both?

 

On the supply side I was given sagely advice to never drop my prices unless I got something in return. We were doing IT consultancy, so if we offered a discount it was often in return for better working conditions for the staff, better payment terms, offering a testimonial, that kind of thing. If you're asking a supplier to drop their price, it might be worth thinking about what you can do in return.

 

Beyond that, @ToughButterCup's lines all look ace!