Onoff

Solar Thermal From Scrap...AGAIN!

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So.....the house runs north south. On a day like today, warm in the Sun  & cold in the shade, the deeper you go into the house away from the (badly installed), ancient, south 'ish facing sliding doors the colder it gets! There is a patch of warmed, sun drenched, threadbare carpet just inside over which we fight for the one warm spot!

 

20170419_155937

 

I'd like to get rid of the Winter Jasmine on the right and the rose on the left and build a "pop can" wall on each.

 

Of course there's some thick as a brick Thrush nesting in the bush but at least that's at cat height so it won't be for long! I think the roots have penetrated through the wall too. Youngest said she saw a rat there the other day.

 

The rose was given to madam by a long dead neighbour/distant relative/her Mum so that has sentimental value apparently! :(

 

SWMBO has dreams of replacing the sliding doors with wider bi-folds in the future. 

 

On then the "build in and they shall come" basis I'm going to have a go at a can wall.

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1 hour ago, Onoff said:

On then the "build in and they shall come" basis I'm going to have a go at a can wall.

 

So not on the "sod it, the bathroom thread is only a million pages long so what's another delay" basis then? :D

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So we have a couple of salvaged 145x45mm for the two sides + 3 huge sheets of ali from an old caravan side.

 

2017-04-19_10-18-33

Then plenty of old greenhouse glass which will I guess drive the width (again).

 

20170419_174626

 

Beer can's nom 65 dia. Rough thoughts are a backing board, 50mm Rockwool, ali sheet, cans then glass all in the 145mm depth.

 

20170419_174532

 

 

Edited by Onoff
Pic added etc

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11 hours ago, jack said:

 

So not on the "sod it, the bathroom thread is only a million pages long so what's another delay" basis then? :D

 

More of a "build it, show her the benefits of sustainable energy etc in the hope she might stop living in the past & come on board for the big decisions like EWI, new plumbing and a new roof needed to fix the place" :)

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Get the bloody bathroom finished and she will probably agree to anything. 

Upstairs for thinking,downstairs for dancing. 

Happy wife happy life. 

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13 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Get the bloody bathroom finished and she will probably agree to anything. 

[...] 

 

Sure? I bet @Onoff has a spare secret bathroom somewhere. I mean, he must have hasn't he?

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5 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

Sure? I bet @Onoff has a spare secret bathroom somewhere. I mean, he must have hasn't he?

 

Either that or his wife is a real life Angel!!! I bet he has no idea he's got it so good ;) 

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If you have a new bathroom, do you come out cleaner and sweeter, same with kitchens, does the food taste better, or have more or less calories.

Heating a house is a totally different thing, cold, damp houses can kill, a warm cosy one tends not to.

What is wrong with a tub in the livingroom.:D

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She's got the upstairs en suite so nothing to complain about imo! :)

 

AND the new bath downstairs WORKS!

 

Seems very unreasonable just 'cos there's no wc, basin, heating, lighting, shower or tiles....

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In all seriousness this thread will probably go down the route of home brew  (pop can based) solar water heating with panels mounted in a line on that South 'ish facing roof. This to simply pre heat a cylinder before the existing hot water cylinder.

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Just need to look at how much sun the new shed roof will get through the day ?. Already thinking of a giant ( 1500-2000L ) DIY TS to go before the combi for DHW preheat / uplift, heated by my chimnea, but I had also thought of reclaimed panel radiators paints black for DIY ST too, just the weight had put me off as I'd have to beef the shed up to take it. Beer can collector should be a lot lighter ?

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Rads are indeed heavier and take longer to heat up due to the volume of water. But quicker to build of course as the bulk of the "panel" is pre done.

 

There's a good vid somewhere where someone's done a side by side comparison of a can one like my original one against a serpentine tube design sandwiched between two ali sheets. The sandwich one has the edge by a few degrees.

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Just some musings on the can air heater type:

 

can_001

 

How to connect the short panes of glass together at the join, silicon seems the obvious.....glazing tape?

 

Insulate the sides or not?

 

The insulation, would scrap EPS, PIR "melt"?

 

Taper at the top or not to "concentrate" the heat?

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I've sort of come to the conclusion, for my purpose, is simply a load of black hose coiled around the roof of the shed, perhaps a thin metal sheet on the shed roof first, then hose, then perspex, would it be a benefit (or negative) to have the perspex black.?

A lot of my thinking is based on weight.

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6 hours ago, Steptoe said:

I've sort of come to the conclusion, for my purpose, is simply a load of black hose coiled around the roof of the shed, perhaps a thin metal sheet on the shed roof first, then hose, then perspex, would it be a benefit (or negative) to have the perspex black.?

A lot of my thinking is based on weight.

 

Assunme you want to heat water?

 

The lightest design I reckon is one with NO pipes, cans in etc! The guys here are playing with what they're calling the Zero Pass Collector. The idea is that you avoid the absorber element being near the glass over the bulk of the panel area thus avoiding losses.

 

http://simplysolar.supporttopics.com/post/the-zero-pass-hot-air-collector-6611426?pid=1280456999

 

BUT stop and think! Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole? :)

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After a bit of an internet trawl the "American" method of choice seems pretty labour saving by basing everything on an 8'x4' panel:

 

- sheet of 8'x4' backing board (no cutting).

- batten and screw on say 6"x1" sides

- drop in a full sheet of PIR or "polyiso" as they call it. Again no cutting.

 

Et voila, one box ready for adding your pipes or soda cans of choice & glazing. Guessing out there you might get 8'x4' twin wall glazing sheets? Again, just drop into the box supported by battens.

 

Can't get my head around how/if PIR is good at the high generated temperatures.

Edited by Onoff

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59 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Can't get my head around how/if PIR is good at the high generated temperatures.

It does start to distort at high temperatures, but probably not a serious problem for this kind of low efficiency design.

 

You need a 'clear as can be' path to the collectors as you are trying to absorb all frequencies (energy is related to frequency, see the ultra-violet catastrophe).  Paint the collector matt black.

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10 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

It does start to distort at high temperatures, but probably not a serious problem for this kind of low efficiency design.

 

You need a 'clear as can be' path to the collectors as you are trying to absorb all frequencies (energy is related to frequency, see the ultra-violet catastrophe).  Paint the collector matt black.

 

The Yanks do seem to go for BFO panels though as they have lots of space. What they lack in efficiency they make up for in size!

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So.....feeling sorry for myself with man flu and the mind started to wander.....

 

How would I recreate this tile profile in 1mm aluminium sheet?

 

2017-04-22_04-03-33

 

Make a roller, a wooden crimping tool or a former to beat the sheet into/over made from some shaped sections of ply?

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Make a male and female mould from a resin and stamp them out with a press (hydraulic bottle jack).

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5 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Crikey. Great resource :)

Need a day off to digest that lot though.  :/

 

The link in my last post before yours is amazing. Damn great collector heating water in Pex.  Conveys back to the house in ducting in an (8" deep) trench to a home made TS tank.

 

Trying to get my head around these Zero Pass Collectors they all seem to be raving about for space heating. No pipes or cans just spaced mesh / gauze!

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Make me a half dozen 8x4' prototypes and I'll arrange to collect them and be your guineu pig. ;). The least I can do for a mate :ph34r:

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