Libel/defamatory comments on planning application

[Omnibuswoman]

Has anyone any experience of having had defamatory comments about them (made on their planning application public comments section) removed by the Council?

I reviewed our simple S73 application last night, and found 8 new comments made by members of the public, many of which contained wholly untrue malicious gossip about us. I am astonished that the council did not do a better job of vetting what was published.

 

Has anyone else had personal comments made when commenting on planning applications? How did you handle them?

Thanks

 

[Mr Punter]

Yes they should remove them immediately.  They inadvertently published some personal details on an application we made but removed them swiftly when this was pointed out.

[joe90]

Nothing defamatory but definitely untrue, I would get the council on it pronto, nothing worse than gossip to start a rumour. I countered our neighbour (and actually named him and her) on the planning website to give evidence of their claim as I had documented evidence to the contrary. Mind even our planners made statements that were not true which is probably another reason we won hands down at appeal ?

[saveasteading]

I have found some objectors to be shocked to find that their names are published and it was clear they would not have said the same thing publicly.

Yes tell the council and they will remove them.

[joe90]

13 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I have found some objectors to be shocked to find that their names are published

Yes our neighbours were furious that I named them (but the council did nothing ?)

[Faz]

Grab a cricket bat and pop round to sort the f*ckers out  for a chat - old skool style!

[Pocster]

Yeah loads . Abuse , lies . Criminal damage etc . Welcome to the world of fu*kwit neighbours when you submit planning applications.

Don’t worry about it - (expletive deleted) ‘em 

 

I find telling them to get (expletive deleted)ed to their face a good way to deal with it ( I feel better anyway )

Edited December 4, 2021 by pocster

[Faz]

You & me - route 1 bud!  F*ck 'em.

[Johnnyt]

An objector had the suggested the motivation for our application was pecuniary gain and we were using my wife's disability to further our cause rather building the dwelling for her particular needs.

I strongly objected to the council and asked them to remove the offending and discriminatory comments which they ignored until my appeal was presented.

Needless to say, I used the LPA's inaction to demonstrate their unreasonable behaviour to the planning inspector in our cost application, which no doubt help paint the picture of the journey we had with the counsel.

It is referenced in our costs award decision, see attached, paras 6 and 12

 

PPG guidance states:

 

Paragraph: 033 Reference ID: 16-033-20140306
“Can costs be claimed for the period during the determination of the
planning application?

No, but all parties are expected to behave reasonably throughout the planning process.
Although costs can only be awarded in relation to unnecessary or wasted expense at
the appeal or other proceeding, behaviour and actions at the time of the planning
application can be taken into account in the Inspector’s consideration of whether or
not costs should be awarded…”

 

 

Costs Decision - 3198387[100338].pdf

[Faz]

Well done you mate - that cost award was particularly ouchy for the LA.

 

Rare that you get costs from these twats.

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, pocster said:

Yeah loads . Abuse , lies . Criminal damage etc . Welcome to the world of fu*kwit neighbours when you submit planning applications.

Don’t worry about it - (expletive deleted) ‘em 

 

I find telling them to get (expletive deleted)ed to their face a good way to deal with it ( I feel better anyway )

 

Lots of places to hide bodies round my way... ?

[Adsibob]

@Omnibuswoman sorry to hear you are going through this, sounds awful. If it really is libellous, you should sue both the council and the neighbour in question. Libel is quite a technical area, so worth running it by a specialist. Carter Ruck is a law firm that is well known in this area. They might give you an initial consultation over the phone for free.

[Temp]

If you notify the planners in writing (recorded delivery copy the legal department) and they continue to publish the libel I suspect that makes the planners liable for damages for negligence.

[SteamyTea]

That is the Cornish for you.  They say what they like about up country folk.

 

3 hours ago, Temp said:

they continue to publish the libel I suspect that makes the planners liable for damages for negligence.

They can probably hide behind the mask of not being a publisher, done the social media sites grand for a decade or more.

 

[AliG]

I had a look at the planning application and comments.

 

The comments are typical gossip/tittle tattle that you see on planning applications. I would just ignore them as they are irrelevant and the planners won't care. We had some preposterous things said about our application and our intentions. I can see why you are upset, but libel issues are pointless to pursue.

 

I am surprised that this is a S73 application. I can see that it doesn't impact neighbours in any material way, but it is quite a substantial change. In particular balconies are extremely contentious from a planning perspective, even though no one actually seems to use them! I would be prepared to be asked for a new full planning application. In our case we had to withdraw and reapply both our house and my parents' house. Each time the second application garnered way more objections as it gives people time to get wound up and get organised.

 

Either way, I don't see any actual planning issues. You aren't overlooking people etc and most complaints seem to be re traffic, access and so on. All planning applications seem to get these and they are generally not relevant. You just have to suffer through what is a very stressful process.

 

[Omnibuswoman]

2 hours ago, AliG said:

I had a look at the planning application and comments.

 

The comments are typical gossip/tittle tattle that you see on planning applications. I would just ignore them as they are irrelevant and the planners won't care. We had some preposterous things said about our application and our intentions. I can see why you are upset, but libel issues are pointless to pursue.

 

I am surprised that this is a S73 application. I can see that it doesn't impact neighbours in any material way, but it is quite a substantial change. In particular balconies are extremely contentious from a planning perspective, even though no one actually seems to use them! I would be prepared to be asked for a new full planning application. In our case we had to withdraw and reapply both our house and my parents' house. Each time the second application garnered way more objections as it gives people time to get wound up and get organised.

 

Either way, I don't see any actual planning issues. You aren't overlooking people etc and most complaints seem to be re traffic, access and so on. All planning applications seem to get these and they are generally not relevant. You just have to suffer through what is a very stressful process.

 

 

Thanks @AliG. You are absolutely right that these represent malicious gossip, and likely stemming from one particular individual with whom we have already had some problems, whose purpose in life seems to be sh*t stirring in general. And I agree with you that there are no meaningful planning issues here - we don't overlook anybody, and issues about traffic are irrelevant to the changes we have applied to make. I met the planning officer when he visited the site and he seemed immensely sensible, so I've no concerns that he will turn down the application - even the balcony isn't especially contentious as the house in front of us, the fancy one, has a balcony (as there are lovely views to enjoy). 

 

However, in a small village, and without being there to counter these allegations (especially the one about the elderly neighbour and the hedge), I'm concerned that the well will be poisoned in advance of our moving there and it will be difficult to build relationships in the local community. I grew up in a village, and I know how powerful local gossip can be (hence moving to a major city as soon as I left school - ahh the anonymity was glorious!!). Despite what was said on one of the comments, it is actually going to be our forever home and we want to feel welcome there.

 

The origins of this started during lockdown when we couldn't be there for months and months. In our absence we had several quite nasty emails from people who had somehow obtained my email address (probably from the unpleasant neighbour), making allegations about us that were clearly local gossip. We were really upset, and when we were able to return after lockdown lifted we felt very uncomfortable there for quite a while. That eased off eventually as we were back a lot over this summer building the workshop, but these planning comments repeat some of those allegations and add a few extra ones. It is really difficult not to imagine this becoming a more malicious gossip again unless we nip it in the bud by sending some legal letters threatening those involved with libel, and asking them to retract their defamatory comments.

 

Ultimately, people will say what they want to - we are not naive about that. But leaving this sort of thing unchallenged feels wrong, and if nothing else our threats will give them something to gossip about. I'm not for a minute thinking that any of this will end up being heard in court - the idea is to send strongly worded letters asking for the comments to be retracted, and for a statement of apology to be made public instead. 

 

I've already emailed the planning officer to point out the council's duty not to publish defamatory comments, so hopefully that will result in some of them being removed early next week. Watch this space...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Omnibuswoman]

5 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

That is the Cornish for you.  They say what they like about up country folk.

 

They can probably hide behind the mask of not being a publisher, done the social media sites grand for a decade or more.

 

 

You're not wrong about negative feelings towards 'up country' people. It's peculiarly strong in the Cornish it seems...

 

The principle in law is that the council would be liable because they are the publisher of the defamatory comments - the comments are reviewed by the council before being added to the application page. The law concerning social media sites is a little bit different because people effectively self-publish, and the social media company can only react after the fact. Internet providers have also been sued for hosting libellous comments, but without success to date.

[SteamyTea]

10 minutes ago, Omnibuswoman said:

You're not wrong about negative feelings towards 'up country' people.

I have seen many people move into the village I work in, only to be driven out again by the locals.

So of the up country people deserve it, had one move in last year 'because immigrants had ruined the village they lived in'.  I warned them with that attitude they would be driven out within 6 months, they were.

The is no easy way to be accepted down my end of the county, some people are accepted, others are not, no rhyme or reason, just a small town mentality.

If you aren't, and you will know within 12 months of moving in proper, you then have hard choices to make.

Legal letters will get binned in my opinion.

 

And we are as noisy as (expletive deleted), and what to know how much everything costs.

Edited December 5, 2021 by SteamyTea

[Kelvin]

That all sounds like a nightmare so much so it would put me off moving there. 
 

Our plot has one immediate  neighbour. They aren’t happy about another house being built which I understand completely. Plus the farmer selling the land upset her when the borehole was being drilled as it covered her house in red sand. I’ve done a good job in winning her round hopefully but I can see we’ll need to walk a fine line. We do want to get on with her though so intend being as accommodating as is practicable. 

[Jilly]

It might sound bonkers but meditation and visualisation might help you. It works for me because I try to be non combative and reflect negative energy back. Calmly get your head into a relaxed space then minimise the nasty things, shrink them right down so they are tiny, then send them far away in your mind. It helps to stop things becoming intrusive thoughts, out of real proportion.  

 

Conversely, for something you want, meditate then visualise it going well, large and  colourful with everybody happy and just as you would like it to. Even if some people might think it's naive, and the outcome isn't exactly what you want, you will have a pleasanter journey. As you point out, some of these people will be your new neighbours, so it might help to find a way to send them the love....

 

A gentle way of telling them you won't be a Cornish Patsy, if you will ?

Edited December 5, 2021 by Jilly

[Omnibuswoman]

28 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

 

The is no easy way to be accepted down my end of the county, some people are accepted, others are not, no rhyme or reason, just a small town mentality.

 

 

I've seen on the local facebook community pages people having pissing contests about how 'local' they are, and how many generations back they can trace their roots etc. Honestly, it is farcical. When our particularly hateful neighbour first met us, she turned to my mum and asked 'and where are you from?'. My mum's reply, naming a Devon hamlet three miles away, won the response 'Oh!' and a disappointed face. I think the neighbour had wanted to have a go about 'foreigners' which is the local term for anyone not born in the county. Sigh!

 

The profound irony of the unpleasant gossip is that the elderly gentleman we have been accused of mistreating had actually telephoned me to agree our boundary hedge proposal, and in that conversation offered me the benefit of his wisdom about how to settle into a village like this when moving from elsewhere, as he had a couple of decades ago. 

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, Omnibuswoman said:

she turned to my mum and asked 'and where are you from?'. My mum's reply, naming a Devon hamlet three miles away, won the response 'Oh!' and a disappointed face. I think the neighbour had wanted to have a go about 'foreigners' which is the local term for anyone not born in the county. Sigh!

Ah.

Now we really know what the problem is.

Should have kept quiet and not replied, but that is something people from Devon just can't do.

Or find a similar sounding village in Cornwall and claim the neighbour misheard. Actually any village will do, we don't pronounce the letters that are put in words.

Edited December 5, 2021 by SteamyTea

[SteamyTea]

16 minutes ago, Jilly said:

reflect negative energy back

Not with physics you won't.

[joe90]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Not with physics you won't.

Or with Cornish people ? I think my saving grace is we built on a plot that belonged to my wife’s father but I am still seen as an Emmitt (local vernacular fir foreigner).

Edited December 5, 2021 by joe90

[Omnibuswoman]

2 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Or with Cornish people ?

 

Spoken like a true foreigner ??