How many objections did you receive?

[miike]

During the pp process for your house, how many neighbours objections did you receive? I applied for pp for a contemporary style house in a fairly densely populated part of town and one of the neighbours rallied the locals to put in objections which mostly came through on the last day (about 20 in total). There were about 10 in support to contrast. Objections were mainly about a contemporary house being out of keeping with the area, a lot of what could be referred to as 'rants' rather than material objections. There were no objections from technical consultees. 

 

Do weak objections carry more weight when there are multiple people stating it? 

[Conor]

Objections are meaningless unless they are directly relating to actual planning policies... e.g. if ina conservation area, pointing out that the design does not meet the design criteria is valid, but writing in and saying you don't like the look of a design is meaningless.

 

If you have a contemporary design in a largely "traditional" (what does that even mean?!) area, then it will be likely the planners will be expecting something of "outstanding architectural design (to quote our local planning policy). That of course, is completely down to the subjective interpretation of the planning officer.

 

We did a modest bungalow type design, but with modern design styles ( large windows, timber cladding etc), the local heritage and monuments people listed 10 objections, none were sustained by the planner as they were all subjective design preferences (e.g. she wanted timber window frames) not linked specifically to the planning policy.

 

Conversely, neighbours across the road put in an application. There was a single objection, but it was very detailed and referenced specfic parts of the design that were not aligned with the planning policy. I'll be majorly pissed off if they get though planning as we deliberately avoided anything that was against the design guide and we've ended up with quite an ordinary design as we thought we'd never get the likes of flat roofs, zinc cladding etc through.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Conor

[jack]

52 minutes ago, miike said:

Do weak objections carry more weight when there are multiple people stating it? 

 

Absolutely not. It isn't a democracy!

 

The only practical impact of lots of objections is that they may trigger the application being brought before committee. I think that happens in our area if you get more than 5 objections. Of course, I think counsellors are entitled to bring it to committee of their own accord, even without any objections having been lodged.

[miike]

On 11/02/2021 at 13:51, jack said:

Absolutely not. It isn't a democracy!

 

The only practical impact of lots of objections is that they may trigger the application being brought before committee. I think that happens in our area if you get more than 5 objections. Of course, I think counsellors are entitled to bring it to committee of their own accord, even without any objections having been lodged.

 

I can deal with a committee so not the end of the world if it comes to that! 

[nod]

I think the main reason for neighbors objecting Is that they don’t want anything of any description building there 

NIMBYs

[Onoff]

Pedantic sorts with too much time on their hands. There's forums for people like that...

[Ralph]

On our first design the person who chairs planning matters on the community council was really not happy with the "modern" look and feel. We were expecting objections from him but none came in. What seems to have happened is that he knew there is no point because they were not based on any planning policy, just that he did not like it. 

[Carrerahill]

So basically one neighbour, who has probably been there for a while and knows a decent number of people has an issue with your proposed, so they have tried to rally the troops to try and cause you some issues, in their minds they hope that they can stop it, this shows their naivety as this is often not the case. 

 

I get it, if you live in a street with cottages from the 1800's and suddenly someone builds a copper and timber clad box it might not "fit in", but then, assuming the proposed is a nice copper and timber box then why not, it is 2021. It could be worse, a housing developer could build a boring, soulless, identical to every other house cheap production house. You are probably going to build something decent looking. 

 

Could be other issues too though.

 

I have an issue with messy selfish builders who take over the road and pavement for a year and leave spilt plaster and sand and concrete and have rubbish blowing about the place. So people can get upset when a build is going on near them. 

[miike]

9 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

So basically one neighbour, who has probably been there for a while and knows a decent number of people has an issue with your proposed, so they have tried to rally the troops to try and cause you some issues, in their minds they hope that they can stop it, this shows their naivety as this is often not the case. 

 

I get it, if you live in a street with cottages from the 1800's and suddenly someone builds a copper and timber clad box it might not "fit in", but then, assuming the proposed is a nice copper and timber box then why not, it is 2021. It could be worse, a housing developer could build a boring, soulless, identical to every other house cheap production house. You are probably going to build something decent looking. 

 

Could be other issues too though.

 

I have an issue with messy selfish builders who take over the road and pavement for a year and leave spilt plaster and sand and concrete and have rubbish blowing about the place. So people can get upset when a build is going on near them. 

 

I think this is exactly what has happened, early objectors had their 6+ page Magnum Opus submitted with a lot to write but little to say,  the latest ones are pretty half hearted. Fortunately, the neighbours have been rallied around points that aren't material issues. They've all focussed on the 'not in keeping with the local area', but our areas design policy specifically allows for high quality contemporary design. 

[Temp]

It can go either way... it a fine line between a "contrasting high quality contemporary design" and something "totally out of keeping with other houses in the area".

 

 

[Big Jimbo]

I had about 20. Next door neighbour rallied the troops. She hates me so much that she hired a planning consultant, and a firm of solicitors to object. I did end up with some satisfactory planning approval in the end. (Hooker, coke, and photos mean a married planning officer will do everything they can to get a pass.)

Generally i think people just don't like change. Neither do Parish Councils, (who like to think they are experts) Local councillors, (who want local votes)

In my opinion the NPPF is very badly written, and open to swinging both ways, depending on the views of the person reading it.

[Bitpipe]

25 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

I had about 20. Next door neighbour rallied the troops. She hates me so much that she hired a planning consultant, and a firm of solicitors to object. I did end up with some satisfactory planning approval in the end. (Hooker, coke, and photos mean a married planning officer will do everything they can to get a pass.)

Generally i think people just don't like change. Neither do Parish Councils, (who like to think they are experts) Local councillors, (who want local votes)

In my opinion the NPPF is very badly written, and open to swinging both ways, depending on the views of the person reading it.

 

I can beat that, next door IS a planning consultant and conveyancing solicitor.

 

Submitted a 10 page objection night before the deadline closed (in her husbands name). Poor planners had to rebut every point she made, none of which held any water at all.

 

The few objections that planning raised themselves we were able to address. None of these were raised by the locals - mostly variations of the theme of 'I don't like it'.

[Bitpipe]

3 hours ago, jack said:

 

Absolutely not. It isn't a democracy!

 

The only practical impact of lots of objections is that they may trigger the application being brought before committee. I think that happens in our area if you get more than 5 objections. Of course, I think counsellors are entitled to bring it to committee of their own accord, even without any objections having been lodged.

 

You can also call it in yourself if you think it helps your case, you just need to ask your local counsellor.

[joe90]

On 11/02/2021 at 17:26, Bitpipe said:

You can also call it in yourself if you think it helps your case, you just need to ask your local counsellor.

 

With ours we were told it had to be called in by a counciler, we found one who agreed with us and called it in fir us (but still lost) till I went to appeal ?

[Onoff]

Do 3rd party letters supporting a planning application carry any weight? As in "I think the development would enhance the village...." sort of thing. 

[Bonner]

Lots of support for this ‘replacement dwelling’ although I don’t think “I support proposal for new hotel” helped much ?

http://docs.west-lindsey.gov.uk/publisher/mvc/listDocuments?identifier=Planning&CaseNumber=140180&_ga=2.245869060.1664120275.1613068816-1077606281.1612817331

[miike]

57 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Do 3rd party letters supporting a planning application carry any weight? As in "I think the development would enhance the village...." sort of thing. 

 

I'm also curious about this and whether letters of support in general carry any weight. If only letters with 'material' objections weigh against an application, is there a similar standard for what would qualify a letter of support to weigh in favour? 

[ToughButterCup]

6 hours ago, miike said:

...

Do weak objections carry more weight when there are multiple people stating it? 

 

No. A bad argument is just that.

But micropolitics matters.

 

5 hours ago, Carrerahill said:

...

I get it, if you live in a street with cottages from the 1800's and suddenly someone builds a copper and timber clad box it might not "fit in", but then, assuming the proposed is a nice copper and timber box then why not, it is 2021. ... You are probably going to build something decent looking. 

...

 

Exactly this is what we have done. Our house fits in like a supurating thumb wound  on a manicured hand.

I live on a  chocolate box row of local-stone built 15 Century cottages, and slap bang on the end of that row is our new house: a sharp, modern wood-clad passivhaus (ish) design.  One '... opinion former ...' Councillor actually wrote in her objection , that the proposed house would  '.... spoil my Sunday morning walk ...' You couldn't make it up. Local Councillors one after the other visited us and asked why we were not building in exactly the same external style as the rest of the row ( 4 isolated houses)

 

My reply? It takes a hundred years to replace trees. A few million to replace stone

 

Four years later, that (spoil my walk) Councillor's own chocolate box house has two Tupperware built houses squatting on what was her  cabbage-patch size garden. I had to restrain myself from objecting to those houses on the grounds that they would

 

'... spoil my Sunday morning walk ...'

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by ToughButterCup

[Russdl]

46 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Our house fits in like a supurating thumb wound  on a manicured hand.

?

 

We had a few objections from neighbours who, to our face, were ‘on side’.
 

It was the standard “we don’t like the look of it” stuff which didn’t affect our application. The conservation officer did and it cost a hefty packet to put him back in his box. 
 

One of the neighbours has said of our house that’s it’s like a dark cloud has descended on the village. Others love it. Hence we call it Marmite House. 

[Mulberry View]

We had one near us, I've never seen anything like it. Was a simple plot split, but all the local residents got together and decided to latch onto the presence of Slow worms. It got refused for a number of reasons, but the Slow worms definitely put the nail in the coffin!

We've not put plans in yet, but we're hopeful as we aren't street facing at all. In fact, anyone that says they're affected by it are just those that hate change but can't really stand a proper reason up against it. It doesn't block anyones view, light, enjoyment of their property etc. It's just change and I know that in itself will bring the objections in, hopefully they'll be the usual meaningless drivel.

[miike]

Just to update this, the council have said they don't have a problem with the design in itself but they refuse to allow a modern house on this plot because it's a 'traditional setting'. 

 

They've said no additional plans or discussion will change their mind on this point so they are going to recommend refusal. 

 

They're contradicting the local design guidelines for the area (which specifically describe the area as a 'mix' of different styles and say that modern architecture 'adds interest and intrigue' to the street scene) so it'll be going straight to appeal but it's an additional 6+ months of waiting for a decision now. Very frustrating. 

[ToughButterCup]

Persistence,  Persistence, Persistence. 

[Ralph]

44 minutes ago, miike said:

Just to update this, the council have said they don't have a problem with the design in itself but they refuse to allow a modern house on this plot because it's a 'traditional setting'. 

That is very frustrating, you have my sympathies. Keep grinding away at them.
We had some debate because ours was not within the "Scottish vernacular". still not 100% sure what they actually wanted.

[joe90]

Don’t be afraid of going to appeal. After 4 planning applications (the last one was what the council wanted and enabled us to get on with the foundations) I then appealed the first application, what we originally wanted, pointing out several assumptions the council made that simply were not true (with proof) and we won hands down, council even got a rocket fir “not following their own planning guidelines”. I did our appeal myself, not rocket science just attention to detail. 

[Bramco]

1 hour ago, miike said:

They're contradicting the local design guidelines for the area (which specifically describe the area as a 'mix' of different styles and say that modern architecture 'adds interest and intrigue' to the street scene) so it'll be going straight to appeal but it's an additional 6+ months of waiting for a decision now. Very frustrating. 

 

If they are contradicting their local design guidelines they'll be toast at an appeal - it's just deeply frustrating that so many applications end up at appeal and often win because of some numpty in planning.  Don't let them win!!!  

 

As a couple of other posts said - persistence, persistence and keep grinding away at them.

 

Do you get an opportunity to speak at a planning meeting? If so, petition the planning committee members by email - simply point out how contradictory the recommendation is against the policy.   And don't worry about the objections - they only have merit if they refer to planning law, i.e. overbearing, green belt issues etc. if not they are simply ignored (or should be).

 

Simon