BartW Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Hi everyone, As per the title, I am have some ideas on what and how I want to achieve. But as always, it is good to get opinions from those who have been there and done that SO: Basic facts: - it will serve as a Gym at the back of the garden - there will be electrics run up to it with a separate RCD Consumer unit for lights and sockets - size will be 5m wide x 3m long (deep / running along the length of the garden) - it will sit at least 1m away from any of the three boundaries it will be embraced by, in order to minimise any additional need for fire safety measures - monopitch - minimum roof slope - roof sloping down towards the back with gutter on that side - front of the roof to have an overhang, lights within the soffit - there is a plan to put in a set of French doors, with fixed windows either side of it. Or just a biggish sliding door that would cover both. Of course that means more robust beam over the glazing given the unsupported span. The aim: - because it is a new build house that we will live in for the next two to three years (prior to building, and subsequently finishing our home home), it needs to serve the purpose, but at the same time be as cheap as it gets. But it needs to look good at the same time, so all off-the-shelf stuff is out of the question. All labour will be done by myself. I have all tools, and a joinery workshop with plant, and machinery, so I could fabricate panels off site, if I need to for a quicker assembly later. My queries, and thoughts on how to make it cheaper: - I plan on using 6"x2" C16 timbers for the whole shell (that is roof, walls, and base grid). Timbers @ 600mm c/c. Can I get away with lower class, or smaller timber at least for walls? or not a good idea? - I plan on using 100mm rock wool for the wall, roof, floor insulation. There is no provision for minimising of cold bridges. Does it get any cheaper? - Do I need to wrap a breather membrane around the whole thing? - The whole shell will be covered with OSB3. Plasterboard internally. Then mirrors in most places. - Floor will be OSB, then T&G vinyl planks. There are a few things I am unsure about: - if I decide to use metal cladding like this: https://www.cladco.co.uk/sheets/32-1000-box-profile-0-5-thick-polyester-paint-coated-roof-sheet for all roof and walls, do I need to batten out the external walls first? Aim would be to make it look like this, although a flat roof: - if I want to clad it in wood (more expensive), can I go directly over the OSB + Tyvek, or is best to use a cement board perhaps? Or should I assume I will not get away with not using battens first? - Another option I am looking at is vertically cladding with porcelain tiles. I like the clean sharp lines of something like the below, but will I get away cladding directly onto the OSB? Or does that warrant Cement board, perhaps onto a membrane? I would not want to clad as a rain screen cladding, but bond directly onto the walls ideally: - Final alternative is to use Cembrit Jutland vertical slate cladding onto OSB + Tyvek + battens. Per Square metre cost of the wall finish is important here. Finally, the base: Can I get away with using this instead of pouring a slab, or creating concrete pads? https://www.thegardenrange.co.uk/p/garden-base/shed-base/shed-base-kit-14ft-x-8ft/ I know some of the above methods might come across as some Mickey Mouse methods, and may be regarded as a generally not good practice (borderline stupidity). Therefore, please do not judge I have estimated I can build this for less than £3k in materials. I know it sounds laughably low, but it is just a "box" for my gym equipment, and with the right choice of materials, and methods I think it is doable PS. I read the other recent threads about concrete base, and building vs buying of the shed by @daiking which has served as a great wealth of information already. Now, I hope to be able to defy physics (and finances), and make it happen on a cheap Thanks! Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 59 minutes ago, BartW said: ... My queries, and thoughts on how to make it cheaper: ... than .... ? '... as cheap as it gets ... ' is £800 per square meter if you are @nod, £1200 to £1400 if you work at it, and stupid prices if you are on Grand Designs (with recent notable exceptions) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 My "garden building" measures 8M by 3M and cost £4000 but would not be described as "pretty" or to everyones liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: than .... ? '... as cheap as it gets ... ' is £800 per square meter if you are @nod, £1200 to £1400 if you work at it, and stupid prices if you are on Grand Designs (with recent notable exceptions) I think you are quoting house build prices, and all I am pricing is a “shed” ? 17 minutes ago, ProDave said: My "garden building" measures 8M by 3M and cost £4000 but would not be described as "pretty" or to everyones liking. This gives me hope ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 19 minutes ago, BartW said: This gives me hope ? It was very tongue in cheek. It's a 28ft static caravan. Used as temporary accomodation during the build, presently still storing building materials but will end up as the 3 main rooms used as a studio, store room and workshop, with the added bonus of still having a working WC. and we will probably leave the kitchen sink in, place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just to clarify: are you intending to live in this for 2-3 years? This will measure 15m2 externally, so about 12m2 internally? Will you have kitchen, washing and laundry facilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I’m confused as well, are you intending to live in this as you build the new place. If you want cheap then stop looking at that external tile cladding, it is eye wateringly expensive. No no type of cladding should be fixed to the osb, you will need an external weather barrier membrane on top of the osb then a batten to create a void, if mot any moisture that penetrates the rain screen will touch the osb and could penetrate, the batten allows a drainage gap and also ventilation to dry any moisture that gets through. Metal sheets will be the cheapest form of cladding, as long as you stick to corrugated and avoid raised seam. Dont go smaller than 125mm for the walls 100mm of rockwool type insulation is not enough without a serious heat source and then you will be heating the garden as much as the room. You need to identify exactly what what you need this room to do then design around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 If this is really temporary site accommodation then take the easy route. £5K or less will get you a good static caravan with all services ready to hook up and move into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 Hi, sorry I should have made myself clearer. we are buying a new build house. We will live in it for two to three years whilst building. we want to build a gym where the new build is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 hours ago, BartW said: 5m wide x 3m long Not very big for a gym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, SteamyTea said: Not very big for a gym. Current garage is 4.9m x 2.5m a third of which is taken up by suitcases and workshop stuff. It’s not the space, it’s the lifts that matter ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: I’m confused as well, are you intending to live in this as you build the new place. If you want cheap then stop looking at that external tile cladding, it is eye wateringly expensive. No no type of cladding should be fixed to the osb, you will need an external weather barrier membrane on top of the osb then a batten to create a void, if mot any moisture that penetrates the rain screen will touch the osb and could penetrate, the batten allows a drainage gap and also ventilation to dry any moisture that gets through. Metal sheets will be the cheapest form of cladding, as long as you stick to corrugated and avoid raised seam. Dont go smaller than 125mm for the walls 100mm of rockwool type insulation is not enough without a serious heat source and then you will be heating the garden as much as the room. You need to identify exactly what what you need this room to do then design around that. Yes, so as above, I should have been clearer. we are going to build at Graven Hill. But we are also buying a house at Graven Hill. The house is small. The build is likely to take two years when it starts. We don’t want to give up our lifestyles because of the build. the house we are buying is tiny, but the garden at the back is 11 to 14m long, and 7m wide. we were gonna get an off the shelf shed, but they are not pretty, and we would spend around £2.5k to £3k on one. The outbuilding will have no toilet, shower. It will never be a temporary accommodation, or a guest lodge. It will always be a gym studio. Internally the remit is very simple. externally, I would like it to be nice to look at from our kitchen and bedroom black metal cladding is pretty much the cheapest and simplest solution. wood would be more in-keeping, and tile cladding would be an ambition. Why? Just because I suppose. whilst I appreciate our time at that property will be limited, I would like to be proud of it. Just like everything else in life that I do (or at least try ? ). plus, it will be three years between now and we will likely have (started and) finished the build. And that is a long time by my going. Whatever, and however we build it, will be a luxury, coming from a converted garage at the back of our flats. I am not worried about heating. I will spend an average of an hour a day there during Winter months. I have been using an electric fan heater, and that is enough to get me warm before I am too hot when I am pushing the weights. So answering @ToughButterCup’s question, cheaper than what? Cheaper than a proper robust detail with good heat insulating properties, minimal cold bridging, well planted structure would be. i identified those points. I just need some reassurances that I am not overcompromising the “build” bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just buy a shed/log cabin I love the look of a shipping container, something industrial but that wouldn't fly with the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, daiking said: Just buy a shed/log cabin I love the look of a shipping container, something industrial but that wouldn't fly with the boss. I think I can still do better than one of the prefabs, though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, daiking said: Just buy a shed/log cabin I love the look of a shipping container, something industrial but that wouldn't fly with the boss. I've mulled building an L shaped garden room painted/clad to LOOK like upcycled shipping containers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 hours ago, BartW said: I think I can still do better than one of the prefabs, though ? You can, but it won’t be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: You can, but it won’t be cheaper. I think that is a challenge to get the creative BuildHubbers to come up with a simple design that can be made by just about anyone, with basic tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: I think that is a challenge to get the creative BuildHubbers to come up with a simple design that can be made by just about anyone, with basic tools. “simple design that can be made by just about anyone, with basic tools” That would be a buildhub first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, daiking said: That would be a buildhub first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Sorry, I am rubbish with computers. Check out my thread "Posh shed" Although my shed is insulated to higher standards than you are thinking about, don't under estimate how much it will cost you to build something decent from scratch. Mine came in at just under £13k . It has got a shower and a toilet, and lots of electrics, but even if you didn't fit them, it would have been well over £4k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: Sorry, I am rubbish with computers. But very good at building posh sheds!!! https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/12942-my-new-shed/?tab=comments#comment-216428 Edited February 1, 2021 by joe90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Hi, Yes, I don't expect to build for £2k. I want to make it within £3k ideally. And I think it is doable, or at least the spreadsheet suggests that. I saw the posh shed thread, and yes, mine will be half the size, with no toilet, shower etc. Fewer windows, very basic inside. Overall, much more basic. And I value all comments, but being a buildhubber, I will go into it knowing it may be more expensive than we think. It's not the end of the world. It's not like I can't afford it, I just hope I can prove to myself it will be not as bad. And certainly a lot more fun! I promise to document it But first, please help and shed some feedback on the points from the original post: - Is this a safe solution: https://www.thegardenrange.co.uk/p/garden-base/shed-base/shed-base-kit-14ft-x-8ft/ or am I better doing pads with concrete blocks, then DPC and cross frame? The external facades is the one that is more important than not: - We now know that corrugated metal finish would be quickest, and stands a chance of looking smart. Do I run battens to provide ventilation between OSB and cladding? - Timber slats will need battens, thanks for confirming. I thought it may be the case - If I choose to tile it externally, can I simply batten and add another sheet of OSB / cement board to affix it? What if I build the whole outbuilding, clad in OSB, and then "wateproof it", literally in a same way like one would with a wet room prior to tiling. Or GRP it all around? Many thanks! Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, BartW said: Is this a safe solution: https://www.thegardenrange.co.uk/p/garden-base/shed-base/shed-base-kit-14ft-x-8ft/ or am I better doing pads with concrete blocks, then DPC and cross frame? I can't see why that wouldn't be a good solution. I like the look of the tiles you can fit onto the base which I guess would give a good finish inside the shed. https://www.thegardenrange.co.uk/p/garden-base/non-slip-rubber-base-tile/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: I can't see why that wouldn't be a good solution. I like the look of the tiles you can fit onto the base which I guess would give a good finish inside the shed. https://www.thegardenrange.co.uk/p/garden-base/non-slip-rubber-base-tile/ I worry this would be too much of a compromise. I would want a proper insulated base with rockwool, or PIR board, then OSB deck and flooring inside (which I will have taken out from the new build, as we are going to tile the downstairs). I am trying to avoid having dirty, wet trades in the new garden, hence the attempt to propose the plastic matting as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linto Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Have you considered using SIPs to build it? Probably towards the top end of what you are talking price wise but would be a straight forward build and you could clad using what ever you fancy. Something like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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