Temp Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 This post is somewhat of a "thinking aloud" post. Feel free to wade in and correct me if I'm wrong ! Most of you know that Analogue phone lines are being switched off by the end of 2025. What I didn't realise is that not all ISP plan to offer a replacement VOIP telephone service. https://modern-networks.co.uk/bt-switch-off-2025 Quote The following wholesale line rental (WLR) telephone and broadband services will be withdrawn in 2025: Analogue voice services IP replacement services Single lines, multiple lines, ISDN2, ISDN30, LLU, SLU MPF, narrowband line share and Classic product. SIP trunk and hosted/Cloud telephony Analogue broadband Fibre replacement services ADSL, FTTC, GFAST broadband SOTAP, SOGEA and SOGFAST or Fibre broadband SOTAP (ADSL Replacement if fibre is not available) SOGEA (FTTC Replacement if fibre is not available) SOGFAST (GFAST Replacement if fibre is not available) Fibre FTTP won't be available for huge numbers of people so many people will still be using FTTC or even ADSL when switch off occurs. My understanding is that most FTTC modems support SOGEA so we shouldn't need a new one. What I didn't realise is that companies like Plusnet don't seem to be planning a replacement telephone service at all. Not VOIP, nothing. Apparently they don't offer any telephone service with full fibre FTTP at the moment. So if you want to retain a land line like service (eg for an old burglar alarm) its not just a matter of buying an adaptor. Will also need to subscribe to a VOIP service, set it up etc. It's also unlikely this would work over a power cut? My existing modem certainly isn't battery backed. So is there a battery backed modem with Analogue phone line input that supports VOIP to a third part supplier that isn't your ISP? Is that what we will need? What about an OAP that currently just has a phone line? Are BT offering an plug and play adapter so they don't see any difference? We had a relative with dementia that struggled when her handset had to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Any chance of explaining what this means in english? I guess i might need to be concerned, but have no idea what any of it means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 It means the PSTN, Public Switched Telephone Network is being turned off. In simple terms no more hard wired analogue telephone service. No normal phone plugged into a socket on the wall to give you a hard wired telephony signal. This is the telephone equivalent of analogue switch off, already suffered by televisions and mobile phones. So if you want a "landline" aka hard wired home telephone, it will be a VOIP phone, Voice Over Internet Protocol, so it will only work with a broadband internet service, and in the event of a power cut unlike a hard wired analogue phone, will be very very unlikely to work. I believe the switch off plans have been put on hold due to lots of complaints about things like alarms that call for help, old people that just need a phone that works without needing internet, loss of functionality in a power cut so the vunerable cannot call for help etc etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) Who remembers SystemX? Shall stick with this. Edited March 7, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, SteamyTea said: Who remembers SystemX? I do, a digital BT telephone exchange system (after strowger). (See I am that old 🙄) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 It is somewhat ill thought through. BT Openreach would love to switch all that old copper ‘crap’ off. It’s expensive to maintain, unreliable, not scalable and requires them to employ thousands of people to maintain the network. As always though they don’t have an answer for rural areas which is a consequence of privatisation. It’s the same with the postal service and public transport. It’s hard to offer a full service in rural areas but the quid pro quo was you have all the urban areas so that subsidises the rural areas. Except they now have competition in the urban areas and that competition isn’t interested in the rural areas either. I’ve not bothered putting a telephone line into our self-build. I’ll put some ducting in just in case they ever run a cable down the road but that’s never going to happen. Therefore my only options are a shitty 4G service or Muskrat’s Starlink service which I’ve been using for a year and it’s brilliant if dear. I am unconvinced at the longevity of it though. Living rurally is a choice for us obviously and the price we pay for the clean air, great view, quietness and solitude is shitty services and expensive energy so you do your own thing. On balance it’s a compromise I am happy with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, joe90 said: strowger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Electro mechanical switches (which relied on dialed pulses not tones). A right bitch to clean and set up properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 This always raises a giggle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Just now, joe90 said: Electro mechanical switches (which relied on dialed pulses not tones). A right bitch to clean and set up properly. Yes but magical to watch and hear working …. Yes I’m an engineering saddo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Constance Cummings as a switchboard operator in "Looking for Trouble" I wonder how much heavy breathing she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: Who remembers SystemX? My brother used to work for the GPO and worked on SystemX. Can't say I know much about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 21 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Constance Cummings as a switchboard operator in "Looking for Trouble" I wonder how much heavy breathing she did. As an apprentice I used to work on a switchboard like that 😱. Before “Tim” was invented if you wanted to know the time you rang the operator and she looked at clocks on the walls around the room, I still have one of those timepieces that was scrapped when the old switch room was replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, joe90 said: still have one of those timepieces that was scrapped when the old switch room was replaced My Great Uncle Colin was an engineer for Smith Industries. His hobby was clock restoring. He had a set of wall clocks that were synchronized to the 50Hz mains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: clocks that were synchronized to the 50Hz mains. Mine is wind up, every morning the guy in charge rang Greenwich and made sure the clocks were wound and accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I used to hang around in old Strowger exchanges waiting for my dad to clock off. Wow, they were noisy but fascinating. We got FTTP a few years ago here, so after having disastrous internet we now have something ridiculously fast and reliable. Incredibly there's fttp available at our new rural plot. We still have our old landline number on retention, but we've never seen a need to do anything but use our mobiles since we abandoned copper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 openreach no longer offer copper at either of our local exchanges and fibre is looked after by a 3rd party who hasn't completely trunked our road yet. Plus, fibre installs are subsidised under Project Stratum but the area was surveyed prior to our build So 4g it is, for us. the router and voip box are both on UPS, and my old landline number is now safely transferred to VOIP and in my ownership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Wonder if they will keep area codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 6 hours ago, ProDave said: I believe the switch off plans have been put on hold due to lots of complaints about things like alarms that call for help, old people that just need a phone that works without needing internet, loss of functionality in a power cut so the vunerable cannot call for help etc etc. I do feel sorry for my mum. We got her the simplest mobile phone we could get but it's still so much more complicated than her landline phone and causes her no end of stress. Just keeping it charged is a problem - I would bet that whoever signs off these massive industry changes has never even considered that. The switch to digital TV was a while back when she could take on new things but now Sky are dropping some SD channels and while they offer a free upgrade to a SkyQ HD box, she definitely won't be able to use it. Heck, I can hardly use ours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 This looks like a useful bit of kit but probably expensive. It's called a "POTS in a box".. https://www.t-mobile.com/content/dam/tfb/pdf/tfb-iot/DataRemote_CDS-9090_DataSheet.pdf You can connect old alarms and phones to it and it interfaces them to LTE (has SIM slot) or a modem. Includes a battery backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 9 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said: Wonder if they will keep area codes? For now, BT still cling onto the old geographic rules. One of the reasons I went 4g was that with VOIP I could retain the number, whereas BT refused to let the number even move between sub-exchanges in the same main exchange group. Irony is, now that the number is ported to voip, it could in the future be ported back to BT *anywhere* in the UK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Radian said: The switch to digital TV was a while back when she could take on new things but now Sky are dropping some SD channels and while they offer a free upgrade to a SkyQ HD box, she definitely won't be able to use it. Heck, I can hardly use ours. Having not had a telly since 1994, I struggle with TV remotes. Too many buttons. My Mother on the other hand, does not have a problem. She can always find Midsomer Murders or Poirot. Volume is set at 11. Edited March 8, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said: Wonder if they will keep area codes? The codes are staying, but they're already becoming less meaningful. I moved to VOIP a couple of years ago and ported my landline number, which rings on my mobile phone wherever I have a signal. 8 hours ago, Temp said: This looks like a useful bit of kit but probably expensive. It's called a "POTS in a box". I did look at an analogue adapter (~£50) for the house when I moved over to VOIP, which could be a solution for alarms dialling out and keeping your existing phones. Needs to be on a UPS, along with the router, to keep it working in a power cut. Some VOIP Services will set up the adapter box and/or new VOIP phones, if you purchase the items through them. In the end I went with a 3rd Party VOIP Service (Yay.com) and now pay £6 / month for a "landline" with 100 mins of inclusive UK calls, incl. mobiles, and cheaper call rates than standard BT. I bought a new Grandstream WiFi VOIP phone that works off the existing house WiFi, so no extra base station. It was easy to set-up and does generally work well. I've not yet worked out why, but occasionally the handset won't ring for an incoming call, so I now make sure I power off and on every week to keep it connected. It may be that I've also routed the line to a couple of mobile phones, but I've never got it to work robustly and have all phones ringing on an incoming call. It does make me wonder if an adapter box would just sit there and work, or whether regular reboots would be required. Edited March 8, 2023 by IanR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 3 hours ago, IanR said: The codes are staying, but they're already becoming less meaningful. I moved to VOIP a couple of years ago and ported my landline number, which rings on my mobile phone wherever I have a signal. I did the same several years ago too - currently using my UK local code on my mobile phone in France via Voipfone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 >>> I do feel sorry for my mum. If it helps any, I got this kind of thing for my mum: https://ownfone.com/ ... and also she was able to use an Alexa box at home, 'Alexa call Alan' etc. We were able to see her on video which was handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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