Been sucking my teeth for a good while about this one - bit embarrassed to admit it - but I need to bite the bullet sometime and now's as good as any.

Be gentle with me , I've had an 'interesting' weekend  ..... ?

 

I should have boxed (fire-boarded) this steel in before   the stairs were fitted. Now look what I've gone and done. I need 12.5mm and I have just over 6 between stringer and beam.

 

 

Getting my excuses in first, when you're doing a DIY MAX, and help  (in the form of an ex-Army mate AKA wall of muscle)  arrives  unexpectedly, you grab the chance.  The stairs had been assembled a week or so earlier and everyone  was peed_off walking past  them but having to use the ladder.

 

 The stairs seemed to be whispering fit-me, fit-me, fit me if you can you weakling......

So when my mate walked in he was press-ganged into helping me:  this is the result

 

6mm doesn't divide by 12.5mm all that easily ...   What's that phrase about repenting at leisure?

 

Look on the bright side Ian: the stairs work well.

 

Any bright ideas on how to box the steel in (in 6mm)  so that it conforms to the fire regs?

Or do I have to knock the house down and start again?   (Told you I've had a bad weekend....)

5 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Any bright ideas on how to box the steel in (in 6mm)  so that it conforms to the fire regs?

So that it appears to  conform with regs.  Ponder on that first.

 

Alternatively can you not paint steels with a special paint to make them fireproof?  again what you can't see........

What about fibre cement under cloak strip used on roof verges? No idea if it meets the regs but must be fire proof. Standard is 3mm.

39 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So that it appears to  conform with regs.  ...

 

Gottcha. 

Here's what I'd do... (and I'm not saying this conforms with all the regs, but in my head it should be a good deal similar or better in real world performance to some of the "compliant" installations what have had no care or attention to detail).

 

Cut fireboard strips to fill the web of the RSJ 

Install 6mm cement board (hardibacker or similar) in the gap to the stairs where the stairs are.

12mm Fireboard on the wall below/above that

 

To “err” is human, we all make mistakes (but don’t like to admit it). You have done so well despite the odds at times, don’t beat yourself up mate. Yes, my first thought was cement (asbestos) board or 9mm plasterboard (shaved slightly). “What the eye (BC) don’t see, the heart don’t grieve over ”. Crack on ?

Edited January 31, 20224 yr by joe90

You can get Superlux and Glasroc fire boards in 6mm.

My day is getting better. Thanks you lot. Feeling better by the minute.   

And if  - in addition - Sue Grey kicks Boris' Botty really hard tonight, I'll have a wee dram I think.

 

 

PS

Just had a look at the cost of Suplux and Glasroc fireboard. Suitably expensive. Serves me right. So there.....?

Edited January 31, 20224 yr by ToughButterCup

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

And if  - in addition - Sue Grey kicks Boris' Botty really hard tonight, I'll have a wee dram I think.

She didn’t I’m afraid. I don’t think the report even mentions his name.

Hmmmm, two drams then.......

Just now, Adsibob said:

She didn’t I’m afraid. I don’t think the report even mentions his name.

Back bench MP's and 1922 committee might sort it.  There seemed quite a few who might take that route in the house this afternoon.

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

Back bench MP's and 1922 committee might sort it.  There seemed quite a few who might take that route in the house this afternoon.

Chiltern Hundreds.

 

Chequers is in one of the Hundreds.

if boarding looks to be too expensive keep the plasterboard to a consistent thickness all the way up the column on that face. it would be noticeable if the top and bottom of the string were partialy covered when they weren't meant to be

and by the way 0.48 ? sounds good to me

The steel fails at about 350deg, at which stage the stair is gone, and so are you.

If you can fully protect the exposed sides with plasterboard, and infill the inner web by pushing in rockwool, then only the inner edges of the flanges are exposed, and that may suffice. But squeezing in a skinny board will def then do it.

In reality protecting what you can see will prob be enough to protect the building from collapse.

48 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

and by the way 0.48 ? sounds good to me

 

Yeah, me too - just need to remember to move twice as quick in the event of an evacuation!

You could look at something like this: https://hspfireprotection.co.uk/fire-door-upgrades/1698-envirograf-card-faced-intumescent-material-to-upgrade-doors-to-fire-rated-doors.html

 

7 hours ago, saveasteading said:

The steel fails at about 350deg, at which stage the stair is gone, and so are you.

If you can fully protect the exposed sides with plasterboard, and infill the inner web by pushing in rockwool, then only the inner edges of the flanges are exposed, and that may suffice. But squeezing in a skinny board will def then do it.

In reality protecting what you can see will prob be enough to protect the building from collapse.

Always makes me smile the instance of Pink boarding steel, I recently converted a shop (terrace house) into a big shop (2 terrace houses), the party wall was single skin brick. we took out most of the downstairs party wall leaving 1M at each end, SE made me dig new foundations (1.5M * 1.5M sq) 2 cube of C35 in each with Mesh, then the steel was 305x305 x118 UC, on 2 x 203 x203x60 Columns.  They were massive, bolted together etc.  BI never questioned the bolts, Torque etc, just said make sure you fire line that beam ?.....

 

 

More importantly, if this was a beam between floor joists you would only under board the beam with fireline, the web, ends etc would be unprotected. and acceptable.

My suggestion would be to fire line the underneath of the stairs then under the beam, cant see from the photo the details you posted. is this beam canter levered?

 

That’s a ridiculous spec for a wall removal. 305 deep for the span yes but as there is no lateral load and very little vertical load this is madness, as is the new foundation.

10 hours ago, markc said:

That’s a ridiculous spec for a wall removal. 305 deep for the span yes but as there is no lateral load and very little vertical load this is madness, as is the new foundation.

Total agree, the fist SI was way worse, he wanted a pillar in the middle.   I have to buy bigger spanners / sockets for the bolts. 36MM IIRC. 7.6M Long just shy of 800kg beam about 1100kg with columns

They called it a portal frame, with the intension of stopping the front and back walls pulling away in winds etc.?  although the beam is not connected to either? 

ToughButterCup. As the Fire officer (Saveasteading) said, by the time that steel fails with bugger all protection, You are either in your dressing gown, down the road at a neighbours, having a cup of tea.....Or, you are dead.. Very dead.  Have a couple of fingers of scotch tonight, and be chuffed that you now have stairs.

19 minutes ago, Jenki said:

Total agree, the fist SI was way worse, he wanted a pillar in the middle.   I have to buy bigger spanners / sockets for the bolts. 36MM IIRC. 7.6M Long just shy of 800kg beam about 1100kg with columns

They called it a portal frame, with the intension of stopping the front and back walls pulling away in winds etc.?  although the beam is not connected to either? 

Madness. Madness. They call it Madness.

17 hours ago, Jenki said:

if this was a beam between floor joists you would only under board the beam with fireline, the web, ends etc would be unprotected

Correct, if the ceiling is plasterboard.

 

For information only, the heavier a beam gets, the less protection it needs (heated perimeter/area) to the extent that ultra chunky columns might not need any protection....I have done such.

Quick update:

Promat Supalux 6mm ordered: minimum order 3 sheets, + VAT, + delivery = £456. 

 

Bit of a gulp. Think of England, Harry and St George.

Anyway, thanks @Mr Punter, you dug me out of hole. 

Bump.

The piece of Promat Supalux has been cut to size.

 

Before I fit it, is there an 'outside' and 'inside' to the boarding? One side is distinctly smoother than the other. Rough-side out ?