Mini Stove > Cabin job.

[PeterW]

50 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Now then your amazon roof rubber johnny.. can this be used on my angled roof? I thought the concertina part of it facilitated this.. but more rigid than expected, & isn't actually a concertina I find.

Yep - cut to the rough size then Chuck it into a sink full of hot water and it will soften. Then slide down the chimney section, hold down temporary with a few bricks on the ally flange and when it cools and dries properly just stick it on with some decent adhesive and some short screws and penny washers. 

[zoothorn]

On 22/04/2022 at 16:01, PeterW said:

Yep - cut to the rough size then Chuck it into a sink full of hot water and it will soften. Then slide down the chimney section, hold down temporary with a few bricks on the ally flange and when it cools and dries properly just stick it on with some decent adhesive and some short screws and penny washers. 

Great that's a relief. Good idea with the hot water. This job on hold due to birds as said.

 

I was a bit alarmed at the 6" size of the flue.. site said 125mm diameter, but its 150mm. So quite an eyesore once up. Wish Id gone for black now. I can't see how a 4" twinwall could even be 5" if an inch around of wadding ( I miscalculated thinking 5" max, & site seems to havetoo, but forgot its double this).

 

Anyway fixing this big sod up is gonna be tricky, the 4" wobbles in the stove top, seems about a 4mm gap/ I expected tighter, the problem seems tobe the single wall is a few mm's dismeter shy at the male end.. not the stove hole too big. 
 

All the twinwall stuff fits perfectly together as expected. Top of single into adaptor though.. is another wobble/ gap. Hmm.

 

Thanks for the help. Zoot.
 

 

 

[ProDave]

26 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Anyway fixing this big sod up is gonna be tricky, the 4" wobbles in the stove top, seems about a 4mm gap/ I expected tighter, the problem seems tobe the single wall is a few mm's dismeter shy at the male end.. not the stove hole too big. 

You seal the gap around the pipe in the top of the stove with a small tin of fire cement.

[PeterW]

@zoothorn as @ProDave said, you need fire cement so get a tube of this as it makes it much easier to fit with it 

 

Arctic Hayes 665207 Vitcas Fire Cement 310 ml, Black https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08DLNW8RP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_KQ52VQAZE77RGB0NNHVV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

[saveasteading]

One more thing on the rubber boot. They are made in various sizes, and  each has a range of diameters, and you cut the sleeve to suit. Getting the smallest one that just fits will only work on a flat roof. For a steep (any tiled) roof it needs a lot of flexibility so get the biggest that accepts your diameter.

[zoothorn]

17 hours ago, saveasteading said:

One more thing on the rubber boot. They are made in various sizes, and  each has a range of diameters, and you cut the sleeve to suit. Getting the smallest one that just fits will only work on a flat roof. For a steep (any tiled) roof it needs a lot of flexibility so get the biggest that accepts your diameter.

Hi SAS, thanks/ understood, the roof johnny already here in fact tho.. & 95-195 it is, & mine is 150mm. Midway then'ish Hmm. I might have to wrestle with it then..

 

Zoot

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

18 hours ago, PeterW said:

@zoothorn as @ProDave said, you need fire cement so get a tube of this as it makes it much easier to fit with it 

 

Arctic Hayes 665207 Vitcas Fire Cement 310 ml, Black https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08DLNW8RP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_KQ52VQAZE77RGB0NNHVV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

Hi Peter- thanks for link, actually have some tub cement here I just remember.. thing is the stove maker did a clip showing inserting a single 4" albeit with a wee bit of cement, but seemed a tighter fit maybe just 2mm (?) gap. Mine 4mm. 
 

Anyway can cross this bridge as of when. Maybe a month.

 

I think I'll need to brace the twin just above the adaptor, to the inside walls, maybe a loop of metal around/ a leg to each wall & fix (?). Because a full 600mm will exit roof. Wind against it = any slight rocking will compromise the two cement joins: top join @ single-to-adaptor less critical, as weight down should provide the main seal aspect (? my conjecture tho) even with cement here.. but join @ stove-to-single pipe: if this rocks even a mite, the cement brittle etc. And the 4mm gap possibly exposed is what I mean. The male to female  join design " downwards facing" then would let smoke up this gap. So I'd have thought mitigating against the flue rocking is imperative-?
 

Thanks, Zoot

 

 

 

[ProDave]

23 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I think I'll need to brace the twin just above the adaptor, to the inside walls, maybe a loop of metal around/ a leg to each wall & fix (?)

You can buy support brackets to fix into a corner like you have,  A bit like these 

 

Obviously choose the length and diameter to suit your pipe.

 

I would fit one as high up as possible to the roof on the twin wall, and one lower down, right at the single to double adaptor.

[PeterW]

23 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Hi Peter- thanks for link, actually have some tub cement here I just remember.. thing is the stove maker did a clip showing inserting a single 4" albeit with a wee bit of cement, but seemed a tighter fit maybe just 2mm (?) gap. Mine 4mm. 
 

Anyway can cross this bridge as of when. Maybe a month.

 

I think I'll need to brace the twin just above the adaptor, to the inside walls, maybe a loop of metal around/ a leg to each wall & fix (?). Because a full 600mm will exit roof. Wind against it = any slight rocking will compromise the two cement joins: top join @ single-to-adaptor less critical, as weight down should provide the main seal aspect (? my conjecture tho) even with cement here.. but join @ stove-to-single pipe: if this rocks even a mite, the cement brittle etc. And the 4mm gap possibly exposed is what I mean. The male to female  join design " downwards facing" then would let smoke up this gap. So I'd have thought mitigating against the flue rocking is imperative-?
 

Thanks, Zoot

 

 

 

No bracing needed - that silicone topper plus  the cement will hold it rigid as it isn’t long enough to move in the wind. If you need to brace it for peace of mind then use the proper brace for the twin wall. 

[zoothorn]

@ProDave cold enough, my brilliance determined yesterday in a eureka moment.. to chill my guinness cans. I am thinking basket lowering up/ down, like the silly little dog in Rear Window.

 

What about the idea of a wind turbine? On the roof maybe? I was thinking Old Father Time weathervane.. then this ( serious) idea sprung to mind. Great through-windy channeled spot here (hoping good updraft for my flue).

 

Anyone got one on BHub I wonder?

 

Thanks zoot.

[PeterW]

15 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

What about the idea of a wind turbine? On the roof maybe?

 noise will drive you nuts as the small ones vibrate a lot and the cabin will amplify it 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

 noise will drive you nuts as the small ones vibrate a lot and the cabin will amplify it 

Ah. Right that's a shame.
 

So: the water turbine idea.. I trust your judgment as you know Peter, is this a proper feasable idea (I'd imagine a very light capacity needed/ a light & an ipad battery block if there's such a thing).. or more of a fun 'project' with a 50/50 chance?

 

Not sure if you're able to give an opinion. Thx if so, zoot.

[SteamyTea]

If you get 10 m³/hour (divide by 3,600 to get flow in seconds) of flow and the head is 1 metre, then you have a maximum of very little.

Edited April 25, 2022 by SteamyTea

[zoothorn]

@SteamyTea Hi ST. Thanks for this chart info. I'm yet to dive in to the replies on the turbine idea, but will do over wknd to see how feasable an idea it is.

 

In meantime I think ProDave mentioned the size of the roof rubber thingy, & my flue relative to it. Im not sure if Ive got too small a roof johnny..

 

Small white tape mark @ the 6" diameter of my twinwall flue, on the rubber.
 

Bird nest seems vacant- not sure if cat got the chicks, or fledged. So can think of doing job now.

 

Thanks, Zoot
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by zoothorn

[saveasteading]

On 24/04/2022 at 11:30, zoothorn said:

single wall is a few mm's diameter shy at the male end.

The stove mastic I have used is very brittle so poss no good to close this gap (ie it might fail in a short time and that would be  a big problem..

I suggest you try to fill he gap with the fibreglass string that is used to seal the glass into the door. It is a consumable as it needs replacing after a few years , so should be easy to find. Plus some stove mastic.

[zoothorn]

19 hours ago, saveasteading said:

The stove mastic I have used is very brittle so poss no good to close this gap (ie it might fail in a short time and that would be  a big problem..

I suggest you try to fill he gap with the fibreglass string that is used to seal the glass into the door. It is a consumable as it needs replacing after a few years , so should be easy to find. Plus some stove mastic.

Hi SAS,

 

fiberglass string? How could this be heatproof though? I'm just about to start this job, but this bit, & also how I make a ceiling/ roof hole the right shape ( being a shallow pitch, so won't be a circle.. more an oval I guess). Then also whether my rubber collar is sufficiently large following your (or ProDave's) info about it needing, ideally, to be fairly bigger than my flue diameter ( which Im not at all sure it is.. IE in order to have the hot water treatment, then positioning over, & making a good join to this -plus- having the angle moulded into it too)..

 

And Im just not ready to go ahead presently. I can't do this unless Im 100% sure I can make a good weatherproof situation, primarily. One person too.. it's not an easy prospect this job.

 

Thanks, Zoot.

Edited April 29, 2022 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

@PeterW Peter could you help.

 

I'm not sure if my rubber roof collar, is suitable. ProDave or someone says to get the biggest one, perhaps. So I don't know if mine is suitable, for use with my 6" flue ( far wider than I had anticipated).

 

I know you linked me to the one I bought, but perhaps you just forgot to factor in the slant of my roof ( totally understandable, & my fault as the smallprint says "for flat roofs" I read -after- buying it).

 

You have given me the idea of hot water, which I can roughly understand makes it more malleable. But. Do I have a wide enough ammount of rubber? Is my flue too wide for it to sdd this slant? I just cannot answer this Q. All I can do is add a photo, of a section of my flue, resting ontop of the collar.

 

I added a small white tape mark, on the rubber, to show where my 6" diameter coincides down. It is roughly midway along the concertina rubber. Is this too close to the outside of it, to form this slant idea with it?

 

Thanks, zoot.

[PeterW]

So .. how to cut your oval …. 
 

6” flue will need about 8” hole with an allowance for heat so you then need to add about an inch to the circle to make it oval given the slope. So quickest way is to draw an 8” circle, cut through the middle and stick a piece in the middle that’s got another 1” in it. That will give you an oval that is 8” wide and 9” long. Mark the centre both ways and then go inside. 

 

Now use a plumb line to find the centre of the stove outlet. Once you have that, drill a hole through at that point and back on the roof, find the hole and lay the oval of paper on the roof. Trace round the oval and cut out with a jigsaw. 
 

Slice the top out of the grey condom on your white line, then align with the centre of the hole you’ve made and mark round the aluminium bit. Now cut the felt 1” inside the line, leaving the lower edge uncut. 
 

Slide the ally up under the edges of the felt until it’s in place … check for plumb again and build the chimney up dry. Soak the condom in hot water for 5 mins then slide over, replacing it under the felt. 
 

Check it’s all plumb, pull the ally flange out (leave it on the flue section ..!!) and a good gloop of black gutter  sealant under the edges and then put the felt back with some more sealant.  
 

now plumb the flue again, and when you’re happy put a small screw and washer through each corner of the felt, through the ally flange and into the timber. 
 

Finally, quick wipe round the edges to remove any stray sealant and that’s the roof done. Now put your fire cement into the joint (quick tip, wrap the flue just above the outlet and stove outlet with masking tape to stop the cement getting on it.) smooth down with a damp sponge and crack open a beer …
 

 

[PeterW]

18 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

But. Do I have a wide enough ammount of rubber? Is my flue too wide for it to sdd this slant?

It’s fine… read the above and carry on 

[saveasteading]

If you look at the inside of your stove glass you will prob see a string gasket making the seal to the metal. It obviously has to be fireproof. That is the material I meant.

It was just a thought, and presumably you have another solution if proceeding. Good luck, it isn't easy but the above advice is good.

The cone might not have enough flexibility but we must hope.

[Onoff]

10 hours ago, zoothorn said:

fiberglass string? How could this be heatproof though?

 

It just is. It's not "fibreglass" like an old Robin Reliant that would burn like a torch. That had the glass fibre matting bonded together with highly flammable resins. Fibreglass fire rope is spun and weaved glass fibres. Think how a pane of glass won't catch fire, it's primarily the same stuff i.e high silicon based. It won't catch fire per se but periodically goes brittle and needs replacing.

 

Have a read here under See full description of the "how to":

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224525996010

[zoothorn]

On 30/04/2022 at 00:45, saveasteading said:

If you look at the inside of your stove glass you will prob see a string gasket making the seal to the metal. It obviously has to be fireproof. That is the material I meant.

It was just a thought, and presumably you have another solution if proceeding. Good luck, it isn't easy but the above advice is good.

The cone might not have enough flexibility but we must hope.

Hi ProDave. Ok now I see what you mean, stove rope. But this is invariably 8-10mm or so. My gap is an annoying 4mm.

 

Anyway I can trawl for something along these lines maybe to wrap around.. tho I can really only think a shim is needed, to widen the male single flue end ( Im not sure the cause is due to an incorrectly small flue end, or, an overtly big stove top hole).  
 

Im not even sure the 4mm gap is OTT either. This results in a 2mm gap circumference when its seated, just to clarify.

I'd think the more super-stable the twinwall section above it is, the less I need to be concerned this join will crack.

 

Anyway thanks. Zoot

[zoothorn]

On 30/04/2022 at 07:50, Onoff said:

 

It just is. It's not "fibreglass" like an old Robin Reliant that would burn like a torch. That had the glass fibre matting bonded together with highly flammable resins. Fibreglass fire rope is spun and weaved glass fibres. Think how a pane of glass won't catch fire, it's primarily the same stuff i.e high silicon based. It won't catch fire per se but periodically goes brittle and needs replacing.

 

Have a read here under See full description of the "how to":

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224525996010

That's useful. I didn't know rope went smaller than 8mm. Ok I can trawl away to try find some 3mm stuff.

 

The only concern I have is my sittingroom stove ash pan door rope only a year new, has become hard, brittle & split.

 

Maybe I can do a dry run with my cement to see if it could suffice for my 4mm gap. Its the wind movement of the 6" wide & high extended-above-roof 600mm flue Im concerned about.

 

Zoot

[zoothorn]

On 29/04/2022 at 22:14, PeterW said:

It’s fine… read the above and carry on 

Hi Peter. Very grateful for your prior post: gives me confidence to do this. Which I had planned to do today.. but rain/ dammit first in ages. So end of week maybe. I'm going through your post today. My plumb mark... done, so a tentative step made.

 

A few things I need clarity on first though: bracing of the outside 600mm+ twinwall (?). I'm concerned any slight movement of it, will compromise my single-wall ends' joins below. I'll need to fire-cement both, inside the cabin, as the pipe design & my stove maker shows in his vid clip, even with maybe an added shim (rope, tape even? not yet decided on) beforehand, using some fire cement as a final 'seal' pressed in well etc. 

 

The lower join @ my stove top is less of a concern, as I can monitor/ see this. So if cement cracked I can repair asap.
 

But the top join @ the adaptor... I can't see; & should the twin section move a fraction ( strong wind, surely, will do exactly this) & the cement cracks this join surely will be compromised, & me unaware of it. 
 

Which is why I was asking about bracing of the twin. Inside? outside? Both, or not at all needed? Maybe you could mull for me.

 

Appreciated, zoot.

[PeterW]

Top of the stove pipe into the twin wall should be a tight fit with no sealant needed. Got a photo ..? 
 

Once twin wall is tightened up with the bands it is rock solid.