ToughButterCup Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 One of the most common posts from new members focuses on peoples opinion : what do others think of what we want to build? The answer is derived almost exclusively from the opinions a series of people all of whom - one way or another - visit the site of your proposed build. They either have a statutory duty to attend your site, or are interested locals, some deliver stuff, yet others simply stop and chew the fat. Not all are sympathetic - and decide one way or another to let you know how they feel. In person, or by anonymous comment in the Planning Process. So I thought I'd give an overview of our experience. Reading many of the other posts, it seems that our experience is remarkably similar to most. The Councillors We've been 'at it' now for about 8 years now. There's nowt like a house-build it seems for turning otherwise normal folk into Nosey Parkers. We live on a one lane road - it's also an official cycle track, so loads of folk drive, walk shuffle or ride by most days. I wrote a few years ago about passers-by: the white van driver, forearm on the steering wheel, driving as slowly as he could - chin straining to get low enough to see as much of the site and house as possible; the little boy wondering aloud to his mum whether it was Darth Vader behind the shield while I was welding the container roof; the retired doddery old builder walking past slowly, wife proudly on one arm - his broad wink and grin always makes me smile. In twenty or more years I've never spoken to him. Ever. But what about those who make the effort to stop and chat, or - as some have - sneer? Visits to the site by others begin before Planning Permission is given. And make no mistake, those before Planning Permission visits tend to be high-stakes. We lived next to our site: lucky in some ways, others not . Read on. The doorbell goes and the unmistakeable profile of the Chair of The Parish Council peers through the faux glass whorls in the door. "Just passing " was the introductory lie. He had the grace faintly to wince when he heard himself say that. His real agenda was to protest at the design we wanted. Sharp Scandi, clad to look like the old local barns which litter the countryside here. In a previous life, I used to run Conflict Resolution Courses but - when it comes to my own conflicts…. managing the irritation flushing rapidly into my cheeks was difficult. The technique runs loosely like this …..Repeat the question, rephrased if helpful, show you understand the problem, offer some sympathy for the challenger's situation. Stuff that mate. This is my place, my house my build my… my… my …. And up yours if you don't like it. It is very lucky that I am married to a consummate diplomat. Lucky also for me that a local builder had - using PD rights - just erected a wooden barn within sight of our build. (see image below) I swivelled on my heel and waved my hand in the direction of his beautifully clad barn 50 meters away. Same size as our proposed house. I swear the Parish Councillor nearly swallowed his tongue. I couldn't resist it: "You mean you don't like that either ?" Further waffle only dug him into a deeper hole, and instead of being kind, I continued "Our current chocolate box house is built of stone isn't it?" Nods sagely. "And we are proposing a timber build, but you want ours built in stone." More sage nods. "How long Councillor, does it take to create stone? A few million years? And how long does it take to create wood? " "Well we (the Parish Council) are all agreed you should be building in stone" came the -now- tart response. "Our whole design philosophy focusses on sustainability. I'll use the material that only needs a few hundred years to reproduce over a material which takes a few million to recycle itself anytime." Managing the local politics of a potential newbuild is a nightmare. At the time, I'd had not made time to think about how to manage this issue of the build. Learning fast though. We parted on the worst of terms. A significant error on my part. Other Councillors came and went. One even told us that our newbuild would spoil her Sunday morning run. Five years later, that same Councillor obtained Planning Permission for her own garden and built four executive houses on the land. At the same time, she had the effrontery to campaign for 'starter houses' in the area. At least , once she had sold the newbuilds and her own house, she had the decency to move out of the area. I'm looking forward to meeting her one day. Can't wait. And then last week : on another matter, I had the singular displeasure of a knock on the door from another hissy weasel of a Parish Councillor. One who had shared her ex-colleague's opinion: we should have built in stone. She wanted to tell me wonderfully our new house was blending in to the countryside : you can hardly see it from the canal-side. (see image below) Mountains sometimes do pole vault to Mohamed. Conclusion? Tolerate - but only just and for just long enough. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Our new build has divided opinion as well. Massively it transpired. We fitted a Ring doorbell as soon as we had power and internet, long before we moved in, and we and got to hear the comments of passers by whilst the build progressed. We live in a ‘chocolate box’ village and our house doesn’t quite fit with the local vernacular. The Ring picked up an almost 50/50 split of “I f*cking hate it” to “I love it!” The older generation were mainly the former (I’m one of them now I guess, but I love it!) and the younger generation mainly the latter. And that’s why we - and ALL the locals - call it ‘Marmite House’ We we’re more fortunate than you @ToughButterCup in that the Parish Council had no real objections, but our nearest neighbour has told us how much she hates the place and can’t bear to look out of her window to see it. We don’t like they’re chalet bungalow with numerous different finishes as it’s been extended over it’s life but we kept that to ourselves. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 @ToughButterCup Your house looks beautiful particularly so compared to the cottages next door with their crap extensions . It really does blend in to the landscape and looks like it’s been there years. It’s mostly just envy I expect. We have very few neighbours and we’re on a rural road. But there a fair amount of passing traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Council avoid bco try to avoid neighbors (expletive deleted) off people passing who show interest , engage women of the night invite in 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Looks in-keeping from the back to be sure, big - but I wouldn’t worry about that lol People are always going to have an opinion, often it will be jealousy and dislike of new things. I always try to think from their perspective and don’t take the mick, but I’ve heard every daft complaint under the sun at this point. ‘The ASHP will trigger my diabetes’, ‘the fire escape is onto our shared pavement’, etc If your neighbours are coming over, or you feel like you want to run it past them before you build, do so with the proviso that they will probably shaft you on the planning website as soon as you leave the room, it’s not personal. And also, if you yourself want to object, the planners have a list of reasons they will pretend to care about and don’t need to know about your life story and irrational fears of timber cladding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Excellent thread. We have a newbuild-ish slightly down the road (I think it's sideways and upwards on a bungalow), for which purposes the peeps bought track 2 into the local allotments to give more space sideways. I (and my neighbour the architect) find it OK but uninspiring, and so much more could have been done. I have not told them my opinion, and see no reason to do so since it is quite unobjectionable. If I were asked for my opinion I would have done much more with the upwards extension, which is only going to the master suite, and could have had far more. But - not my place to say unless asked, or some other reason were it to impinge on neighbours. I might have been incliined to be a little less prickly with the PCC Chair, but I was ot in the situation. Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 9 hours ago, Russdl said: Our new build has divided opinion as well. Massively it transpired. ... The Ring picked up an almost 50/50 split of “I f*cking hate it” to “I love it!” The older generation were mainly the former (I’m one of them now I guess, but I love it!) and the younger generation mainly the latter. and 2 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: ... I have not told them my opinion, and see no reason to do so since it is quite unobjectionable. If I were asked for my opinion I would have done much more ... But - not my place to say unless asked, or some other reason were it to impinge on neighbours. .. and 20 minutes ago, Papillon said: ... If your neighbours are coming over, or you feel like you want to run it past them before you build, do so with the proviso that they will probably shaft you on the planning website as soon as you leave the room ... There is a difference - illustrated above - between Material and Non-material Considerations in relation to Planning Applications. But I think, since we're human, we take more notice of simple (simplistic?) human comment. Our build has taught me - 11 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: ... But - not my place to say unless asked, or some other reason were it to impinge on neighbours. .... Unless asked : I feel another thread coming on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Great post Ian and will benefit many self builders in the future It’s very easy as a self builder to think Why me Why am I being treated like this by planners and others Especially when you see a nearby application fly through planning without any fuss If you where to google the term self builder I’m sure your name would pop up somewhere More hardcore self builder than typical 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 parish councillors have zero say on the detailed plans. Don't even bother arguing with them. All the parish committee can do is recommend or refuse and because its joe public they are clueless on actual planning matters 99% of the time anyway so are ignored by the planners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Well my build was refused four times by the bl@@dy planners but passed by the Secretary of State at appeal, I have had loads of compliments from passers by in fact not one complaint or negative comment, it is “chocolate box cottage “esk people have even said “wow, who designed that?”, what do planners know 🤷♂️. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 4 hours ago, joe90 said: have had loads of compliments from passers by in fact not one complaint or negative comment, Only because your git of a neighbour had his house taken off him by the receiver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 20 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Only because your git of a neighbour had his house taken off him by the receiver. Well remembered, he never saw it finished, just thought he could bully people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 8 hours ago, Dave Jones said: parish councillors have zero say on the detailed plans. Not the case. They can make relevant comments ( consistent with the local plan) and can then be taken more seriously than other commenters. That applies both pro and con. Of course some just apply personal comments and try to bully. They also get a 3 minutes statement at a council statement if they ask....and it can make a difference. It does pay to be diplomatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 The most stupid (shows their lack of knowledge) comment was from the planner at my previous 1930's house who refused my planning for a detached garage. I had described the construction as "concrete block and rendered to match the house". The planning officer said to me "but it would still look like a prefabricated garage" and no amount of explaining would change her view that it was not a prefab building. It passed on appeal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 Local politics and more especially very local micropolitics really does matter. Our immediate neighbour got the micropolitics of things so deeply wrong that he is now facing his second Enforcement Appeal in the hallowed presence of an HM Inspector . (Very nice man / lady) Here's chapter and verse. I'll be writing it up in due course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Valley Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) Luckily our build was towards the head of a small steep cul-de-sac of 8 properties. Even though you could see the build from other parts of the of the village only one person came to view the build whom we did not know. They were a lecturer in building techniques visiting family and wanted to discuss the ICF. No problem good chat and wave goodbye. No local councillors visited and we attended the local parish council meeting which discussed our application. No other member of the public was there. That went through without a hitch. As for neighbours - well one has been an absolute arse of the highest order and I will never forgive him for it. I know it's part of the process but in a time of high pressure during a build you don't need threats and intimidation especially if they are never backed up. Edited February 12, 2023 by Happy Valley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 14 hours ago, saveasteading said: Not the case. They can make relevant comments ( consistent with the local plan) and can then be taken more seriously than other commenters. That applies both pro and con. Of course some just apply personal comments and try to bully. They also get a 3 minutes statement at a council statement if they ask....and it can make a difference. It does pay to be diplomatic. rubbish. only valid planning matters are considered by the planners and more importantly the inspector should it goto appeal. 99.9% of parish councillors cannot distinguish moaning and opinion with planning policy. They have no option to make any sort of representation to a formal planning committee either, perhaps you can link us to some minutes if this isn't the case where you live ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 @Dave Jones, you and @saveasteading are saying the same thing. Just different words, and in a different order. (All the right notes in the wrong order : Andre Previn should have sued 🤪) If a material Consideration is raised, then it doesn't matter who says it. It mut be considered You are right, Parish Councillors are often less than helpful. But it is a scandal that Parish Councillors receive so little support in terms of training to do the job they are asked to do. And , by their behaviour, many bring themselves into disrepute (see above .... ' spoil my Sunday morning run' ) . Parish Councils let off steam - just like Social Media. Doesn't last long, but scalds when touched. And even if scalded, the burn soon heals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: scandal that Parish Councillors receive so little support in terms of training Training is available, but most don't take it. Most don't even understand (or want to ) the codes applying to their role. Eg declaring an interest. On a more basic level, how many councillors can really understand and read drawings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 32 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: link us to some minutes if this isn't the case where you live ? What you say is right. But I have been at Borough planning meetings where the head planner has instructed the council that what a Councillor has just said is without merit as it does not relate to the application, or does not relate to policy. One of our applications had the vote delayed 3 times because the planner ( not chair) had to clarify what they were voting on, and to consider only the facts. Parish Councillors even more likely to use the "I don't like it" or conversely " their house, do whatever they like" logic. Difficult for clerk and chair...who may not be trained themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 My other half chaired the Littlebury Parish Council for a year. It’s a hellish job. She made it clear than none of her fellow councillors were experts in planning and that opinions aren’t the same as facts or policy. A lot of the parish councillors are decent people with the right intentions. Just as many aren’t and have their own agendas. But it’s local politics so best to stay clear of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Just now, Kelvin said: it’s local politics so best to stay clear of it No, good people please put yourselves forward, or the others will run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Well I saw the grief my other half had to deal with and she’s good people. She vowed to steer clear of it afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Dave Jones said: 99.9% of parish councillors cannot distinguish moaning and opinion with planning policy. that’s not true - local parish councils are now a proving ground for a lot of SPADs and county councillors who are looking to progress into mainstream politics. They have moved on a long way from Maureen and Dennis who want to complain about the state of the bus shelter … 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, PeterW said: that’s not true - local parish councils are now a proving ground for a lot of SPADs and county councillors who are looking to progress into mainstream politics. Really https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-56101198 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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