My self-build DIY plumbing

[Pocster]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

i believe @markc was responding to this post

 

which is to do with the screens in the kids bathrooms. 🙂

 

now thinking about flappers for the kids screens as well after the discussions about splashing on to flat tiles outside of the shower former as the kids will have 1500mm trays and only 800mm screens. but will be the standard walk-in shower with a wall at both ends and side with a glass panel and walk-in entrance. kind of like this

 

Cooooorrrrr you finished that quick ! ✊ 

[saveasteading]

On 04/10/2022 at 18:22, ProDave said:

Drains can be challenging, they all have to run down hill

Lesson one. 

[Pocster]

Suggest this to SWMBO 

[ProDave]

18 hours ago, Thorfun said:

So what’s the solution? And don’t say a door!

Short hinged glass shower screen.

 

 

They are dirt cheap, sold in the sheds as an over bath shower screen.  Ours are set about 100mm off the floor and the top is about head height for us.  Very little water splashes over or under.

 

We have two, one to stop the towels getting splashed and one to stop the door and toilet getting splashed.

 

They hinge either way and fold almost flat against the wall when the shower is not in use.

[Nickfromwales]

8 hours ago, Thorfun said:

morning all. on the train in to work this morning i've done some research and found many websites that state the splash zone for a doorless shower is 6'/180cm. we have over 2m from the wall shower head and 180cm from the drench shower head to the toilet so i'm convinced the toilet won't get wet. one article says in his experience the splash zone is under 4'

 

https://www.pmmag.com/articles/96302-designing-a-walk-in-shower

https://designingidea.com/doorless-walk-in-shower-dimensions/

https://www.twellis.com/blog/open-showers-is-this-trend-for-you/

 

so i'm now heading back to thinking about getting the 1850mm x 900mm former and just dealing with walking on the 'slope' of the former when going to the toilet. it's a pretty shallow fall though so i would think it's not that noticeable, right?

 

would that get your sign off @Nickfromwales

Yup. You won’t notice it in the length, only IF you walked side to side. Lay off the pop and you’ll be alright. 

[Thorfun]

this weekend I'm planning to get the toilets plumbed in which includes installing the RWH header tank in the loft. here's a picture of the area I'm going to install the header tank and the header tank..

 

 

I was planning to build a table/stand for the tank to sit on so it's higher and has a slightly higher head. Also I can then install the manifold for the toilets near the floor level so they're easier to access if/when I ever need to turn a toilet off. Can anyone give some advice on what sort of supports I'll need within the stand to take the weight of the tank full? it has a capacity of 100 litres.

 

 

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

this weekend I'm planning to get the toilets plumbed in which includes installing the RWH header tank in the loft. here's a picture of the area I'm going to install the header tank and the header tank..

 

 

I was planning to build a table/stand for the tank to sit on so it's higher and has a slightly higher head. Also I can then install the manifold for the toilets near the floor level so they're easier to access if/when I ever need to turn a toilet off. Can anyone give some advice on what sort of supports I'll need within the stand to take the weight of the tank full? it has a capacity of 100 litres.

 

 

 

I would just use some cls off cuts to make a stand - it's only 100kg.You could use the existing truss supports as one side. Then ideally a marine ply top (most plumbers just use WBP or equivalent mind you). You're not going to benefit massively with head height unless you decide to squeeze it right up at the top of the roof space.

[Thorfun]

2 minutes ago, SimonD said:

 

I would just use some cls off cuts to make a stand - it's only 100kg.You could use the existing truss supports as one side. Then ideally a marine ply top (most plumbers just use WBP or equivalent mind you). You're not going to benefit massively with head height unless you decide to squeeze it right up at the top of the roof space.

thanks. i have plenty of cls off-cuts. i'll put some diagonal bracing in the stand as well just in case. i'm sure it can't hurt!

[saveasteading]

29 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

diagonal

Yes. Not just in case though. Essential I'd say.

[SimonD]

33 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

i'll put some diagonal bracing in the stand

 

You can never have enough diagonal bracing 😁

[Thorfun]

can someone please sanity check my work? I will have 5 pipes coming from the manifold which will be installed on the right hand side of the stand holding the tank in the photo below.

 

 

4 of those pipes will be doubling back on themselves. I've run one of them and it looks kind of wrong if you know what I mean. I've used cold formed bends so there's no chance of kinking but I'm wondering if I should just go straight down and then 90° under the caber deck rather than doing a 180° turn at the end of the flooring?

 

part of me is reluctant to drill through the decking in the loft but I'm not sure why!? that decision just doesn't seem rational.

 

what would other's do?

[Pocster]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

what would other's do?

Do what feels right . That’s what a girl said too me once .

[Thorfun]

2 minutes ago, pocster said:

Do what feels right . That’s what a girl said too me once .

Then you married her

[Pocster]

Just now, Thorfun said:

Then you married her

And since then my plumbing has never been wrong 😉

[Thorfun]

5 minutes ago, pocster said:

Do what feels right

I think going straight down feels like the right thing to do. I just can’t figure out why I’ve got a bee in my bonnet about drilling the floor in the loft! I mean, it’s a loft ffs! And if it ever gets converted to bedrooms then I’ll just re-board it. I really need to get over it, right?

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

I think going straight down feels like the right thing to do.

Oh dear ! You been on the fizzy pop again !? .Straight down is always right .

[Thorfun]

6 minutes ago, pocster said:

Oh dear ! You been on the fizzy pop again !? .Straight down is always right .

Not sure if you’re talking about plumbing or sex anymore! So confused. 

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

Not sure if you’re talking about plumbing or sex anymore! So confused. 

Sex and plumbing are the same . You need the right parts for the job . If it’s too tight it won’t work . If it’s too loose it won’t work . Take your time to understand both fittings . A bit of practice helps . When you are ready you bang those bits together ! 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Sex and plumbing are the same . You need the right parts for the job . If it’s too tight it won’t work . If it’s too loose it won’t work . Take your time to understand both fittings . A bit of practice helps . When you are ready you bang those bits together ! 

 

 

[Thorfun]

morning all. I actually need some plumbing help so I'm hoping that @Nickfromwales and others are around this morning.

 

I just started to look at plumbing in our RWH header tank to run the toilets from and have just noticed that the supply pipe from the header tank to appliances is shown as being 22mm. my manifold is 15mm and I was planning on running 15mm to the toilets and washing machine. here's the plumbing schematic from the manufacturer.

 

 

Scan_18062023_103638_000693.pdf

 

so as you can see it's a 22mm pipe from the rain director to the tank and appliances. Can I run a 22mm pipe from the Rain Director (that's the control panel) to the header tank and tee off that near the tank and reduce to 15mm in to my hep2o manifold and then run 15mm from each manifold outlet to appliance? any idea why they've specified 22mm to the appliances? that would have to be reduced at the toilet end anyway as aren't toilet's/washing machines 15mm fittings?

 

I would phone the company I purchased from (rainwaterharvesting.co.uk) but it's a Sunday and I was hoping to get this done today as I'm back to the day job tomorrow.

 

any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Thorfun

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

morning all. I actually need some plumbing help so I'm hoping that @Nickfromwales and others are around this morning.

 

I just started to look at plumbing in our RWH header tank to run the toilets from and have just noticed that the supply pipe from the header tank to appliances is shown as being 22mm. my manifold is 15mm and I was planning on running 15mm to the toilets and washing machine. here's the plumbing schematic from the manufacturer.

 

 

Scan_18062023_103638_000693.pdf 593.15 kB · 0 downloads

 

so as you can see it's a 22mm pipe from the rain director to the tank and appliances. Can I run a 22mm pipe from the Rain Director (that's the control panel) to the header tank and tee off that near the tank and reduce to 15mm in to my hep2o manifold and then run 15mm from each manifold outlet to appliance? any idea why they've specified 22mm to the appliances? that would have to be reduced at the toilet end anyway as aren't toilet's/washing machines 15mm fittings?

 

I would phone the company I purchased from (rainwaterharvesting.co.uk) but it's a Sunday and I was hoping to get this done today as I'm back to the day job tomorrow.

 

any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you.

Do the MI's mention the option to use an accumulator vs a break tank? I don't fit break tanks / go gravity tbh, just seems like a leap backwards to me. If that's an option, just switch the break tank to an accumulator (100L or so should suffice ) LINK and then you'll have mains pressure to everything. 

 

Just noticed the system says "a minimum of 5m between the bottom of the break tank and the washing machine"!

 

To answer your actual question, you may have issues with the time it takes the WC's to fill, but I doubt it would genuinely matter that much. Just with gravity you usually preserve the pressure / flow by upsizing the pipework to compensate, hence they recommend / spec 22mm.

[Thorfun]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Do the MI's mention the option to use an accumulator vs a break tank? I don't fit break tanks / go gravity tbh, just seems like a leap backwards to me. If that's an option, just switch the break tank to an accumulator (100L or so should suffice ) LINK and then you'll have mains pressure to everything. 

 

Just noticed the system says "a minimum of 5m between the bottom of the break tank and the washing machine"!

 

To answer your actual question, you may have issues with the time it takes the WC's to fill, but I doubt it would genuinely matter that much. Just with gravity you usually preserve the pressure / flow by upsizing the pipework to compensate, hence they recommend / spec 22mm.

sorry Nick. not sure what you mean by a break tank? this is a gravity system. when the header tank is empty the pump in the underground RWH tank kicks in and fills up the header tank in the loft with rainwater (or mains if the RWH tank is empty) and then the toilets/washing machine are run from the header tank.

 

the loft is over 5m above the washing machine so we have sufficient head for that.

 

thanks for the explanation about why the 22mm is specified and it kind of makes sense but the 22mm pipes will need to be reduced to 15mm at the WC/washing machine though, right? so is that not then a bottleneck to the preservation of the pressure/flow?

 

part of me is very tempted to just ditch the header tank and rain director and just take a feed from the basins in the respective bathrooms to fill the toilets and be done with it! much simpler but kind of is a waste of the RWH tank then. 🤦‍♂️

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

not sure what you mean by a break tank?

Header tank etc. The "break" (iirc A-A) is required to separate potable feed from Cat5 RWH (as RWH is classed as more dangerous than effluent!). It's the reason you cannot have the cold mains top-up feed in the turret of the RWH tank eg to prevent (eradicate) the possibility of accidental human consumption / reverse contamination of the potable systems.

I've looked at where you are with this, and you'll defo be staying with what you have. My recommendation would be to jack that tank up as high as is absolutely possible. Connect and test what you have, and deal with issues IF they occur.

You have one or more get out of jail card(s); add a pump later down the line (the type that people have to add to gravity cold supplies to appliances such as washing machines). LINK  

Or, cover your arse for the whole house with one of these LINK

 

As said, do nothing until there is a problem.

[Thorfun]

14 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Header tank etc. The "break" (iirc A-A) is required to separate potable feed from Cat5 RWH (as RWH is classed as more dangerous than effluent!). It's the reason you cannot have the cold mains top-up feed in the turret of the RWH tank eg to prevent (eradicate) the possibility of accidental human consumption / reverse contamination of the potable systems.

I've looked at where you are with this, and you'll defo be staying with what you have. My recommendation would be to jack that tank up as high as is absolutely possible. Connect and test what you have, and deal with issues IF they occur.

You have one or more get out of jail card(s); add a pump later down the line (the type that people have to add to gravity cold supplies to appliances such as washing machines). LINK  

Or, cover your arse for the whole house with one of these LINK

 

As said, do nothing until there is a problem.

ahh, right. break tank makes sense. I believe that is all handled within the Rain Director

 

 

message received and understood though. will carry on with 15mm and can add a pump later if we need to. thank you!

[Thorfun]

so.....while I was procrastinating about what to do with the RWH header tank I decided to cut out the chipboard for our en-suite shower former. we decided on and bought the 1850mm x 900mm Impey system. I was very fortunate in that the tray was 39mm away from each wall and the blade on my circular saw, by complete chance, was 39mm from the edge of the guard! I set it to 21mm depth so as to not cut in to the posi-joists and let rip! I couldn't do all of it though and had to use the multi-tool for some, which was really slow.

 

anyway, it's done and the former fits and there's space for the waste between the joists.....just!*

 

 

lovely. but, as always, I have questions!

 

1. do I need to fit extra support at the right end (it overhangs the joist by about 40mm)

2. do I need supports along the long edges? our joists are at 300mm centres which leaves about 150mm between edges of joists. I'm thinking that the impey should be fine without extra support but thought I'd double check.

3. our tiler wants the tray to be 6mm proud of the floor so he can put board down to tank and tile on to. he doesn't recommend tiling straight on to the 22mm chipboard. What is the best wood to use to raise the former by 6mm? would it simply be 6mm ply? or is there something better?

 

* I've not actually got the waste out to test yet so that comment is with this caveat. but it 'looks' like it'll fit. 😉