Extension- Last Stuff.

[Ferdinand]

A note on doors @zoothorn.

 

If it turns out you are going to need to trim it top or bottom, then each type of door has a number in the specification telling you how much you can trim top and bottom.

Some of them are just a few mm, whilst others go up to about 60mm in total, and potentially more if the door is a single slab of wood or a uniform board.

 

The ones which can be trimmed more will be rather more money than your cheap doors, but be aware that that can be done if you need.

 

F

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

@Onoff ok thanks for that. But I'm waaay off thinking of the door, aren't I? I mean Ive got to fit the frame 1st which will take me 2 weeks.

 

I dont know if I'm buying a 'frame kit' as I see all bits in a packet.. & just cutting a chunk off the btm ? (looking briiefly at one of these kits I see the top bit interlocks with two upright sides.. so my train of thought was you cut off the btm to make it fit: Ive no idea if this is the right approach).

 

Or bc I don't have a regular H opening, does this mean I'm forced to make all the frame bits myself-? is that what your sketch is about? does my opening W alone mean I can or can't go for a kit-? all these pg1 basics Ive yet to sort out answers to. Your info above is like 3 steps on! (remember it takes me 10x as long as anyone on here, bc its all new to me, every little thing).

 

I do understand the door edge trim/ as I hate the doors on offer "solid wood" bllx etc.. I was thinking of making one: t&g whatnots & two diagonal brace thingies on the back & a straight one across middle & black big hinge doo-da's: actually my cttg doors here upstairs like so, look homemade, not too tricky (I hope) & not bad/ my effort would blend in at least! then I can trim the hell out of the b'stard.

 

I was suggesting you get the door as I'd be surprised / impressed if you could put a frame in super square. I couldn't.

 

You will likely end up trimming the door so it's wider at the top than the bottom or vice versa. Might not be too bad.

 

With the door on the hinge jam and the hinge jam loosely screwed to the wall you can fiddle with the head piece and other jam to your heart's content. 

[PeterW]

Buy a 1930’s reclaim solid door off Facebook marketplace or similar. They go for £10-30 round me and there are loads. 
 

Joy of old doors is you can trim the life out of them as they are solid wood. Leave enough to get a latch barrel in or go old school and fit a rim latch. 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

I was suggesting you get the door as I'd be surprised / impressed if you could put a frame in super square. I couldn't.

 

You will likely end up trimming the door so it's wider at the top than the bottom or vice versa. Might not be too bad.

 

With the door on the hinge jam and the hinge jam loosely screwed to the wall you can fiddle with the head piece and other jam to your heart's content. 

 Hi Onoff.

 

b b but Im still 3 pages behind you. I don't know why you're mentioning squareness/ I cant relate it to anything I said/ no idea what tangent you're on. Of course I understand the principle of something square is better, & a door frame esp so (but how is this relevant to anything you, or I said-?).

 

Anyway trimming the door- Id always envisaged Id have to do this. But surely this is the easy bit. I dont know jams & head pieces & terms yet.

 

--

 

1st I need to establish: am I best looking at a "kit" (I dont know the term: I go into jewsons, & I see a long packet, it has 'door frame' on the sticker, it has a series of timber pieces in packet parts of the frame, obviously. I go 'ooh' I'll need one of those) if this is the right word. Is buying this the correct idea??

 

Or am I best making the parts of such a "kit'" instead entirely from scratch? I assume 2 side bits & a top bit as very pg1 basics.

 

You're still on page 3. Im still looking at the book wondering if its the right one, I haven't even opened it yet.  thx zoot.

[Onoff]

Make one looks like you said?

 

http://woodarchivist.com/1164-making-ledge-brace-doors/

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Buy a 1930’s reclaim solid door off Facebook marketplace or similar. They go for £10-30 round me and there are loads. 
 

Joy of old doors is you can trim the life out of them as they are solid wood. Leave enough to get a latch barrel in or go old school and fit a rim latch. 

 

Ok thanks Peter for the idea. But unless Im mistaken, isn't the very basics door frame 1st > door second/ to fit it?

 

Or are you suggesting 1st buying a door, then going onwarfds from there/ maybe making frame to fit it.. I don't know.

 

I bought a 'solid hardwood wood' door from howdens. Got it back & was it solid wood? was it bllx. wood veneered (mixed-sh*te core). couldn't trim what was needed, bowed, & expanded approx 2cm & veneer coming away already, in 3 yrs. total junk. I dont think your suggesting one of these, but anything 'solid wood' now you see & I have zero confidence it actually is.

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Make one looks like you said?

 

http://woodarchivist.com/1164-making-ledge-brace-doors/

 

That's what I was thinking of- another great link thanks Onoff (cant make head nor tail of your 6-word sentence tho). zH

[Onoff]

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

That's what I was thinking of- another great link thanks Onoff (cant make head nor tail of your 6-word sentence tho). 

 

Should have read "Make one like you said?"

[PeterW]

21 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ok thanks Peter for the idea. But unless Im mistaken, isn't the very basics door frame 1st > door second/ to fit it?

 

Or are you suggesting 1st buying a door, then going onwarfds from there/ maybe making frame to fit it.. I don't know.

So I’ve no idea on the dimension you need, but I’m talking of solid doors like were  made 80

years ago. This sort of thing. 
 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154148379979

 

Depending on the size you would add a frame

of 4x1 as a lining then plant a stop on it using 1x1/2. Not that difficult to do and you can pack it to fit the opening. 

 

[zoothorn]

8 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Should have read "Make one like you said?"

 

Aha gotcha. Ok- then this is what I'll do: as the other 2 bed doors are like so, & good'ish diy'd, I can use them to copy.. also they're the same then.

 

But afaik, the door is the 2nd, the frame is made 1st (I can only assume). I'm still back where I was tho, the 1st frame Q.

 

Do you have any idea what I'm talking about by a 'frame kit' I see in jewsons? its not the right term, no, but its a packet with frame parts in.

[zoothorn]

8 hours ago, PeterW said:

So I’ve no idea on the dimension you need, but I’m talking of solid doors like were  made 80

years ago. This sort of thing. 
 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154148379979

 

Depending on the size you would add a frame

of 4x1 as a lining then plant a stop on it using 1x1/2. Not that difficult to do and you can pack it to fit the opening. 

 

 

I think its going to be too costly to even transport it, even if I found one locally tho Peter. Id like a proper thicker solid door like this.. but I have to compromise.

 

I'm also concerned such a door would be too heavy, considering my opening structure a frame will attatch to. I'll get to this with a pic: this is my 2nd Q.

 

I will try understanding the plant stopping later, but 1st: I think you might be referring to making a frame, rather than buying one-?

 

thx zoot.

[PeterW]

They aren’t that heavy to be honest. The only side you have to fix firm is the hinge side so put that on the side that is strongest. 

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

They aren’t that heavy to be honest. The only side you have to fix firm is the hinge side so put that on the side that is strongest. 

 

 Ok will see if anything near available, but I still have to transport it.. adding £30 min.

 

Peter have you any idea what I'm talking about if I say a 'frame kit'?

[zoothorn]

Just to recap. I have 1970mm opening H. What is the minimum top part a frame can be? I'm gonna be struggling for H, yet again here.. I must factor this in with any frame chosen.

 

On a side note, my UPVC french doors, frame installed/ glass on etc/ finished.. from sill to frame top (excluding the 100mm frame bit you step over) so the frame part my head almost skims from the sill my feet are on = 1870mm. Can anyone comment on this figure?

Edited October 24, 2020 by zoothorn

[PeterW]

A standard door is 6’6” or 1982mm. The head frame is normally 25mm like the rest of the frame so your door would need to be 1945mm which is fine giving a 10mm gap at the bottom for carpet/uneaven floors etc. 
 

You are referring to a door lining kit and tbh you’re pretty handy with wood tools so I wouldn’t bother unless you need to. This is the sort of thing, £15-20 depending on where you get one. 
 

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Softwood-Internal-Door-Lining-for-686+762mm-Doors-27-5-x-108mm-x-2-01m/p/200351

 

 

[Onoff]

9 minutes ago, PeterW said:

A standard door is 6’6” or 1982mm. The head frame is normally 25mm like the rest of the frame so your door would need to be 1945mm which is fine giving a 10mm gap at the bottom for carpet/uneaven floors etc. 
 

You are referring to a door lining kit and tbh you’re pretty handy with wood tools so I wouldn’t bother unless you need to. This is the sort of thing, £15-20 depending on where you get one. 
 

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Softwood-Internal-Door-Lining-for-686+762mm-Doors-27-5-x-108mm-x-2-01m/p/200351

 

Exactly the frames I used in my bathroom. On one though I modified the head piece to suit a 610mm wide (again Wickes) door. It just meant trimming the length and cutting another through housing for the jam to fit into.

 

The head and jams are 27.5mm thick not 25mm btw.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Onoff

[PeterW]

56 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ok will see if anything near available, but I still have to transport it.. adding £30 min.

A door will go in a car - just tie the hatch down ..! Just checked my area and there are about 30 being sold on marketplace and gumtree. You could make a ledged and braced door but it wikl

cost you £30-40 just in timber. 

[Gone West]

49 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Just to recap. I have 1970mm opening H. What is the minimum top part a frame can be?

TBH if I was short of height space I wouldn't put a lining in at the top just a door stop straight onto the plasterwork of the opening. Just fit a bit of 4x2 or whatever is needed on the sides to hang the door on.

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

TBH if I was short of height space I wouldn't put a lining in at the top just a door stop straight onto the plasterwork of the opening. Just fit a bit of 4x2 or whatever is needed on the sides to hang the door on.

 

Or no nails a bit of 6mm ply to the underside of the lintel if it looks a bit rough. This instead of using the header supplied with the frame kit.

[joe90]

If it were me I would get some 100mm x 30mm PSE (planed square edge) (or close) timber and fix it into the opening where you want the frame, then you can decorate, skirting etc and consider building a door or sourcing one afterwards, depends if you want to match other existing doors or go different, ledge and brace doors are very “cottage” if that’s what you want.

[Onoff]

Let's think cheap! ? Transport is maybe a problem. What have you got lying around?

 

You could make a good approximation of a cottage style door out of sheet material. 

 

I think you said the doors had to be 610mm wide. You could get two out of an 8x4 sheet of 18mm MDF or ply. You could route some mock T&G lines on the front face. If not quite wide enough add a glued and pinned strip of softwood up the side. 

 

Similarly you could get one "door" out of an 8x2 T&G floorboard if you had one lying spare. Again glue and pin a softwood edge on. Again route the front. 

 

In both cases add ledges and braces to the back. Put T hinges into these.  Prime and paint. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Onoff

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

A standard door is 6’6” or 1982mm. The head frame is normally 25mm like the rest of the frame so your door would need to be 1945mm which is fine giving a 10mm gap at the bottom for carpet/uneaven floors etc. 
 

You are referring to a door lining kit and tbh you’re pretty handy with wood tools so I wouldn’t bother unless you need to. This is the sort of thing, £15-20 depending on where you get one. 
 

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Softwood-Internal-Door-Lining-for-686+762mm-Doors-27-5-x-108mm-x-2-01m/p/200351

 

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Peter, I'm still confused. I understand your 1st 3 sentences. But I don't know if sentence 4, and the link, refers to the 'frame kit' Ive been trying to ask about (& you say don't bother with: so is your link referring to something you are -not- suggesting... or something you -are- suggesting ?).

 

The link looks like a frame kit. Its got 3 sections, rather than constructing the individual parts myself: I presume it might come in a packet: which is exactly what I see in jewsons: which is called a frame kit. But you say I shouldn't bother with a frame kit.

 

Can you see why I'm confused?

[PeterW]

I’m trying to make sure we are referring to the same thing ..!!

 

The problem with the “frame kits” as you refer to them is they are a standard size. They will take a door at 838mm or 762mm. The trenching cuts in the head dictate this. If you aren’t going to be able to use the standard sizes then it’s quicker and cheaper to do what @joe90 and me are saying and make your own. 
 

So let’s start with basics. 
 

Measure across the gap where the door is going  at the top, middle and bottom and post the dimensions. 

[zoothorn]

38 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I’m trying to make sure we are referring to the same thing ..!!

 

The problem with the “frame kits” as you refer to them is they are a standard size. They will take a door at 838mm or 762mm. The trenching cuts in the head dictate this. If you aren’t going to be able to use the standard sizes then it’s quicker and cheaper to do what @joe90 and me are saying and make your own. 
 

So let’s start with basics. 
 

Measure across the gap where the door is going  at the top, middle and bottom and post the dimensions. 

 

Ok that's great. But I'm still confused about your link. Can we just clear this up.

 

1) is this a frame kit?

2) are you adding this wickes link as suggesting this as a good thing for me

3) are you adding it suggesting that it is a frame kit, and therefore not good for me.

 

You see.. it looks for all intents & purposes, like the very frame kit you just said not to buy (great: this is the start I needed) & to make your own. Im further confused by suggesting make my own, IF by the looks of it the wickes link is already made. Maybe its not then-?

[joe90]

The problem (I found) with frame kits with no nail on beading is if the frame is out of square a little the door won’t fit right, I like plant on door stops and these can be planted on to fit the door after it’s hung in the frame.

Edited October 24, 2020 by joe90