Tesla going in today !

[Pocster]

I got my DNO to export upto 5kw rather than the normal 3.6kw so my pw is set for that .

[Onoff]

41 minutes ago, pocster said:

@Thorfun is on my Xmas pressie list for sure !

 

You'll be getting a thor thumthing for sure! ?

 

This is actually a really good thread. Early adopters pushing the boundaries/things forward. Wish I had the £££££ to join in! 

[SteamyTea]

Where I live there is 6 houses, the 3phase is evenly split between us.

 

One problem with having a PV on a house is using the power evenly.

Battery storage makes this easier. As does having a 3phase car charger.

May be worth having a 3phase heat pump as well.

 

Worth spending time on diversity calculations as some minor gains can be had there.

[Thorfun]

4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Where I live there is 6 houses, the 3phase is evenly split between us.

 

One problem with having a PV on a house is using the power evenly.

Battery storage makes this easier. As does having a 3phase car charger.

May be worth having a 3phase heat pump as well.

 

Worth spending time on diversity calculations as some minor gains can be had there.

 

I've been trying to give this 3-phase thing a lot of thought but I get a bit lost when it comes to electricity. I know I will be running different things in the house from different phases, so this means I'll need to split the PV panels to different phases so that everything is the house has the potential to be run from PV. but then adding a battery to the mix complicates things though, right? as that is 1-phase I presume I need to make a decision as to what I want the battery to power as it won't be able to power everything in the house as they're on different phases.

 

Also, I'm ok with a 3-phase car charger but why would I need a 3-phase AHSP? aren't they a lot more expensive that 1-phase? what benefit would that extra expense give me?

 

(I should probably start my own thread with these questions really! but I guess it's all relevant here with the Powerwall 2/PV setup) 

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

probably start my own thread with these questions really

Good idea as it is a nerdy detail thing phase balancing.

[joth]

37 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I'll need to split the PV panels to different phases so that everything is the house has the potential to be run from PV.

First question - why do you want to run everything from PV?

Financially there's no benefit - if you export 2 kW on one phase but import 3kW on another, you should only be billed for the net usage (i.e. 1kW of import, 0kW of export). no need to balance the phases.

 

There's already numerous threads that cover this if you'd like to pop over to one of those instead :-)  e.g. 

 

 

 

 

EDIT to partially answer my own question: if you care about off-grid backup with self-sufficiency from PV, then of course phase balancing gets far more important. (But frankly I have put not thought into that, and have no idea if off-grid 3 phase house is even viable or worthwhile)

Edited October 20, 2020 by joth

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Only 1 planet Earth . Only took mankind a few hundred years to screw it . Time we all did a bit more than just separate glass from plastic with our recycling .

Green rant over ?

So you’re aware of the environmental impact of mining and processing the lithium that has gone into your “green” batteries ..??

 

 

[Pocster]

7 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So you’re aware of the environmental impact of mining and processing the lithium that has gone into your “green” batteries ..??

 

 

Ffs yes

Are you aware of your pointless responses wasting electricity and the earths resources ?

Are you aware of the harmful effects of driving your car and its manufacturing?

Are you aware of the products you don’t recycle that could be ?

Are you aware of the amount of gas and electric you waste or use inefficiently ?

 

etc etc etc . I can do 300 pages of this if you want .

 

What’s your point ? . Moving ‘forward’ technically means also maybe a step backwards ?

 

Let’s stop manufacturing lithium batteries then ? Will that solve the problem ?

 

What do you want ? Apart from annoying me ? . Though baiting and deliberate arguing were not allowed on this forum .

[ProDave]

Contrary to what you think, I am not against reneweable energy and trying to do the right thing for the planet. Why else have I spent the last 5 years building this low energy house heated by an air source heat pump and partly powered by solar PV.

 

But I only do what makes sense. Unlike perhaps some, I don't have bottom less pockets (very empty pockets in fact) so all spending has to be justified.

 

I have 4kWp of solar PV. that is all I can have "for free"  the DNO have made it pretty clear there will be a network upgrade charge if I want to install more, in spite of the fact very little of what i generate actually gets exported.  One day I might enquire what that upgrade cost will be if I want to install some more, but I believe I have to actually pay them some money just to give me a quote.

 

As things stand by using the big domestic appliances in the daytime and diverting surplus solar PV to water heating, I am self using 95% of what my panels generate.  That does not leave much to store in batteries, though arguably storing in batteries to later power the ASHP to heat DHW might be better use that just dumping it to a resistance water heater.

 

So I keep on doing the sums.  I work out how much I could save off my electricity bill ig I could use the surplus "free" solar PV that might otherwise go to waste.  Then I look at the cost of the equipment to do that, and the best I have found would be a payback time of 10 years, by which time the batteries are probably at end of life and need replacing, so I then replace them and the payback time starts re counting.

 

One day I hope batteries will have evolved to have longer lives and be cheaper, and it might be worth it, but we are not there yet.

 

As to variable tariffs like Agile.  I would not personally choose one.  I don't want to be stuck paying 30p per kWh just to cook dinner if I have the audacity to want to eat in the early evening.  That's where the batteries help of course, but it is a self created problem by choosing such a variable tariff.

 

[Pocster]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Contrary to what you think, I am not against reneweable energy and trying to do the right thing for the planet. Why else have I spent the last 5 years building this low energy house heated by an air source heat pump and partly powered by solar PV.

 

But I only do what makes sense. Unlike perhaps some, I don't have bottom less pockets (very empty pockets in fact) so all spending has to be justified.

 

I have 4kWp of solar PV. that is all I can have "for free"  the DNO have made it pretty clear there will be a network upgrade charge if I want to install more, in spite of the fact very little of what i generate actually gets exported.  One day I might enquire what that upgrade cost will be if I want to install some more, but I believe I have to actually pay them some money just to give me a quote.

 

As things stand by using the big domestic appliances in the daytime and diverting surplus solar PV to water heating, I am self using 95% of what my panels generate.  That does not leave much to store in batteries, though arguably storing in batteries to later power the ASHP to heat DHW might be better use that just dumping it to a resistance water heater.

 

So I keep on doing the sums.  I work out how much I could save off my electricity bill ig I could use the surplus "free" solar PV that might otherwise go to waste.  Then I look at the cost of the equipment to do that, and the best I have found would be a payback time of 10 years, by which time the batteries are probably at end of life and need replacing, so I then replace them and the payback time starts re counting.

 

One day I hope batteries will have evolved to have longer lives and be cheaper, and it might be worth it, but we are not there yet.

 

As to variable tariffs like Agile.  I would not personally choose one.  I don't want to be stuck paying 30p per kWh just to cook dinner if I have the audacity to want to eat in the early evening.  That's where the batteries help of course, but it is a self created problem by choosing such a variable tariff.

 

Agree payback is around 10 years

My train of though is that by that time batteries would of improved and be cheaper . So yes you could rightly argue the ‘pay back’ process starts again . In those 10 years until then my carbon footprint would of been reduced significantly- that’s better for the planet . If I break even in 10 years ; nothing has been lost financially. 

[Pocster]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

 

 

As to variable tariffs like Agile.  I would not personally choose one.  I don't want to be stuck paying 30p per kWh just to cook dinner if I have the audacity to want to eat in the early evening.  That's where the batteries help of course, but it is a self created problem by choosing such a variable tariff.

 

Agile isn’t for everyone. I think it’s capped at 35p . You can freely swap tariff anytime to their GO tariff . Lots of people obsessively swap between them to get the best rate . I’m sure by mitigating high load appliances to different times of day makes a reasonable saving . Agile is ‘beta’ , so you are a test pilot . How long before the big 6 copy this rather than on peak / off peak rates with no benefit to the consumer on the wholesale price . I’ve argued the toss with suppliers when they say ‘price is based on crude oil futures market ‘ - to have crude drop . Then 12 months later my price is the same or more . Or when 1 of the big 6 increase prices and the other 5 follow . It’s just a cartel - I hate it . I’m the consumer - I want choice - not rigged pricing . It’s about time the energy market got a fecking big kick - I applaud octopus for doing that .

[Thorfun]

I think this whole green issue isn't a competition and shouldn't be treated as such.

 

it's about the many doing it imperfectly rather than a few doing it perfectly.

 

kudos to anyone who is doing whatever they can and I'm sure we'd all like to do more. for example, I'd love to have been able to afford an MBC twin-stud cellulose filled timber frame but just couldn't afford it. so I made a compromise to use some PIR in the wall make-up to get U-values where my ongoing energy consumption is reduced to offset the carbon in the PIR. it's not perfect but every little bit helps.

 

 

[Pocster]

10 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I think this whole green issue isn't a competition and shouldn't be treated as such.

 

it's about the many doing it imperfectly rather than a few doing it perfectly.

 

kudos to anyone who is doing whatever they can and I'm sure we'd all like to do more. for example, I'd love to have been able to afford an MBC twin-stud cellulose filled timber frame but just couldn't afford it. so I made a compromise to use some PIR in the wall make-up to get U-values where my ongoing energy consumption is reduced to offset the carbon in the PIR. it's not perfect but every little bit helps.

 

 

You phrased it far better than I could . Anyone doing any ‘bit’ is better than nothing . Some of us try to achieve more in this respect even at financial cost .

Love to see your quote total for 3 phase , pv mega panels and 3 Tesla batteries . That lot might make your car look cheap ?

[Pocster]

Nah nah !

I don’t care 

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, pocster said:

Nah nah !

I don’t care 

I've a feeling I'll be staring at that app constantly if/when I get my setup!

[Pocster]

Just now, Thorfun said:

I've a feeling I'll be staring at that app constantly if/when I get my setup!

Oh don’t worry ! I intend to access all this info into my HA

My plan to make it SWMBO friendly ( a challenge if ever there was one ) was a simple traffic light system .

So red don’t put anything else on

amber use if you must

Green go for it 

 

Have this simple system on my wall mounted iPads then get SWMBO to check before use . Also have it email me if we change defcom levels so I can interrogate SWMBO about what she has just turned on .

[Thorfun]

Just now, pocster said:

Oh don’t worry ! I intend to access all this info into my HA

My plan to make it SWMBO friendly ( a challenge if ever there was one ) was a simple traffic light system .

So red don’t put anything else on

amber use if you must

Green go for it 

 

Have this simple system on my wall mounted iPads then get SWMBO to check before use . Also have it email me if we change defcom levels so I can interrogate SWMBO about what she has just turned on .

love it

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

As to variable tariffs like Agile

And they can discontinue the service if they like, which could work out costly.

 

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

So you’re aware of the environmental impact of mining and processing the lithium that has gone into your “green” batteries

I am, not sure you are.

[Thedreamer]

On the environmental impact from the production of the batteries is that not the same for anybody who has an electric vehicle? 

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

Also, I'm ok with a 3-phase car charger but why would I need a 3-phase AHSP? aren't they a lot more expensive that 1-phase? what benefit would that extra expense give me?

 

Don't know about cost for ASHPs but 3P motors are smaller for a given kW size, simpler and have a lower component count. No capacitors or centrifugal switch. Less to go wrong therefore.

 

After the motor isn't an ASHP just a compressor and pump? Can't see it being fussed what's driving it. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Onoff

[Thorfun]

@pocster how much did your battery charge today? I look forward to regular updates on this. I probably shouldn't be but I'm super excited for you!

[Pocster]

10 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

@pocster how much did your battery charge today? I look forward to regular updates on this. I probably shouldn't be but I'm super excited for you!

Too be fair it did surprisingly well . Min is 5% charge retained for backup . We got to 25% - so 20% on a overcast day with the odd 10 minutes of limited sunshine .

It tells me in the stats that I managed 48% self sufficiency.

So given the crap weather and time of year I was pleasantly surprised! 

[Thorfun]

9 minutes ago, pocster said:

Too be fair it did surprisingly well . Min is 5% charge retained for backup . We got to 25% - so 20% on a overcast day with the odd 10 minutes of limited sunshine .

It tells me in the stats that I managed 48% self sufficiency.

So given the crap weather and time of year I was pleasantly surprised! 

that's pretty darn cool. 

[Nickfromwales]

10 hours ago, PeterW said:

Actually it isn’t.. it’s a fallacy as the grid frequency is driving your inverter phasing so if you hit the main isolator on your grid connection the lights will go out ....

 

 

Only at 100W or so. Give the guy a break lol  

[Nickfromwales]

6 hours ago, pocster said:

Oh don’t worry ! I intend to access all this info into my HA

My plan to make it SWMBO friendly ( a challenge if ever there was one ) was a simple traffic light system .

So red don’t put anything else on

amber use if you must

Green go for it 

 

Have this simple system on my wall mounted iPads then get SWMBO to check before use . Also have it email me if we change defcom levels so I can interrogate SWMBO about what she has just turned on .

Dead man walking......