Should I ask my builders anything about this steel work install?

[ProDave]

I am no expert, but i would be telling the builder to halt work until the SE has been to site so see the steels and either say they are okay, or tell the builder what remedial work needs doing.  Simply tell them they do not appear to be in accordance with the plans so you want it checked. 

[notreadyforthis]

8 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Ok so that was a single beam ! That is seriously heavy to move but they have done it. 
 

The end of the beam you have taken a photo of is wrong though and needs correcting. The engineer needs to see that too. 
 

Also, the beam inside that crosses over the room (Beam A on your plan) doesn’t appear to have the plate on the end as described - there should be a 600mm long steel plate to form a “T” at each end but I can’t see it on the photos, just a concrete block. That will create a point load on the steel and on the masonry. 

 

This is the beam that is installed right up where the joists are. Is that a T or an I shape or neither?

[PeterW]

Yes it’s unsafe. You don’t take half a supporting structure down then go home for tea as it’s late. Each pin (or needle depending on where you’re from)  should be left in place until the mortar has gone off on any brickwork which is usually 72 hours then they are removed. That means you take the lot out, one at a time and it should be done safely. 
 

Not entirely convinced however I would be removing anything until that joint is corrected on the steels tbh as there is a lot of load on the 4 bolts which look the wrong size too. 

[PeterW]

5 minutes ago, notreadyforthis said:

 

This is the beam that is installed right up where the joists are. Is that a T or an I shape or neither?

 

on the end / under the end should be a plate like this - forgive the crap drawing as I’m on the phone..!!

 

 

It is designed to spread the load of that beam along the brickwork 

[notreadyforthis]

7 minutes ago, PeterW said:

on the end / under the end should be a plate like this - forgive the crap drawing as I’m on the phone..!!

 

 

It is designed to spread the load of that beam along the brickwork 

 

Thanks that makes more sense and that ties back to what it says on the plan which refers to a "12mm plate" and the way the notch has been cut for the join to the larger beam.

[notreadyforthis]

20 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I am no expert, but i would be telling the builder to halt work until the SE has been to site so see the steels and either say they are okay, or tell the builder what remedial work needs doing.  Simply tell them they do not appear to be in accordance with the plans so you want it checked. 

 

Thanks, I think that's what I'll suggest. I don't want to blow things up at this point so will just say that I still can't quite line up what's been done with what's in the drawings and would like peace of mind by getting confirmation from the structural engineer.

[Nickfromwales]

16 minutes ago, PeterW said:

there is a lot of load on the 4 bolts which look the wrong size too. 

They don't look like M20 from the pics?

[PeterW]

So the crap notch beam has a 12mm plate on the top of it to hold the two skins of wall that are above. Basically this is to be able to use a narrower (cheaper) structurally strong beam with a thinner profile and then add some more width to the top to take the thicker wall. 

Likewise, when you want to spread load you add plates that go perpendicular which stop what is called point loading on the brickwork which could crush it, especially if it’s not engineering bricks or padstones. 
 

Where in the UK are you out of interest ..?

 

[Jenki]

16 minutes ago, notreadyforthis said:

 Each pin has a second acro on it if it makes any difference or would you still say that's unsafe? I ask not to challenge but to understand so I can go into a conversation with the builder better informed.

 

.An Acro is designed to take the load transmitted vertically through it. The safe working load of an Acro is vastly reduced when correctly using a strongboy,  they are not designed to be angular props.

This is dangerous as it gives a false sense that its safer..

 

 

Also just a point, and its not intended to be picky. The site is untidy, trip hazards everywhere.  Demolition creates mess, but when you are moving and installing steels a clean site is a safer site.  There is no need for rubble to be laying around.

When I've installed beams like this you stop, clean up, remove trip hazards and then once clean, take a view of the next steps and move forward with the plan. If you make mess you tidy it up.

 

When I see sites like this I get concerned about the people working there and the quality of the product.😞

Good Luck, you've been given some great advice so far.👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joe90]

I agree with everything said but fir heavens sake get your SE to site to check it, if it is wrong and it fails, his insurance won’t be covering it and no insurance can cure injuries or death! This is way too serious to make assumptions.

[notreadyforthis]

38 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So the crap notch beam has a 12mm plate on the top of it to hold the two skins of wall that are above. Basically this is to be able to use a narrower (cheaper) structurally strong beam with a thinner profile and then add some more width to the top to take the thicker wall. 

Likewise, when you want to spread load you add plates that go perpendicular which stop what is called point loading on the brickwork which could crush it, especially if it’s not engineering bricks or padstones. 
 

Where in the UK are you out of interest ..?

 

Surrey

[PeterW]

5 minutes ago, notreadyforthis said:

Surrey

Thanks - I would start by emailing the SEng the photos you’ve got and ask their advice as an initial step as they may make suggestions without coming to site. But they should be the first port of call. 

[notreadyforthis]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Thanks - I would start by emailing the SEng the photos you’ve got and ask their advice as an initial step as they may make suggestions without coming to site. But they should be the first port of call. 

Thanks and will be doing this tomorrow. Will post back here what happens once I've gotten to the bottom of this if anyone cares to follow!

[saveasteading]

11 hours ago, notreadyforthis said:

if anyone cares to follow!

You bet.

I have general concerns that there could be any number of errors and omissions, as they are clearly not trying/ cutting corners/ can't read drawings.

Apart from being wrong, the cutting is very rough indeed, and doesn't suggest skilled use of the blowtorch. Were the holes drilled or burned?

[tonyshouse]

I don’t like acrow at an angle 

[Tosh]

When this gets replaced, which I think your SE will tell you to, check with your builder whether the fabricators need to allow the replacement beam to finish top or bottom flush with the beam its connecting to. It looks like you're running a 203 dp beam into a 254 dp beam so detail A is wrong as it shows a 203 to 203 detail and it all looks nice and flush but in reality you won't get that as the beams are different depths.

[Carrerahill]

On 15/03/2022 at 19:35, notreadyforthis said:

Not really knowing much about building works in general, thought it would be worth posting some pics for you all to see in case anything stood out either in a good or a bad way. Attached should be images of the steel work that has been installed in my living space on the first floor. It's great that we've gotten to this stage as we can see how big the opening will be for the sliding doors. On seeing the gap above the steel (now filled in with brick and cement), I did wonder whether the designers could have pushed the steel up further to accommodate a taller opening but too late for that now!

I think it looks rough!

[Carrerahill]

On 15/03/2022 at 21:29, notreadyforthis said:

The beam where there appears to have been a cut is interesting as it didn't get delivered like that.

That beam has been compromised then. Look at your SE drawings and check every detail, if any of it do not match, at all, tell the builder you want him to have a meeting with the SE and that any expenses shall be agreed beforehand between the builder and the SE or you make your own arrangement to withhold some monies at the end of the build to cover the SE visit and any report.

[notreadyforthis]

I asked my building regs supplier to check the steel beam fabrication and install and they referred it to their in-house structural engineer. They’ve come back with a one liner “No adverse comments to make” which I take it to mean they don’t take any issues with what’s been done.

 

My earlier comment which said that the beam has been cut by the builders was incorrect. On closer inspection of photos taken from when the beams were delivered I could just about make out the rough cut for the notch. Also it seems the drawings in the plans were early sketches and not what the fabricator worked from. The fabricator worked from the calculations provided by the structural engineer which comes from a separate document. I’ve since reviewed this document and have been able to match up the beam specifications (size and span at least) to what has been produced.

[Mr Punter]

That is good news.  You really don't want to be messing around with stuff that has already been fitted.