markc Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, MattSu said: Do you care to expand on that, why is it not viable? Isn't it just a question of detail in terms of planning? Small developments and self builds never go as planned, there are always details that wont work, clashes between trades etc. site works are flexible and can/will adapt as needs arise. Off site / pre fab requires every detail to be thought out and checked prior to fabrication and delivery. Sips Panels and kits are a bit different in that the supplier generally designs/details and erects their own product, but at a premium of course. It all really depends what you are wanting to achieve, fast build? reduced cost? etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 You could also go halfway with something like a Scotframe hybrid type kit. It can include frame, windows, plasterboard, doors, stairs and skirting etc. You still need to actually erect the kit and fit everything. Then you have cladding, roof, electrics and plumbing. But you should be able to fix a chunk of the cost at the outset. Ours went up pretty easily but I think the prices have taken a bit of a hike since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 From my builders merchant today... Worcester Bosch Product: Oil Boilers & Accessories Approx Price Increase: 5.00% Increase Date: 1st June Quantum Product: Cavity Closers Approx Price Increase: 15.00% Increase Date: 1st June Brett Landscaping Product: Concrete Paving Approx Price Increase: 5.00% Increase Date: 1st June Simpson Strong-Tie Product: Metalwork Approx Price Increase: 25.00% Increase Date: 1st June Dart Product: Power Tools Approx Price Increase: 4.00% Increase Date: 1st June Ariel Plastics Product: Ventilation Approx Price Increase: 10.50% Increase Date: 1st June Ballytherm Product: Insulation Approx Price Increase: 8.00% Increase Date: 7th June Kronospan Product: OSB/MDF Approx Price Increase: 28.00% Increase Date: 1st June Kingspan Product: Oil Tanks Approx Price Increase: 8.00% Increase Date: 1st June Arbor Product: C24 Approx Price Increase: 14.00% Increase Date: 1st June Assa Abloy Product: Ironmongery Approx Price Increase: 6.50% Increase Date: 7th June Roca Product: Sanitaryware Approx Price Increase: 5.00% Increase Date: 1st July Flex-R Product: Flat Roofing Approx Price Increase: 19.00% Increase Date: 1st July Timco Product: Fixings Approx Price Increase: 12.00% Increase Date: 1st July Keystone Product: Steel Lintels Approx Price Increase: 16.50% Increase Date: 1st July Rettig Product: Radiators Approx Price Increase: 16.00% Increase Date: 1st July Catnic Product: Steel Lintels Approx Price Increase: 18.00% Increase Date: 1st July Kind Regards Turnbull & Co Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan 1 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Cut and bent steel now at €890 a ton now...... that up from €520 a ton a year ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Timber situation to get worse according to.. https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/timber-shortage-gets-worse “Usually during the summer shutdown period there is a significant reliance on Swedish sawmill stocks. However, if these stocks are now at their lowest level for 20 years there will not be sufficient supply to satisfy UK structural wood demand in Q3. “Although prices have risen substantially from an artificially-low point towards the end of 2019, they have now exceeded the levels of 2018, and are set to increase further as the current supply situation significantly worsens. “We have been warning since the beginning of the year that we believed Q3 would be the most difficult part of the year, and there is now sufficient information to support this assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 On 01/06/2021 at 10:39, MattSu said: I'm just at the pre-planning, plot buying stage. But what concerns me on this development is the uncertainty of the completed property value, and how that is offset over some of the unknown costs. Because the plots are in a rural location, there is no gas supply, and a requirement for them to be at least Code 4 homes, so I'm unfamiliar with some aspects of this type of build such as heating/recovery systems, PVs, electric charging points (and their costs), but also the potential for let say just a 10% uplift in building material and labour costs, would pose a big problem for me. Because I will require substantial borrowing to complete this project, something I've never had to rely on before, I would like to structure the project so that it can be completed very quickly, so I'm looking at methods such as beam and block and SIP construction. But if it turns out these building methods are unpredictable in the short term, I may need to reconsider the whole development viability. I thought Code for Sustainable Homes went voluntary 6-7 years ago. How do they make a standard that is no longer maintained (aiui) compulsory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 On 01/06/2021 at 10:50, markc said: Where in the Country are you? Most developers are having a hard time at the moment, material and labour shortages are making many smaller projects uneconomical I agree. At least self builders can still do the labour intensive stuff if they are hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSu Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, Ferdinand said: I thought Code for Sustainable Homes went voluntary 6-7 years ago. How do they make a standard that is no longer maintained (aiui) compulsory? The planning condition has a DER of 19% over TER, so while it is not specifically stating the sustainability code, it is implied by the planning condition. (at least that's my understanding of it). Edited June 3, 2021 by MattSu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Trying to get battens at the moment.. two weeks ago... Todays prices: That's a 40% rise on 25x 50mm battens, and I really need them right now. WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2021/05/25/timber-batten-prices-soar-through-the-roof/ Talman said: “Timber battens were the second-highest material shortage after roof tiles with a third of contractors reporting shortages.” Edited June 3, 2021 by Temp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 03/06/2021 at 09:49, SuperJohnG said: Trying to get battens at the moment.. two weeks ago... At least you got a price. My local BM put my name on a list and said maybe sometime in June for roofing battens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 On 04/06/2021 at 10:24, epsilonGreedy said: At least you got a price. My local BM put my name on a list and said maybe sometime in June for roofing battens. I've just managed to get 2700mof BS5534 25 x 50mm battens for 80p/m - double Decembers price. However most others now selling at £1.10 and the guy just told me they have just been offered them wholesale at £1.40 (thats them buying for the their 20 off branches.). It's gone mad for sure - but there is still honest trade suppliers out there with stock. It'll be short lived and 2-4 months be back more reasonable. It's just rubbish if you need it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said: It'll be short lived and 2-4 months be back more reasonable. You think? i would love that to be the case but i don' know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragsterDriver Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 It’s worldwide from covid, American framers are being hammered with obscene price increases. Also the glass shortage worldwide is made worse here by pilkington closing two out of three furnaces for maintenance. I've seen a lot of projects being shelved (large and small) due to cost increases. I’ve certainly picked a horror time to build mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Moonshine said: You think? i would love that to be the case but i don' know! For sure. Prices will hit their terminal points where people just will stop buying whatever the item is - production will continue and then as the demand drops off prices will start to trend downwards again till it reaches a sensible level. The new normal might well be slightly higher than before (it might even drop lower as there will be excess with extra production going on just now). It's just the time it will take to do that. But main people who buy wholesale like the Builders merchants and commercial homebuilders are already shutting sites and refusing to buy at the current prices so for timber/ concrete etc (which I believe is the highest demand right now) this shoudl be us at or near the peak in my opinion. It was the same for mutli finish and plaster last year. Now go in B&Q and it stacked pallets and pallets high and not an issue I believe. There will be other items that it moves onto not quite sure what they are yet but it'll calm down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragsterDriver Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said: For sure. Prices will hit their terminal points where people just will stop buying whatever the item is - production will continue and then as the demand drops off prices will start to trend downwards again till it reaches a sensible level. The new normal might well be slightly higher than before (it might even drop lower as there will be excess with extra production going on just now). It's just the time it will take to do that. But main people who buy wholesale like the Builders merchants and commercial homebuilders are already shutting sites and refusing to buy at the current prices so for timber/ concrete etc (which I believe is the highest demand right now) this shoudl be us at or near the peak in my opinion. It was the same for mutli finish and plaster last year. Now go in B&Q and it stacked pallets and pallets high and not an issue I believe. There will be other items that it moves onto not quite sure what they are yet but it'll calm down. Seems fair comment that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said: Prices will hit their terminal points where people just will stop buying whatever the item is - production will continue and then as the demand drops off prices will start to trend downwards again till it reaches a sensible level. The new normal might well be slightly higher than before (it might even drop lower as there will be excess with extra production going on just now). It's just the time it will take to do that. But main people who buy wholesale like the Builders merchants and commercial homebuilders are already shutting sites and refusing to buy at the current prices so for timber/ concrete etc (which I believe is the highest demand right now) this shoudl be us at or near the peak in my opinion. Fair oints and i do hope that is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Moonshine said: Fair oints and i do hope that is correct So do I. I've a bucket load of renderboard to buy and the price is just not pretty. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSu Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 22 hours ago, DragsterDriver said: It’s worldwide from covid, American framers are being hammered with obscene price increases. Also the glass shortage worldwide is made worse here by pilkington closing two out of three furnaces for maintenance. I've seen a lot of projects being shelved (large and small) due to cost increases. I’ve certainly picked a horror time to build mine. Well, last week I took the difficult decision to pull out of a land purchase for two plots, in part because of the material prices and labour shortages. It's impossible to plan a project when prices are inflated and no one knows when it's going to stop. Just too risky. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Merchants I was using couple of months ago had about 6 full pallets of multi finish out of date. Must be from over ordering after the shortage. Yard lad said it was 15 quid a pallet plus delivery so I agreed to have a pallet, manager said no it's not far enough out of date. Was still in there 6 weeks later when finishing up the job and we had our finish from another crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragsterDriver Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 23 hours ago, MattSu said: Well, last week I took the difficult decision to pull out of a land purchase for two plots, in part because of the material prices and labour shortages. It's impossible to plan a project when prices are inflated and no one knows when it's going to stop. Just too risky. it’s open ended at the moment- labour is in such short supply if they weren’t mates I think people could ask double rates. It’s that busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 On 01/06/2021 at 09:43, MattSu said: Hello I'm new to the forum and have been reading posts with interest. Just how serious is the current price hike and material shortage? I am in the process of buying two building plots to develop and sell on, and I have to say the current headlines are very alarming. Having built in brick and block before, I was starting to consider the timber frame or sips route, as all my headaches seem to come from dealing with bricklayers; but having seen figures such as 80% increase in timber being bounded about, it makes for sobering reading. When I was finishing off a property renovation late last year, we couldn't get hold of finish plaster for love nor money, is the situation still this bad but across the board now? Is there an argument for choosing less mainstream materials to carry out the build, rather than relying on the staples, or is it a raw materials problem which will affect everything? My plan today is to start speaking with timber frame suppliers and working through my costings to see what's what. what did the timber frame companies say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragsterDriver Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Travis are raising prices on sawn timber 25% and planed 50% or something crazy on Monday. I wasn’t listening properly in shock- they’re not honouring the price on deliveries booked for next week either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freshy Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 On 14/06/2021 at 17:29, Amateur bob said: what did the timber frame companies say? My revised quote was up by 50%! I've discounted Timber frame now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, freshy said: My revised quote was up by 50%! I've discounted Timber frame now... Patience..... 40% drop in timber prices in the US in June -> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/30/lumber-prices-dive-more-than-40percent-in-june-biggest-monthly-drop-on-record.html Not sure where you are in the planning stages but I'd guess that next year prices will be back where they were. So get the quote when you're ready not before. Look at what happened to plaster and plasterboard - you couldn't get it for love nor money last year (the factory is in the next village to us and was off-line for 3 months or so). Production has restarted, scaled up and caught up on the backlog. Simon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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