Airless paint spraying advice

[bassanclan]

I'm looking into this as I've got around 250sqm external render and probably twice that internal to decorate, but I am unsure about whether it is worth buying one, as hiring seems expensive.

I would be interested to hear how it goes next week @JSHarris

[PeterW]

Best tip I was given was to use "cheaper" emulsion as it had less latex in it (or whatever makes it sticky ..!) and to ensure you use a fine sieve to fill the pot as it's the tiny lumps that cause the blockages. 

 

I am thinking that buying a second hand one may be useful for vaulted ceilings along with a supply of Tyvek suits ..!

[Jeremy Harris]

Good news about it being better with cheap emulsion, as I've just bought loads of cheap trade white, as it's only a garage!

 

I can't quite understand why the hire price is so high, as a reasonably good unit can be bought new for around £300.  It may be because they have to factor in the cost of nozzles and servicing the pump.  The pump not only needs cleaning out, but also needs lubricating every time it's used, with a special (and expensive) lubricant.  Nozzles are reported to last for somewhere between 100 to 400 litres of paint, depending on the type of paint (exterior stuff apparently wears the nozzle faster then something like emulsion).  The lubricant is around £15 to £20 for a small bottle, nozzles are around £6 each, and the hire people may just replace nozzles before each hire, so with the labour cost of servicing between hires I can see that it could cost them £20 to £30 or so, perhaps more.

 

I'll give some feedback on how I get on with this unit, probably later next week (if I get the garage cleared out so I can paint it.........).

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

Thanks for all the positive comments, I shall probably have a go at painting the garage next week.  Getting used to using the thing in the garage seems a good idea, as I'm not really fussed about the finish, I just want to brighten it up with a couple of coats of white emulsion.

If you have an old sheet of ply or plasterboard do some test passes to get the distance correct and fan spread. 

Do you have different length tubes ? Mine came with a long and short to save having to use a hop up, could reach a 2.4 ceiling from the floor. 

[Jeremy Harris]

The garage walls are OSB, so I can use those for practice, perhaps starting on a bit that will be hidden by racking.  Mine hasn't got an extension, but I've been looking at them this morning, as they don't seem to be expensive.

[MikeSharp01]

31 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

I'll give some feedback on how I get on with this unit, probably later next week (if I get the garage cleared out so I can paint it.........).

Not using the Mr Bean exploding paint can concept then Jeremy

[Nickfromwales]

15 hours ago, Alexphd1 said:

I can't help on the operation side of things but will be very interested on your progress with the machine as I am eyeing up a graco 390 airless sprayer myself. What model is it?

How much if you don't mind me asking? 

[Jeremy Harris]

I had a look at the prices of the Graco and that model seems to sell for around £700 to £800.  FWIW, I paid around a tenth of that for the second hand (but only used once, as far as I can tell) Spraytech, which is an entry-level model similar in capacity.

 

There seems to be a massive variation in price between the same machine from different suppliers.  I wasn't looking to buy one of these when I was offered the one I've just bought, it was an impulse buy.  Since then I've had a look around and found many identical machines sold under different names, so I'm guessing that a lot of them are made in the far East and just badged for different markets.

[Steptoe]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

Best tip I was given was to use "cheaper" emulsion as it had less latex in it (or whatever makes it sticky ..!) and to ensure you use a fine sieve to fill the pot as it's the tiny lumps that cause the blockages. 

 

I am thinking that buying a second hand one may be useful for vaulted ceilings along with a supply of Tyvek suits ..!

 

no matter what sort of spray gun you use you should always 'sieve' the paint,

you can get special filter paper for it, or, at a push, use a coffee filter

[Alexphd1]

The best UK online price was just over £1000, $800 online in usa. I am waiting for a price for local graco agent. Second hand value seem (ebay) to be between 350-500 but I don't think I would pay that type of money in case machine has been bad used. At jsHarris price then it's a no brainer worth a go even if you need to replace some parts. Painting forums both sides of the pond seem to place the 390 as the professional entry level for residential painting in the graco range anything less like the graco magnum etc a waste of time.  Will have a look at the spraytech but titan airlessco where all spoken of highly on painting forums.  

 

Lot of variation on opinons for backrolling from back rolling 1st and 2nd last coat to no backrolling. Seems crazy to back roll the paint to lower the quality of finish for touching up. 

[Jeremy Harris]

Trying to unravel the OEM for these things seems a bit of a minefield, with many of the lower price units seemingly being badged units that are really made by someone else.  It looks very much as if the market leaders kit has just been cloned some time in the past, as there looks to be a lot of interchangeability between units.  For example, the gun for the unit I have looks absolutely identical to at least four others with different brand names.  The piston pump unit on mine looks to be pretty near-identical to several others, too.  Having run it up to give it a quick test, just spraying water to make sure it was OK, the things I noticed were that the pump makes a fair bit of noise (about the same as a direct drive air compressor) and that the hose gets pretty stiff when the system is pressurised - I don't think it would be easy to use without the swivel fitting at the gun.  The way the pump turns on and off as you pull the trigger takes a bit of getting used to, as well.

 

The nozzle on mine is a 515, so a 10" spray pattern, 15 thou orifice.  Looking at it it seems to be identical to the nozzles used on several different makes of gun, which also makes me suspect that there's a bit of badge engineering going on.

[Alexphd1]

@JSHarris could you upload a picture of your machine?

 

[Jeremy Harris]

3 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said:

@JSHarris could you upload a picture of your machine?

 

 

Yes, I can, but it'll have to be next week, as I don't have it over here at the moment.

 

It looks as if the Spraytech brand name has now morphed into Titan, as far as I can tell, although it's a bit confusing trying to work out who makes what.  The Titan 400 looks very similar to the Spraytech I have, from looking at stuff on the web, and the guns and hose look identical.

[Alexphd1]

No rush.... a while to go before we are painting! 

[bassanclan]

I take it this sort of thing is the useless sprayer from the likes of B&M that you were talking about...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272619981919?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Not sure who's mentioned the Earlex, but I can confirm that they aren't great for spraying paint at all.  I had a very similar one many years ago, it was fine for spraying wood preservative on the fences we had at the time, but wouldn't handle paint unless it was thinned so much as to be like water.  I can't imagine trying to paint a house interior with one.

 

In contrast, the Spraytech is supposed to be able to spray unthinned emulsion paint, as long as it's well-stirred and ideally filtered to remove any lumps.  I've not got around to trying it yet, as I've been side tracked into making the garage loft storage area accessible, with a loft hatch, ladder and a small electric winch to lift stuff up there easily.  Having not looked at the garage loft floor until last week (it was roofed over before I got a chance to see it) I'm surprised how much space there is up there. 

 

The hatch and ladder are now fitted, the electric winch should be fitted tomorrow, then I can shift all the stuff that's cluttering the garage up and get room to prep and paint it properly.  The Spraytech should be able to spray floor primer and paint, too, which should make that job a lot easier.  I still haven't got around to taking a photo, but it's very similar looking to the Titan 400:

 

[jayroc2k]

Any update JSHarris?

 

keenly following this thread, 

[Jeremy Harris]

Sadly I've not got around to painting the garage yet.  I got sidetracked into buying and then assembling a shed to take all the garden tools etc (a metal one - believe it or not it's held together with over 1500 screws, nuts and bolts................).  I've got the loft hatch done, then added an electric hoist, with a lifting platform, so I could get stuff up there, then managed to do my back in a week or so ago, shifting some left over 8 x 4 sheets that I was cutting up to make shelves.  The back's getting a bit better now, so with a bit of luck I'll have the garage cleared out and ready to paint sometime next week.

[Jeremy Harris]

Sorry, this is a very delayed update, as I didn't get around to painting the garage until yesterday.

 

The cheap'ish pressure sprayer works very well indeed.  There's a very slight knack in getting the pressure setting right, but overall it's not too fussy, so you can be up and spraying well after around ten minutes.  It is blindingly quick; it will empty a 5 litre can of paint in around 10 minutes.  The finish is very good, much better than I can get with either a brush or a roller.  It sprays thicker emulsion more easily than thinned emulsion. 

 

I made the mistake of thinning down the first mist coat, and it really wasn't needed.  It applies a LOT more paint than you can get on with a brush or roller, and runs don't seem to be a problem at all.  The only limit on how thick a coat you apply is really the finish, it noticeable degrades if you go too mad.  The big advantage of being able to apply more paint in a single pass is that you need fewer coats.  Two coats of white was absolutely fine and just a single coat over the green finished ceiling boards was enough, really, the second coat didn't make the finish any more opaque, just gave a better surface.

 

Spraying a 2.35m high ceiling from floor level was a doddle, with no need for any extension on the nozzle.  I reckon I sprayed the whole 6m x 4m ceiling in around 5 to 6 minutes, including taking time to go around into the corners.  Painting a garage isn't a great test, especially as the wall lining is OSB, but I reckon the smooth ceiling boards were pretty close to plasterboard in terms of smoothness, and the finish looks good enough to me.

 

The main downside of the thing is the time it takes to clean it after use.  After spraying 10 litres of paint in around twenty minutes, I then had to spend about half an hour washing the thing out and cleaning and drying the gun parts, then lubricating the pump ready for the next time I use it.  The other key point is that you have to mix the paint really, really well.  Mixing by hand with a stick isn't good enough, it really needs a paint mixer paddle on a drill.  Time spent mixing the paint is well spent, as if there is one lumpy bit it will block the pick up pipe filter, which then has to be cleaned and the system re-primed.

 

There is very little over-spray, so there's no need to go mad with masking, but there is a fair bit of dry bounce back if you don't keep the gun dead square and at the right distance from the surface.  This bounce back is just like white dust, the paint particles are so fine that they dry in the air, but they do settle on any horizontal surface.  They don't stick, though, so if you haven't put dust sheets down you will have a fair bit of cleaning up to do afterwards. You can spray right up to the edges of doors, windows etc, just by using a large bit of stiff card, with a straight edge, in your spare hand, as a movable mask.  It's not like air spraying at all, in that the paint pattern from the gun is very well defined, with almost no over-spray.

 

Overall I think this was a good buy.  I hate painting, with a vengeance, so might well have ended up paying someone to do this job otherwise, and that would have cost at least as much as this spray system.  For anyone looking to paint a large area I would highly recommend thinking about buying or hiring one of these units.  Mine was pretty cheap, and looked new to me, and cost less than a day's labour for a decorator.  Add in that there are no consumable costs, like rollers, trays, etc, and it looks even better value.

 

As a final point, there is a safety issue that should be mentioned.  These things run at pressure-washer type pressures, and can inject paint through your skin if you're daft enough to put you hand in front of the gun.  The consequences of that could be very serious indeed, so best to wear gloves and be aware of the danger. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by JSHarris

[bassanclan]

Thanks for the update.

It's definitely something that I will use based on that.

I've got 330sqm of render which I want to put a clear coat on and acres of internal plaster to paint.

It's just a case of whether I can get hold of one at the right price second hand or hire one.

 

How is coverage compared to roller etc? Do you waste a lot in cleaning etc?

[Alexphd1]

excellent review! 

[Jeremy Harris]

22 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

Thanks for the update.

It's definitely something that I will use based on that.

I've got 330sqm of render which I want to put a clear coat on and acres of internal plaster to paint.

It's just a case of whether I can get hold of one at the right price second hand or hire one.

 

How is coverage compared to roller etc? Do you waste a lot in cleaning etc?

 

Coverage is a LOT better than with a roller, as you can apply an opaque coat with just a single pass, as the paint goes on thicker, with a nice surface finish.  The down side of this is that the drying time is extended, so re-coating times are a bit longer.  I waited overnight between coats, and that seemed fine.

 

You do waste around 200ml or so of paint when you clean it, so it doesn't make much sense to only paint a small area at any one time; it's better to try and use as much paint as possible at each go.

 

I'm not sure how that compares to wastage from a roller, but I'd guess that it might be around double the wastage, if you were careful with a roller and made sure that there was no paint left in the tray, then a roller would have less wastage, I'm sure.  It's worth either buying tall tins of paint, or dispensing the paint into a tall, narrow, pot, as the pick up pipe leaves about 20mm of paint in the bottom of the pot.  This isn't really wastage, as you can still use that paint to cut in around tight areas where the spray gun pattern is too wide to paint easily, much as you'd have to do with a roller.

[Mr Punter]

Good review from JSH.  A proper high pressure sprayer can be a great time saver if you have a large area to cover, you spend on prep and you don't need to touch n any bits (they will never match).

[Ferdinand]

Is there a dust-like fire risk from those paint particles as they solidify in the air?

 

Probably a silly question, but better asked.

[Barney12]

21 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Is there a dust-like fire risk from those paint particles as they solidify in the air?

 

Probably a silly question, but better asked.

 

In short: no.

 

Even solvent based paints atomise at a level which means the solvent is dispersed into the atmosphere very quickly. 

But saying that there are extremes to everything and if you chuck enough over-spray in a confined space etc etc etc.

 

PPE is the bigger issue.