Critique please! New Build Floorplans

[hinge and bracket]

Hi

 

We have been reading the forum with great interest for some time and have found it to be interesting and informative. Now at last we have our own project!

 

Our plot is located in the Lomond & Trossachs National Park and currently has planning permission for the demolition and rebuild of the existing property on the site. We are now at the stage of having developed some new plans of our own design and would be really grateful for any feedback on our proposed design.

 

The structure is likely to be timber frame and we plan to have MVHR and ASHP, we will also need a water filtration system as we are not on the mains supply - supposedly we have access to private water supply but have still to locate it.

 

The plans are for a two storey replacement as the existing property is two storey, though this may prove contentious as the norm in this area is 1.5 storey.

Thanks in advance! 

[Iceverge]

Congratulations and welcome. 

Well done for sharing with the crowd. I wish I had. So much knowledge here. 

 

I'll keep it brief. 

 

Good.

 

1.Layout. 

2. Form factor.

3. Simple shape( Only one sticky out bit and one sticky in bit )

4. Elegant overall proportions. 

 

For further consideration. 

 

1. OVERHEATING!!! Large SW Windows with no shading will bake you not to mention the skylights in the living room.

2. Stone facade. A bit disengenious looking, not to mention far more expensive compared to other cladding on a TF.  

3. Window jumble sale. To paraphrase Goldilocks, they're either

-too small ( lots of thermal bridges and no light)

-too tall(poor views)

-too large (overheating and heat loss)

-too wide ( structurally expensive if done well thermally)

4. Flat roof on sticky out bit would be better off pitched and ditch the parapet. It's a recipie for long term trouble. I really like TF but you need to be doubly defensive about weathering. 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marvin]

HI @hinge and bracket

 

ASHP position?? Buffer tank? Sort this out very early!!!!  If you want the ASHP to be efficient you need the external unit close to the building, if you are going to use a buffer tank the ASHP needs to be as close as you can get to the buffer tank. All external pipework (outside the buildings thermal envelope) needs to be super lagged. The plant room seems to be on the front garden side. Can you obtain permission to put an ASHP in the front garden (I would not want mine there). Check the MCS rules which would allow you to install one without planning (well in England but I don't know the Scottish rules)  

 

MVHR ducting in to all 'dry' rooms extract from all 'wet' rooms to the MVHR box. This is something that you should look at early because of all the ducting that needs to be installed. At least 2 pipes from the loft to the downstairs ceiling??

 

I'm not that good at form but form can be marred by function requirements..

 

@Iceverge is right about solar gain. It is a pain for us and we only have 4.2m2 in the east wall and 8m2 in the west wall. Because we have AIM  we overheat when the temperature is over 16C outside. Luckily we also have APE so we can cool the place!

 

Good luck

The below may help.

Marvin.

 

It worth considering all the AIM and APE elements before making decisions. That is Airtightness, Insulation, Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery, and Air Source Heat Pump, Photovoltaics and Electric Vehicle.

 

Some of these will not work properly without the others:

1. A MVHR will not work properly without Airtightness.
2. An Air Source Heat Pump will have to compensate for the lack of Airtightness and Insulation to the degree that the benefits become questionable, especially during winter, without them.
3. An ASHP uses electricity and Photovoltaics can supply a little during winter and about 6 times more during summer when cooling can be a problem and an ASHP can supply cooling.
4. PV can supply a little to an Electric Vehicle during winter and about 6 times more during summer (assuming your vehicle can be plugged in at home during sunny days).

So if finances cause you to have to consider only a few in my humble opinion AIM first and go APE later. (but prepare the property for the APE works as much as you can).

 

 

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome.

 

Not much I can add to the above, but if you get a push back against full 2 storey, try for 1.75 storey, with just a little shaved off.  One house here where we also have the same expectation managed to get approval for full 2 storey at the back and only the front facing the road having a slight not to partly room in roof.

[Kelvin]

Welcome. I’ve found this forum to be an invaluable source of knowledge experience and support. 
 

Look is great overall. Flows well with a good room layout. I agree with window comment. They look a bit randomly placed. 
 

The overheating problem is well made. That said, I just had all my heat loss calculations back which covers solar and overheating and their view is it’s not significant and we have more south facing glass but no east facing glass. I’m going to do my own calcs. 
 

The two storey design is a risk. Obviously you’re replacing an existing two storey building. We were told rural two storey buildings rarely if ever get approved. That said I have seen a few. Have you thought about how flexible your basic design will be in case they refuse the two storey design? i.e. could the front be reduced in height or even switch to room in roof design? 
 

I don’t know how far you’ve got with how the building will be sited, site levels, access from the road, visibility splays. It might all be quite straightforward for your plot but we ran into some difficulties with ours and an inexperienced architect and long delays for engineering reports. It’s set us back six months. Had I more experience we could have avoided much of the delay. Also don’t assume the architects get the application correct and follow the planning guidelines to the letter. Our application was invalidated due to really simple avoidable errors such as make sure every drawing submitted has a scale bar! If you are going to have PV and an ASHP include some documentation on both (technical brochures for example) They don’t need to be the final equipment you’ll use. 
 

Finally get the water source found and checked ASAP! 
 

 

[Dreadnaught]

Minor comment.

 

That door clash from the Kitchen in to the Utility Room and Plant Room would drive me nuts. Suggest to move the door from Kitchen along to the corner-turn of the units, near the hob, so closer to the outside back-door. This also deals with the issue that corner kitchen-units are tricky to design for usefulness. Move the window and units along in the Utility Room accordingly.

[CharlieKLP]

I like the layout.

 

The look is fine I see what you’re doing, but the windows are too small in proportion to the amount of wall. It gives it a bit of a wincey look. It adds to the feel of massing, if you are trying to steal through a full height house it acts against you.

 

I think the materials could be better proportioned too.

 

The entrance also, could be more attractive.

 

Bedroom 3’s window is too high for fire escape.

 

in all, I think you need a designer to fix it up and ‘roll it in glitter’ as the say, but you’re on the right track.

 

 

[Bemak]

As others have said, it's a nice layout - flows well and I would agree with the comments on the various window sizes and the choice of stone. 

 

One gripe I would have at this point is the wasted space under the stairs? What do you see happening here? Just keep it open and "light"? I'd like to see a section through the final flight as well to see if the door into the lounge is well clear - I don't like when it feels like its 'under the stairs' if that makes sense. 

 

If you wanted to reduce the number of doors in the master bedroom you could look at accessing the ensuite via the WIW which I think can be nice and works well. Depends on how you foresee yourself using it though - everyone is different. For such a big room, the bed feels a bit tight to the south-west wall - keep an eye on that especially if you are forced to reduce the height to 1.5 / 1.75 storey. If the view north-west was decent you could make that window full height and lose those two small windows facing south-west which would allow you to put the bed on that wall. Without knowing the context it's hard to tell. You could do the opposite too and lose that window to the north-east and have the bed on that wall, with a large window facing south-west. Maybe the MB, Bedroom 2 and the Stairs all have the same window type. 

 

The stone definitely isn't doing anything for you. I would keep it all the same. Black timber would look very nice here. This has always been a favourite of mine. Alternative you could look at applying the timber cladding in a different way, like standing it on edge which would help to define areas like this.

 

It might be nice to have a stove in the lounge - you'd just need to consider the flue now. 

 

I would move the door to bedroom 2 a bit more to the east, closer to the wardrobes. 

 

Your bathroom looks a touch on the tight side too, maybe that door needs to move closer to the bath also.  

 

I'd consider a slot window on the landing looking north for a visual connection out front (for security). 

 

It looks great though and is a very good start

 

[hinge and bracket]

Hi

 

Thanks all for the very constructive feedback and helpful advice, plenty of food for thought! 

 

Fully take on from everyone about the window sizing - we need to review this with the architect.

 

Please see our responses to edited comments below! 

 

On 14/09/2022 at 21:44, Iceverge said:

 

1. OVERHEATING!!! Large SW Windows with no shading will bake you not to mention the skylights in the living room.

2. Stone facade. A bit disengenious looking, not to mention far more expensive compared to other cladding on a TF.  

3. Window jumble sale. To paraphrase Goldilocks, they're either

-too small ( lots of thermal bridges and no light)

-too tall(poor views)

-too large (overheating and heat loss)

-too wide ( structurally expensive if done well thermally)

4. Flat roof on sticky out bit would be better off pitched and ditch the parapet. It's a recipie for long term trouble. I really like TF but you need to be doubly defensive about weathering. 

 

We quite fancied the stone to break up the look but on the same page as you regarding the expense so may have to revisit this.

We do need to do the calcs on the solar gain - probably been a little too relaxed on that given the weather on the west of Scotland.

Agree regarding the flat roof, we would prefer pitched on that section. We have previously discussed with the architect - I think we need to be a bit more pushy.

On 14/09/2022 at 22:27, Marvin said:

HI @hinge and bracket

 

ASHP position?? Buffer tank? Sort this out very early!!!!  If you want the ASHP to be efficient you need the external unit close to the building, if you are going to use a buffer tank the ASHP needs to be as close as you can get to the buffer tank. All external pipework (outside the buildings thermal envelope) needs to be super lagged. The plant room seems to be on the front garden side. Can you obtain permission to put an ASHP in the front garden (I would not want mine there). 

 

On 14/09/2022 at 22:27, Marvin said:

 

@Iceverge

 

Thanks for this, very helpful. We were  planning to put ASHP on the gable by the door to the utility room - need to give that some thought.

 

On 14/09/2022 at 22:54, Kelvin said:

 

Finally get the water source found and checked ASAP! 
 

 

 

We would love to find the source of our private water supply, the existing house was stripped for the pipework pre us buying so we can't find any stopcock etc. Would have liked to dig about outside with a mini digger but we aren't allowed to do anything outside without an archaeologist present due to planning restraints. On the plus side there is a well so if the worst comes to the worst that may be an option.

 

On 15/09/2022 at 09:22, Dreadnaught said:

 

That door clash from the Kitchen in to the Utility Room and Plant Room would drive me nuts. Suggest to move the door from Kitchen along to the corner-turn of the units, near the hob, so closer to the outside back-door. This also deals with the issue that corner kitchen-units are tricky to design for usefulness. Move the window and units along in the Utility Room accordingly.

 

Good spot - schoolboy error we should have spotted that! 

 

QUOTE IN CharlieKLP- not all of it

On 15/09/2022 at 10:56, CharlieKLP said:

 

The entrance also, could be more attractive.

 

Bedroom 3’s window is too high for fire escape.

 

in all, I think you need a designer to fix it up and ‘roll it in glitter’ as the say, but you’re on the right track.

 

 

The entrance is another thing that we have discussed with the architect but didn't get much feedback on improving it.

 

On 14/09/2022 at 21:17, hinge and bracket said:

Hi

 

We have been reading the forum with great interest for some time and have found it to be interesting and informative. Now at last we have our own project!

 

Our plot is located in the Lomond & Trossachs National Park and currently has planning permission for the demolition and rebuild of the existing property on the site. We are now at the stage of having developed some new plans of our own design and would be really grateful for any feedback on our proposed design.

 

The structure is likely to be timber frame and we plan to have MVHR and ASHP, we will also need a water filtration system as we are not on the mains supply - supposedly we have access to private water supply but have still to locate it.

 

The plans are for a two storey replacement as the existing property is two storey, though this may prove contentious as the norm in this area is 1.5 storey.

Thanks in advance! 

 

[ETC]

My solution. Elevation to follow.

[bassanclan]

You could rejig the airing cupboard position and entrance doors to bedroom 1 and bathroom to make the long dark corridor half the length.

Would it work with the bathrooms an en-suites at the front? Then alot of services would be in the same area, upstairs and downstairs

[JohnMo]

We had a water diviner, with great results, not did he find where to site our borehole he identified depth and all the underground streams feeding it.

 

So may be worth finding one near you he may be able to sort out where your water is.

[CharlieKLP]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

We had a water diviner, with great results, not did he find where to site our borehole he identified depth and all the underground streams feeding it.

 

So may be worth finding one near you he may be able to sort out where your water is.

 

It really irks me how there's no scientific reason this works, but I've seen my uncle find pipes that aren't on plans too. 

[ETC]

2 hours ago, bassanclan said:

You could rejig the airing cupboard position and entrance doors to bedroom 1 and bathroom to make the long dark corridor half the length.

Would it work with the bathrooms an en-suites at the front? Then alot of services would be in the same area, upstairs and downstairs

Services stacked.

[Iceverge]

I'm liking this. Is it South Up in your plans?

 

How about mirroring it to get the morning sun from the east in the main bedroom and kitchen and evening sun in the snug? 

 

[ETC]

North appears to be as shown on OP’s sketch. I could rejig the plan to make best use of the sun path such as the attached for a previous OP. Watch this space.

[Iceverge]

 

Much a copy of @ETC

 

 Mirrored the plans. Omitted the UVC from the first floor. Tried some new materials, Corrugated metal and Timber Cladding. Corrugated metal looks good on its own too I think, especially in a rural setting. 

 

170m2 

 

Footprint 13500*7500

 

Added an external porch and also an external porch with coats area for catching drafts. 

 

Revised the kitchen with a peninsula. 

 

Added some South facing Verandas for shading and some roof overhangs for same and weathering. 

 

Omitted Void and created space upstairs for office. 

 

 

Food for thought maybe? 

 

 

 

 

PS forgot to draw in bathroom items. Woops. 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Iceverge

[MikeSharp01]

On 16/09/2022 at 21:35, hinge and bracket said:

Agree regarding the flat roof, we would prefer pitched on that section. We have previously discussed with the architect - I think we need to be a bit more pushy.

Just tell them you want it gone and let them worry about how to make it look right as I suspect that is what they are worried about.

[Bozza]

Your proposed downstairs is spookily similar to mine. Only we enter from the south so staircase area is reversed.  So we have lived in it for over 18 months & comments are based upon our experience & what we’d change in our house that is similar as your layout. 

 

1.  You need a vestibule area or at least an overhang.   For inclement weather.   You need entrance storage.  
 

2.  Too much south facing glazing especially lounge.  When it’s sunny / hot your lounge will be unusable.  Like ours.  Less glazing.  You will use your north facing snug more than you think.  Think about making lounge slight smaller & snug slightly bigger & squarer.  Have a think about having a built in recess / chimney breast type set up for your telly.  We did this with great success.  Means that when you come into lounge you don’t see down back of telly & brackets / cables etc.

 

3. upstairs try to make the bedroom less rectangular & more squarer.   Something I wish I’d done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

Really good comments so far. Mine:

 

1 - I think you could enlarge your shower trays. Something like 1.2x.8 is better than .9 x .9, just to use.

 

2 - I can see no provision for boots and cloaks. Is there space at the end of the utility by the back door for a big cupboard?

 

3 - Not really sure about the front door area. If this is Scotland do you not want a porch, or at least an overhang?

 

4 - The upstairs bathrooms look as though they could be improved wrt plumbing runs - especially soil pipes.

 

5 - I might go for a sliding door on the plant room entrance, to help the door clash and carrying things around vs swinging doors.

 

6 - Think a bit more extensively about how to manage heat wrt views vs window size. There are solutions like Sage Glass or verandas if you want both.

 

7 - I think you need to consider carefully integration of indoors and outdoors for doors, windows, walking routes and so on. Especially as it is in a national park.

 

Try drawing a location plan with views, sunrise-sunset and so on, and matching that to your room locations, times of day when you do different activities and so on.

 

8. I would consider windows sites to give you sunlight into the stairwell and the interior - perhaps including a roof window over the top of the stairwell - to give shafts of light in the heart of the house that can be viewed from the entrances and rooms as you walk around.

 

Also some thought about glazing in internal doors and perhaps even walls. I can see a fully glazed door to the snug / lounge working well with a rooflight above the stairwell, for example. Or a tall narrow stained / frosted glass panel from the lounge to the stairs.

 

Also possibilities of using mirrors to reflect light around. A subtly placed floor to ceiling narrow mirror in peripheral can create the impression of an entire extra room, and make the space with the mirror seem much larger, for example.   

 

My thoughts.

Ferdinand

[ETC]

@Iceverge

@hinge and bracket

[ETC]

@Iceverge

@hinge and bracket

[ETC]

@Iceverge

@hinge and bracket

The Emperor’s new clothes.

[Iceverge]

Very nice @ETC. 

 

I'm unfamiliar with the requirements for a Scottish National park but I assume it's along the lines of a HebHomes catalogue.

 

Maybe @hinge and bracket could weigh in with some thoughts? 

 

[Kelvin]

I don’t know of any specific requirements beyond generally 1.5 height and fitting in with the local vernacular especially with materials. Very modern contemporary homes get built in rural Scotland. HebHomes play it safe by building three main house types that are connected to traditional building styles; a longhouse (which is what I’m building), traditional Whitehouse cottage style, and various steadings styles. They also do ‘hut’ style houses called Airigh which are very small houses which I really like and something I might have built in different circumstances. Apparently it’s rare HebHomes buildings don’t achieve planning permission. Our planning decision referenced the very tasteful design that fits into the countryside well.