When will it end?

[Adsibob]

14 minutes ago, Shah said:

Great thanks for the link. Will check it out. 

Will that be enough insulation? Are you going to use k-rend?

Well it's the most we can do because of the eaves of our house and other issues, windows etc. Obviously the more you do the better, but it needs to be balanced with other considerations. We are putting in a lot of insulation in the subfloor and in the loft and installing MVHR so all in all it will be a big upgrade.

It's not been finalised yet, but I don't think we will use k-rend. We have a wall that is pretty damp and needs some specialist treatment. We considered k-rend, but there are other products that are more suitable in our circumstances.

[Adsibob]

8 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

Word of advice, if you can relax a bit and just accept Christmas, you and those around you will have a better life.

 

I don't know if your target date is driven by you and your families own expectations and eagerness to get in or if there is a financial implication or maybe current living situation implication. 

 

I used to set targets and dates for completion stages all the time, until my wife asked me what would happen if we were not done by date X. We were on holiday when she asked me this and I had a clear head, I thought for a bit, but I must have looked rather perplexed to her because I had no answer. Nothing would happen, I'd have just failed to meet my target date.

 

We came back from holiday with a new date, it came and went, I didn't care. It will be what it will be. I now even have some weekends off from working on "the site". We are actually nearly done, our gravel arrived today for the newly landscaped bits, so did our fence timber. Maybe I should say completion date is the 27th of June... or maybe not, who cares. It will get done.

 

I got my completion certificate yesterday so technically I am done, but you are never done with a property until you sell it!

 

 

Thanks @Carrerahill, that's good advice. I guess it's a combination of three things:

1. legitimate costs in terms of having to pay rent and two lots of council tax - in London this is quite a lot of money;
2. general levels of stress being quite high whilst the building project goes on: this in part has been fuelled by my ridiculous neighbours who have got very aggressive with us over noise. We have tried really hard to be civil with them, bought them presents and apologised for the inconvenience which I genuinely accept is extremely irritating for them, but when all the party wall work was finished and the noise levels genuinely abated significantly, they continued to complain just as aggressively as they did before. I have now stopped answering their calls and literally have half a dozen voicemails accusing me of all sorts of things. They have completely lost the plot and are basically mad, asking us not to make any noise before 12 noon and claiming they are entitled to dictate when our builder has breaks etc.  But another part of this stress is certain relatives who we see very often keep telling me that I shouldn't accept such delays and keep preaching about how when they've done building work it always runs on time (even though that is bullsh*t).  I don't think they realise the complexity of our project or its scope. They think they know better and it's very difficult for me to ignore this because I'm succeptible to this sort of "pressure".
3. Just wanting to move on with my life. We have been trying to do this since we first applied for planning in 2018 and it's just taken much longer than we thought. We'd even started house hunting in 2015 only for Brexit to freeze up the housing market. I promised myself I would move to working part time once I knew what the project would cost me and reconsolidated my finances, but that is a bit difficult to do until it's actually finished.

But I hear what you say. There are things in life one cannot control, so it's really about having the courage to change what one can and the ability to accept what one can't. I probably need to just accept that there's not too much I can do, but still try to diplomatically get my concerns over to the builder.

[Declan52]

Stop trying to please your neighbours. The more you try to appease them the more they will want. You can make as much noise as you want from 8am-6pm Mon to Fri and there is nothing they can do about it. Just walk away when them come out and if they confront you keep your temper. Tell them to phone the police/ council if they have an issue with the noise. 

With how there is so many shortages of every kind of material used in building you have just hit the wrong time. There isn't much your builder can do if a particular item has a very long waiting time due to the present circumstances. I have been on many many sites and shat always happens and things go pear shaped and it's the client who ends up waiting a bit longer. If the guys doing the work are worth keeping then don't sour a good relationship. What if you confront them and they decide to walk away. By the time you find new builders and go through that stress are you really prepared to fight in  court over a contract that a judge might find in the builders favour. So you could end up with a build finished much later and a legal bill. Its always nicer to sit down with tea and hob knobs( chocolate ones) and have a chat.

[Mr Punter]

I have to agree that having neighbours, relatives and passers-by pissing in your ear while you are spending a shedload on a complex building project is enough to push most people to their limit.

 

Put them on ignore.  Hopefully this is the dark hour before the dawn.

[Jilly]

The neighbours are probably more irritable because that have been working from home. 

[Adsibob]

Thanks everyone, all good advice and thanks also for the support. Don’t know what I would do without this forum. Often feel alone with this, particularly as the only other people I know who are building at the moment are some friends of ours who went with a building company that were way over our budget and an architect and project management package that cost £40k, so they are having, they tell me, a very stress free experience. 
I stopped taking the neighbours calls a while back. They are horrible people. They are the neighbours that put in vehement objections to our plans at every opportunity. They are both retired and don’t need to work, but young enough to get out and about.

And yes, I will have to just ignore family for the time being. 
We are going to bake some muffins and take them round to the builder and his guys. It’s been a couple of months since I’ve taken them any snacks and tea bags, so feel bad. Although they have converted my son’s future bedroom into a canteen/site office, with its own sink and boilling water dispenser, so I feel they’ve made themselves at home.

[Shah]

6 hours ago, Adsibob said:

We are putting in a lot of insulation in the subfloor and in the loft and installing MVHR so all in all it will be a big upgrade.

It's not been finalised yet, but I don't think we will use k-rend. We have a wall that is pretty damp and needs some specialist treatment.

This is good. We are also looking into MVHR but not sure just yet. Damp must be dealt with properly although after the treatment I think you could use any product?

[SteamyTea]

17 hours ago, Carrerahill said:

financial implication

Grand a week rent.

Two years of that and you could buy a country cottage.

[Adsibob]

4 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Grand a week rent.

Two years of that and you could buy a country cottage.

Well hopefully it won’t be a two year delay!

[ToughButterCup]

22 hours ago, Adsibob said:

...

1. Just wanting to move on with my life. We have been trying to do this since we first applied for planning in 2018 and it's just taken much longer than we thought..

....

We started in 1985.

Permission in 2016.

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

We started in 1985.

Permission in 2016.

Please tell me you are joking?

[Big Jimbo]

I hope with regards the neighbours that you don't end up where i have a few times. I have previously done renovations and extensions to property i have owned. I have ended up in the end not wanting to stay in the house due to the soured relationship with neighbours. So when i have finished them, i have ended up just selling them on.

It's funny, i am currently looking at a house in what i would call, not a run down area, but a bit old, a bit tired area. If i get it, i recon i can make £50k on the re-sale after refurb. Better still, i recon i will get permission to put an extra house to the side. If i did, it's another £100k + in the bank. The area just has normal people, the type who might do there own car servicing on the drive, rather than getting the main dealer to collect and service it (If you know what i mean.)

I have started to realise in life that the nicest people i meet, are people who are just trying to get by, and get on with life. The most unpleasent people i know are the people with money.

I saw a tv programme a few years ago about some really poor street in Southend. Everybody were on the breadline. They all looked out for each other, they all kept an eye on each others kids, and if One of them was hungry, somebody in the street would sort them out with a meal. I said to my wife "What a great place to live" They seemed to have values that so many people no longer have.

[Big Jimbo]

P.s Your builders have a right to work. I have no doubt that the people on site will have either rent, or mortgages to pay. Your neighbours prob bought the house for a few grand back in the dark ages, and think that because they have live there for ever they can call the shots. I hate neighbours. I would like to either live in the middle of nowhere, or in a street of average poor people.

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Adsibob said:

Please tell me you are joking?

No.

SWMBO bought the land (then an orchard) for £1000. 

 

Took Gorgeous George to change one sentence in Planning Law  ... in favour of sustainable development.... to make us believe we might have a chance. 

 

Honestly. 

[Adsibob]

5 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

I hope with regards the neighbours that you don't end up where i have a few times. I have previously done renovations and extensions to property i have owned. I have ended up in the end not wanting to stay in the house due to the soured relationship with neighbours. So when i have finished them, i have ended up just selling them on.

It's funny, i am currently looking at a house in what i would call, not a run down area, but a bit old, a bit tired area. If i get it, i recon i can make £50k on the re-sale after refurb. Better still, i recon i will get permission to put an extra house to the side. If i did, it's another £100k + in the bank. The area just has normal people, the type who might do there own car servicing on the drive, rather than getting the main dealer to collect and service it (If you know what i mean.)

I have started to realise in life that the nicest people i meet, are people who are just trying to get by, and get on with life. The most unpleasent people i know are the people with money.

I saw a tv programme a few years ago about some really poor street in Southend. Everybody were on the breadline. They all looked out for each other, they all kept an eye on each others kids, and if One of them was hungry, somebody in the street would sort them out with a meal. I said to my wife "What a great place to live" They seemed to have values that so many people no longer have.

Well that is consistent with my observations of the two sh*ts that live next to me. They have two fancy cars in their drive which they never use. Just there too show off their money. Bizarre they have never done anything to their hideous house since they bought it in the 1980s.

[AliG]

I think the minimum time it will take is 4 months and more likely 5 with delays.

 

You have the issue I had with my builder. I work to date has taken longer than expected, why would you not extend the deadline by that amount of time, plus an assumption that future work will also take longer than expected. Instead they will say they can make up time, when the evidence says the opposite happens.

 

Are you are you have actually listed all the work there? There is no mention of woodwork and doors. That could be another couple of weeks work easily. What about flooring?

 

How long has he allowed for decoration? This is where we thought we were almost finished but time ran ridiculously over. Decorating a 5 bed house with 3 coats of paint, all the woodwork etc is going to take a month.

Edited June 27, 2021 by AliG

[Adsibob]

7 hours ago, AliG said:

Are you are you have actually listed all the work there? There is no mention of woodwork and doors. That could be another couple of weeks work easily. What about flooring?

The stuff not listed is mainly to be done by third parties. E.g. most of ground floor is a poured floor to be done by Topcret (unless I find someone cheaper) and we are doing a lot of the honey thrift a separate company. There is actually no paint on the ground floor other than in the utility room as most walls are being clad with tiles or with wood and we are using a decorative plaster that doesn’t get painted. But the wood will need to be oiled with OSMO. Query whether we can do the wood oiling after we have moved in? Anyone know if OSMO oil gives off toxic fumes?

 Yes, I omitted the doors accidentally. There are only two on the ground floor, five on the first and two on the second though. But yes, that will add a couple of weeks. 
Hopefully in before Christmas then!

[Carrerahill]

On 25/06/2021 at 16:51, Adsibob said:

Thanks @Carrerahill, that's good advice. I guess it's a combination of three things:

1. legitimate costs in terms of having to pay rent and two lots of council tax - in London this is quite a lot of money;
2. general levels of stress being quite high whilst the building project goes on: this in part has been fuelled by my ridiculous neighbours who have got very aggressive with us over noise. We have tried really hard to be civil with them, bought them presents and apologised for the inconvenience which I genuinely accept is extremely irritating for them, but when all the party wall work was finished and the noise levels genuinely abated significantly, they continued to complain just as aggressively as they did before. I have now stopped answering their calls and literally have half a dozen voicemails accusing me of all sorts of things. They have completely lost the plot and are basically mad, asking us not to make any noise before 12 noon and claiming they are entitled to dictate when our builder has breaks etc.  But another part of this stress is certain relatives who we see very often keep telling me that I shouldn't accept such delays and keep preaching about how when they've done building work it always runs on time (even though that is bullsh*t).  I don't think they realise the complexity of our project or its scope. They think they know better and it's very difficult for me to ignore this because I'm succeptible to this sort of "pressure".
3. Just wanting to move on with my life. We have been trying to do this since we first applied for planning in 2018 and it's just taken much longer than we thought. We'd even started house hunting in 2015 only for Brexit to freeze up the housing market. I promised myself I would move to working part time once I knew what the project would cost me and reconsolidated my finances, but that is a bit difficult to do until it's actually finished.

But I hear what you say. There are things in life one cannot control, so it's really about having the courage to change what one can and the ability to accept what one can't. I probably need to just accept that there's not too much I can do, but still try to diplomatically get my concerns over to the builder.

1. OK costs - I get it, but assuming your not going to end up bankrupt don't let money cause you too much undue stress - I get it money is very important and you need to be careful but in the grand scheme of things if it will be a drop in the ocean looking back in 3-4 years then try and ignore it.

 

2A. Sounds like the neighbours are in insane, I would want to shut them up. In this situation I would send them a letter. Outline the fact you are not starting too early or too late and that works are carried out during normal hours of business, if your house was owned by a developer and being worked on by a developer they would give not a hoot and do as they please, OK, you need to live next to these people but just state to them they need to deal with it. 12:00 is unreasonable, on a Friday the guys are thinking about going home at this point. I think between about 07:00 and 20:00 you can make noise and it is not against the nuisance noise, even in my eyes 08:00-17:00 would be totally fair. In fairness later on a Saturday and ideally nothing noisy on a Sunday would be respectful. 

 

2B. Your relatives need to be reminded things are not normal just now, and that perhaps their builds were less onerous or went to plan because there were no issues. Relatives who "know best" are often a pest. If you can, just tell them you appreciate their thoughts but please can they not remind you as you are under tremendous stress. I think that is friendly enough and might get you some breathing room.

 

3. Yes, I get that, just accept that your life is a part (more like full time I am sure) house developer just now!

 

Good luck.

[Temp]

https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/05/time-can-builders-start-work-uk-according-law-7606799/

 

Highlights.. 

 

What time can builders start work in the UK according to the law – and can they work on Sundays?

 

The times at which noisy work is allowed differs across the country – because the Control of Pollution Act 1974 gave Local Authorities the power to control noise from construction sites and similar areas.

 

Whilst these do vary across different councils, the standard hours during which noisy work is acceptable is usually between 8am and 6pm, Monday to Friday.

 

On Saturdays, builders are generally allowed to work between 8am and 1pm, but this can vary slightly with different councils.

 

On Sundays and on Bank Holidays, there is less specific guidance on hours, but most councils say that there should be no noisy work taking place.

 

Although these are good guidelines, it is worth checking your Local Authority website as they can alter slightly, e.g. Cheshire East which states its Saturday hours are 9am to 2pm.

 

 

[Ferdinand]

Sounds tense. Can I add my advice to the others? Go get a cup of tea.
 

On your builder, your position if it goes for conflict is not that strong, as demand is so high now. My suggestion is to pick up the Hewlett-Packard idea of Management By Walking Around, and visiting regularly but non-instrusively - preferably each morning - so that they know you are very interested. Keep interested and talking. Keep an eye on the detail, and continue to dream up ideas as to how you can save budget and help the project. If you need to be have minor changes, make sure the reasons are valid but do it if you need to. Suggest you pay special attention to the next 2-4 weeks of work to catch anything you might have missed.

 

Your neighbours are being NFN. Normal for Nimbies. In one sense I don't blame them - who wants a bloody great building project next door thumping away for a whole year? OTOH you have the rights you have to make your home. I would make sure you stick by whatever the LA has set for limitations, and don't worry about Ns as far as you can. Do NOT evaluate them totally on what is happening now and blow up the relationship - when it is really finished tell them and drop some obviously nice wine round (couple of bottles of Nyetimber?). Then leave them alone for 6 months or so and then see how it goes. Even reluctant tolerance in the future is far better than being sworn enemies. I wouldn't invite them to look as a close interaction about your new pride and joy while things are still tense between you might not help, and both your senses of judgement will be affected and both egos tender. When you get to the end do something symbolically to leave any bad feelings behind on your side.

 

I got PP for a small housing estate behind mine, and the neighbours objected vociferously ("you know we have to, don't you?"), but a few years later we are still talking if not yet going to sex parties together. But then we are both somewhat involved in construction.

 

On your budget, perhaps it might be helpful to know how  much you will be up financially at the end? Find out what your rebuilt house will be worth (something similar selling price in the same street/area), and compare it to what you paid. Since 2015 it should be quite a lot extra nearly everywhere. Try and think of overruns as a reduction in gain, rather than a standalone loss. Trickery, but perhaps useful.

 

Pay attention to your relationship if you have one. And carve out time for mutual things are *not* building related (ban mention of it, go clay pigeon shooting -just something else) . This is really important.

 

Is the self-builders prayer helpful, or at least the sentiments therein? It's all about focusing on the things you can control, and keeping a careful watch on the progress of the rest:

 

 

And get a picture of a kitten for the wallpaper on your phone :?

 

Ferdinand

 

[SteamyTea]

15 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Hit the bottle and you may be chanting that every week.  Wonder if Alice in the Archer's will be joining them.

Edited June 28, 2021 by SteamyTea

[Ferdinand]

17 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Hit the bottle and you may be chanting that every week.  Wonder if Alice in the Archer's will be joining them.

 

The thing I'm chanting involuntarily every week at the moment is "Yes Sir, I can boogie."

 

It's the fault of the Scottish Euro Fans.

[Temp]

I'm struggling to get someone to paint a few windows. First three calls I made only one replied and came to look. He didnt seem keen and two weeks later no quote. Today I called another three and only one go back to me. He is coming to look totomorrow Think he might be Polish.

[Bonner]

I chose my builder on the basis that he was the only one that answered the phone when I wanted to talk about the quotes. All the others didn’t even call me back or answer emails. His price was was reasonable and he was willing to talk to me and that is priceless!

[gc100]

Personally think you need to be *a lot* more flexible. Building a house is no simple task and very hard to estimate timelines. There are too many unknowns for even the most experienced builders and throwing in all the building material delays currently. Falling out with the builder is never good and ultimately it will cost you. You need to be constantly there and understand what they are doing - daily updates. It will take much longer than you hope/want. You cannot expect builders to work 8 hours straight - they need and are entitled to breaks. Its physical stuff. As far as progress not going at the speed you want - there are many jobs during a build that just appear like you are getting no where. I was lucky in the sense I spent 2 mornings and a whole day per week working with the builders on site. Some weeks it seemed like nothing got done - however we all worked our socks off.