Passive window recommendations please

[craig]

It's a shame that happens @lizzie puts those of us trying to do a good job down. We're not all perfect by a long shot.

 

Sorry to hear of the bad experience you have suffered. Sounds like the owner is trying to put right the wrongs.

Edited August 2, 2017 by craig

[jack]

11 hours ago, lizzie said:

So stressful, until they are all in I wont relax.

 

The night ours were delivered, I couldn't sleep due to completely irrational visions of someone backing a truck up and stealing them all from the driveway.

 

I therefore drove over and slept in the freezing cold car. Seemed like a reasonable solution at the time!

[Declan52]

Don't get to hung up on the fact your Windows have to be up to passiv standard unless you are going for the full on certified route. You can quite easily blow a massive hole in your budget with Windows and leave you skimping else where. Set yourself a budget and stick to it. Even 2g Windows now are of a pretty high standard.

Not much point in having passiv standard Windows and the rest of the house just meeting building regs.

 

[PeterW]

48 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Don't get to hung up on the fact your Windows have to be up to passiv standard unless you are going for the full on certified route. You can quite easily blow a massive hole in your budget with Windows and leave you skimping else where. Set yourself a budget and stick to it. Even 2g Windows now are of a pretty high standard.

Not much point in having passiv standard Windows and the rest of the house just meeting building regs.

 

 

I think @Declan52 makes a valid point and it's also in line with my thinking - get the spec right and it's going to be the air infiltration rate that causes the issues not the spec on the glazing. Tapes and sealant fitted properly will pay dividends. 

[Bitpipe]

1 hour ago, Declan52 said:

Don't get to hung up on the fact your Windows have to be up to passiv standard unless you are going for the full on certified route. You can quite easily blow a massive hole in your budget with Windows and leave you skimping else where. Set yourself a budget and stick to it. Even 2g Windows now are of a pretty high standard.

Not much point in having passiv standard Windows and the rest of the house just meeting building regs.

 

 

Just need to ensure that they don't have trickle vents if you're looking to minimise airtightness.

 

We used Gaulhofer passive windows from Austria (via a UK reseller). As the ex rate was 1.45 back then so they worked out cheaper than Internorm (who's idea for cost reduction was to choose uPVC instead of timber). 

 

Very pleased with the quality and aesthetic of our windows - we opted for substantial external blinds which came pre-fitted to the windows and have been a godsend in the summer, only wish I'd specced them on a few more windows. Internorm only did the blinds in window system which i didn't like.

 

We used a local installer, who gets referrals from the reseller, and he was great - super knowledgable and very professional. Still amazed how they slid in the 500kg sliders between scaffolding poles.

 

[lizzie]

12 hours ago, jack said:

The night ours were delivered, I couldn't sleep due to completely irrational visions of someone backing a truck up and stealing them all from the driveway.

 

I therefore drove over and slept in the freezing cold car. Seemed like a reasonable solution at the time!

 

That's brilliant! 

[Triassic]

I've only just started thinking about Windows and I'm now worried!

[lizzie]

26 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I've only just started thinking about Windows and I'm now worried!

Most stressful part of the whole thing! Good luck.

[Alexphd1]

Why does it have to be the most stressful part?? At the end of the day if the spec/contract is done correctly, the supplier does exactly whats agreed in black & white, the installer does his part what could possibly go wrong.....

 

I cant even decide on who to go with, i really need to sit down and make the final decision. Then its plane sailing, I wish !

[lizzie]

32 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said:

Why does it have to be the most stressful part?? At the end of the day if the spec/contract is done correctly, the supplier does exactly whats agreed in black & white, the installer does his part what could possibly go wrong.....

 

I cant even decide on who to go with, i really need to sit down and make the final decision. Then its plane sailing, I wish !

Been there did all that LOL Look forward to hearing from you on progress.

[Barney12]

8 hours ago, Alexphd1 said:

Why does it have to be the most stressful part?? At the end of the day if the spec/contract is done correctly, the supplier does exactly whats agreed in black & white, the installer does his part what could possibly go wrong.....

 

I cant even decide on who to go with, i really need to sit down and make the final decision. Then its plane sailing, I wish !

 

I would recommend "dice" to help with the decision process  

[PeterW]

It's not just the quality end of the market that is poor when it comes to windows ...

 

For a number of reasons I have to go with uPVC now for ours as my conversation with planning was pretty much that I'd used up all my luck on the NMAs so I would potentially have to reapply if we wanted anything else. 

 

I've got 3 quotes in front of me for two small, three medium and three large windows; a front door and a back door. Comparing them is a nightmare as some do triple glazed, some do acoustic glass, one is 28mm triple, one is 44mm triple and another has T&T in the upstairs as they can't put triple in anything over a 650 opener ...

 

Then start looking at the companies and find that one of them that can do what I want has "changed hands" twice after going insolvent ..!! 

 

All I know is whoever I go with, a credit card will be used ..!!!

[Barney12]

39 minutes ago, PeterW said:

It's not just the quality end of the market that is poor when it comes to windows ...

 

For a number of reasons I have to go with uPVC now for ours as my conversation with planning was pretty much that I'd used up all my luck on the NMAs so I would potentially have to reapply if we wanted anything else. 

 

I've got 3 quotes in front of me for two small, three medium and three large windows; a front door and a back door. Comparing them is a nightmare as some do triple glazed, some do acoustic glass, one is 28mm triple, one is 44mm triple and another has T&T in the upstairs as they can't put triple in anything over a 650 opener ...

 

Then start looking at the companies and find that one of them that can do what I want has "changed hands" twice after going insolvent ..!! 

 

All I know is whoever I go with, a credit card will be used ..!!!

 

Your last line is a MUST.

 

The credit ratings of some of the largest distro's are "Maximum Risk" with bust companies behind them.

 

[ProDave]

I has no stress with mine. Perhaps I approached it differently?

 

I directly approached half a dozen quality window suppliers. After the first round of quotes I had pretty much settled on Rationel for the reasons I have already mentioned. There followed a bit of fine tuning of the spec and a bit of shaving off the price.

 

Then, instead of just ordering the windows, I got the builders that had just built and erected my frame to supply the windows on a supply and fit basis.  This had the benefit they could supply and fit free of VAT so there was no VAT sum tied up until I could claim it at the end of the build, and I would after all need someone to fit them, it's not a 1 man job.

 

At this point they took most of the responsibility. They came and checked all the measurements were right. I had to pay 50% of the window cost up front (as I would have if ordering direct) and then paid the ballance of the cost and the labour for fitting them once they were all in.

 

 

[jack]

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I has no stress with mine. Perhaps I approached it differently?

 

I can see the advantages in your approach, but many of the issues complained about (e.g., late delivery, damage during transport, poor quality finish, wrong sizes, poor installation) could just as well have happened to you.

[craig]

I go back to what I said on another topic about windows "if" attention to detail is done in theory nothing should go wrong.

 

To be honest, I blame architects. Why? Windows seem to be an after thought, no schedule, no dimensions, no section details supplied. That's why window companies in my opinion seem to have a bad name.

 

lack of details is an issue.

[Declan52]

Not really the architects fault if the guy measuring up makes a mistake writing the numbers down or the windows move about in transit or they have been offered up to the opening and beat into place to get them to fit.

[Barney12]

21 minutes ago, craig said:

I go back to what I said on another topic about windows "if" attention to detail is done in theory nothing should go wrong.

 

To be honest, I blame architects. Why? Windows seem to be an after thought, no schedule, no dimensions, no section details supplied. That's why window companies in my opinion seem to have a bad name.

 

lack of details is an issue.

 

Sorry but that's a sweeping statement:

 

Schedule (TO SCALE): Supplied

Dimensions: Supplied

Sectionals: Supplied

 

Issues with supplier: MANY

 

[jamiehamy]

41 minutes ago, craig said:

I go back to what I said on another topic about windows "if" attention to detail is done in theory nothing should go wrong.

 

To be honest, I blame architects. Why? Windows seem to be an after thought, no schedule, no dimensions, no section details supplied. That's why window companies in my opinion seem to have a bad name.

 

lack of details is an issue.

I've said this before and will repeat - that type of statement is nonsense. Utter nonsense. 

[Crofter]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

I would after all need someone to fit them, it's not a 1 man job.

 

Having done all mine one my own, I would agree!! Biggest was a 250kg sliding patio door, which I could only move with the aid of a bottlejack. I had some help getting them into the house but did the actual fitting myself. At this stage in the build I received regular visits from passing neighbours, many of whom are in the trade - every last one of them thought I was daft to install from inside the building. I thought it would be daft to try installing triple glazed windows from the outside, working much higher off the ground with no working platform... 

 

On 8/2/2017 at 09:25, jack said:

The night ours were delivered, I couldn't sleep due to completely irrational visions of someone backing a truck up and stealing them all from the driveway.

 

I therefore drove over and slept in the freezing cold car. Seemed like a reasonable solution at the time!

 

Mine spent a winter, uninsured, in a cow shed. I was pretty glad to finally get them on site.

[Alexphd1]

Sorry disagree with the statement regarding the architect as well. During the build we have moved and changed the size of every window from the original plan, it would be a bit harsh to blame the architect for that!

[jack]

1 hour ago, craig said:

lack of details is an issue.

 

I'm sure it often is.

 

However, our architect provided a full window schedule, dimensions and installation sections for every window, and yet in the end the experienced, specialist installers ballsed things up in several ways.

[jack]

46 minutes ago, Crofter said:

Having done all mine one my own, I would agree!! Biggest was a 250kg sliding patio door, which I could only move with the aid of a bottlejack. I had some help getting them into the house but did the actual fitting myself. At this stage in the build I received regular visits from passing neighbours, many of whom are in the trade - every last one of them thought I was daft to install from inside the building. I thought it would be daft to try installing triple glazed windows from the outside, working much higher off the ground with no working platform... 

 

All of ours were installed from inside (including a 5.5m, 900+kg lift-and-slider - my wasn't that a stressful afternoon!)

 

Surely it must be easier working off a level, stable, and higher surface?

[craig]

1 hour ago, Barney12 said:

Sorry but that's a sweeping statement:

 

It's a generalisation I appreciate that, not all architects are and will be the same. However, the amount of drawings we receive and request from architects, are scaled drawings without a window schedule and without measurements for the windows being suplied. 

 

1 hour ago, jamiehamy said:

I've said this before and will repeat - that type of statement is nonsense. Utter nonsense. 

 

How and why? if you don't pay attention and something goes wrong, who's at fault? If you do pay attention and something does go wrong, that can happen but what I mean by paying attention is that it reduces "or should" reduce the chances of something going wrong.

 

31 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said:

During the build we have moved and changed the size of every window from the original plan, it would be a bit harsh to blame the architect for that!

 

Of course it would be, I wouldn't blame the architect for that either but I bet that's a deviation from the approved plans with or without consent from BC.

 

20 minutes ago, jack said:

 

I'm sure it often is.

 

However, our architect provided a full window schedule, dimensions and installation sections for every window, and yet in the end the experienced, specialist installers ballsed things up in several ways.

 

I appreciate that and sorry to hear that happened. We are not all perfect, by a long shot and mistakes do happen. Mistakes can be avoidable though. I bet the supplier, installers didn't look at the details supplied which resulted in the problems encountered?

[Crofter]

23 minutes ago, jack said:

 

All of ours were installed from inside (including a 5.5m, 900+kg lift-and-slider - my wasn't that a stressful afternoon!)

 

Surely it must be easier working off a level, stable, and higher surface?

 

I was told there was only one way to install a window, and that was to fix 50x50 all the way round the outside and then slide it into the frame so that these battens formed a cavity firestop. But that puts the windows in front of the insulation, and would lead to a thermally poor perimeter all around the edge. Just a case of "we've always done it this way" and not adapting to modern house designs where people actually care about thermal performance.

As a minor aside, aesthetically I think windows look much better when set back a bit into the facade. Maybe it's just because that's the norm up here, but when they are flush with the outside surface of the wall it looks a bit cheap, to me.

 

Anyway to get back onto the actual topic... I got my windows via @iSelfBuild directly from Poland, fortunately before the drop in value of Sterling. Very pleased with the quality although arranging delivery etc was not the easiest- but that might have been the case with any manufacturer, given my location. As others have said upthread, I was advised to go for inward opening windows as these were higher spec, but I had to trim back the budget a bit and ended up with outward opening, which I think I prefer for various practical reasons (no dripping windows inside the house, no worries with clearance when plastering or fitting blinds, and you can actually use the windowsills to put stuff on- important in a very small house like mine).