zoothorn Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, joe90 said: Needs heat and fresh air to stop (and regular cleaning). Hopefully your heat will get better soon. But as its freezing out, last thing i want is fresh air.. especially if ive spent 6 hrs trying desperately to get the room warm. Even opening/ closing door to next room i do fast to keep heat in. This ventilation thing another facet i cant understand. Ive spent alot of effort to seal the room airtight, foil tape etc, only for the advice then to be to have a vent in the window upvc frame.. the very opposite of sealing the room. Anyway.. i was just wondering if the mould was cold bridging, therefore i must have inadequately built it, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 13 minutes ago, zoothorn said: But as its freezing out, last thing i want is fresh air.. especially if ive spent 6 hrs trying desperately to get the room warm. Even opening/ closing door to next room i do fast to keep heat in. This ventilation thing another facet i cant understand. Ive spent alot of effort to seal the room airtight, foil tape etc, only for the advice then to be to have a vent in the window upvc frame.. the very opposite of sealing the room. Anyway.. i was just wondering if the mould was cold bridging, therefore i must have inadequately built it, somehow. Install Mvhr ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, zoothorn said: But as its freezing out, last thing i want is fresh air.. especially if ive spent 6 hrs trying desperately to get the room warm. Even opening/ closing door to next room i do fast to keep heat in. This ventilation thing another facet i cant understand. Ive spent alot of effort to seal the room airtight, foil tape etc, only for the advice then to be to have a vent in the window upvc frame.. the very opposite of sealing the room. Anyway.. i was just wondering if the mould was cold bridging, therefore i must have inadequately built it, somehow. You need ventilation in a house. If you want to ventilate it without letting lots of cold air in, then you need mvhr which is what most of us fit in our new builds. This gives you constant fresh air while recovering most of the heat from the exhaust air that would otherwise be wasted. Just blocking up all ventilation to stop cold getting in, is not going to help the situation. The more I know about buildings now, the more I feel the best thing we could do with a lot of the UK housing stock is flatten it and rebuild properly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFDIY Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, pocster said: Install Mvhr ?? If the loft hatch was anything to go by, I think the internet isn't big enough to cope with the amount of pages the thread might take Edited January 31, 2021 by JFDIY 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, JFDIY said: If the loft hatch was anything to go by, I think the internet isn't big enough to cope with the amount of pages the thread might take Nonsense ! . Retro fitting mvhr would be child’s play ! . @zoothorn has admitted he’s tried to make everything airtight so condensation will be an issue . But yes a new thread and a few TB of extra storage required ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Zoot, FFS listen to people! You DO need fresh air period. Your house is very similar to mine in many ways, old in parts, new in others, badly insulated, bloody draughty etc. Lots of different construction methods. Fitting MVHR to an existing property is doable but a balls ache for many reasons for the most part. The key to efficient MVHR is good airtightness and good insulation, far better than what you will I'm sure grasp as good until you get the concept. And btw there is no real argument against what are indisputable facts. So the concept of MVHR, mechanical ventilation and heat recovery is what it stands for. Stale, moist, germ and dust laden air is pumped out of the house. Fresh, yes often cold, air is sucked in from the outside. The two streams of air don't meet as such but pass over a heat exchanger. The heat from the outgoing stale air is used to warm the fresh air coming in. This is a simplified view of how MVHR works: Now you can do this for the whole house which involves running ducts up in the ceiling (difficult in an existing build) or per room with a wall / ceiling mounted unit for just that room. With good airtightness and insulation they're around 90% efficient. That lost 10% you'll save that in other ways and health benefits. The single room, on the wall are a bit less efficient. This mould issue wasn't an issue "in the old days" as the construction as in doors and windows was inherently draughty. Another option is called positive input ventilation. This is atypical: https://www.vent-axia.com/positive-input-ventilation It's a case of making the best if what you've got. To do that as best as you possibly could costs. Edited January 31, 2021 by Onoff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 With your cabinet building skills and low budget you could even build you own MVHR unit! https://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/DIYHRV/DIYHRV.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 hours ago, zoothorn said: Ive got a significant black mould & condensation thing happening at french doors.. Looking at that picture showing the condensation around the edge of the glazing and on the wall next to the frame suggests to me that the frames are not very good quality. The only way to keep the condensation at bay is to keep the temperature up in the house and ventilate to reduce the humidity. A dehumidifier would reduce the humidity and provide some heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 hours ago, zoothorn said: ... I've got a significant black mould & condensation thing happening at french doors.. ... That French door looks more like a suicide door. Step out of that door and you land on the car roof. Maybe its the angle at which the image was taken? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said: That French door looks more like a suicide door. Step out of that door and you land on the car roof. Maybe its the angle at which the image was taken? I suspect after our visit we will be shown that way out ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, pocster said: I suspect after our visit we will be shown that way out ... You'll be begging to jump! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, Onoff said: You'll be begging to jump! ? No I’ll be begging to be pushed . I can’t do heights so my natural fear would prevent me jumping . “Please push me . It’s ok I forgive you . Say goodbye to my wife . The walk on glazing is yours “ < push > ☠️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said: That French door looks more like a suicide door. Step out of that door and you land on the car roof. Maybe its the angle at which the image was taken? It is. At pg 100 fk it im jumping. My mistake of build, is having doors open out. So now income is ruined by covid ,and brexit, i cant put in a cheap juliet balcony now my budgets crashed & get it signed off by PeterW. Gotta be sizeable timber job. But doable if i can build my cabin base, surely, but not looking fwd to it. Be ace once done tho, views are terrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, zoothorn said: It is. At pg 100 fk it im jumping. My mistake of build, is having doors open out. So now income is ruined by covid ,and brexit, i cant put in a cheap juliet balcony now my budgets crashed & get it signed off by PeterW. Gotta be sizeable timber job. But doable if i can build my cabin base, surely, but not looking fwd to it. Be ace once done tho, views are terrific. Yeah I reckon a balcony of some sort might be required ! . Just bolt nice timber across the door exterior; I.e make a feature out it Sorry ! Just re read doors open out !!! ????☠️ Edited January 31, 2021 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 40 minutes ago, Onoff said: You'll be begging to jump! ? Thanks for explanation of mvhr. Christ im never gonna understand this so its not an option, had no idea my mould would elicit complicated system suggestions as remedy. Ive had enough of complicated systems. So I have to put up with it is is then, but isnt it like PeterS hints to, poor avenue for cold to be entering? I had thought this was all it signified tbh. I was just wondering why after a fairly thorough internal build i did with all the help, such a weak point/ cold avenue could be. Maybe like Peter says its just due to cheap frames.. they are the cheapest I could go for, build all on a budget etc. I had no idea mvhr or any 'system' would be mentioned instead of 'cold bridging' paths.. & rather thrown me into yet more confusion as a result. So best i not ask anymore on it! Thanks tho. Zh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, zoothorn said: Christ im never gonna understand this Try again...replace the word fluid with "air". This diagram is very conceptual but valid. Cold air gets drawn in from the outside (on the left). Your warm, moist, stinky air gets drawn from inside the house where it heats up the pipe carrying the incoming cold air. It's warmth spent in heating the pipe up, it exits outside the house as cold, stinky air: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Onoff said: replace the word fluid with "air" Air is a fluid. Don't anyone, ever mention that MVHR can be noisy at night. And it uses electricity, 24/7. [getting my tin hat on, then me coat] Edited January 31, 2021 by SteamyTea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Air is a fluid. Don't anyone, ever mention that MVHR can be noisy at night. And it uses electricity, 24/7. [getting my tin hat on, then me coat] So is cheese in a tube, bear in mind who I'm trying to explain it to! Be my guest in trying to get it across! ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Air is a fluid. Don't anyone, ever mention that MVHR can be noisy at night. And it uses electricity, 24/7. [getting my tin hat on, then me coat] Noisy at night @zoothorn buys some ear plugs ( left over from the ASHP ) electric? . He installs pv and a Tesla battery . Easy Peasey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Know what folks, this thread really does repay close examination. There are all sorts of jewels of information here: I'm thinking I ought to provide a thread summary. Maybe I could draft it in sections. Maybe I should do it over Lent, as penance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 19 hours ago, Onoff said: Please, keep the key. Bleed your rads annually. Ok thanks Onoff- very kind of you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 54 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Ok thanks Onoff- very kind of you. @Onoff sent me 500 quid . You just got a vent key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 13 hours ago, Onoff said: So is cheese in a tube, bear in mind who I'm trying to explain it to! Be my guest in trying to get it across! ? No that makes more sense, i get the gist after that diagram cheers. But if noisy at night.. & if it just runs 24/7 then im in a worse heap of sh* te. Looking at big window in this new bedroom, pools of water on the sill, same very bad condensation patches twds edges of panes too.. suggests PeterS idea of crap frames, seems to ring true as to cause. So if better frames, then i wouldnt see this condensation. Then mvhr wouldnt have been suggested. But just cos my frames are better surely doesnt mean my huff is any less.. so where me huff go? zh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 15 minutes ago, zoothorn said: No that makes more sense, i get the gist after that diagram cheers. But if noisy at night.. & if it just runs 24/7 then im in a worse heap of sh* te. Looking at big window in this new bedroom, pools of water on the sill, same very bad condensation patches twds edges of panes too.. suggests PeterS idea of crap frames, seems to ring true as to cause. So if better frames, then i wouldnt see this condensation. Then mvhr wouldnt have been suggested. But just cos my frames are better surely doesnt mean my huff is any less.. so where me huff go? zh I wonder how well they sealed your frames i.e. the gap between the frame and wall or whether they just slapped them in with bloody great gaps and no spray foam or expanding tape in there. Sadly more common than not that they do this. What's the detail like outside the doors/window? Have they siliconed where the roughcast render meets the window frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Cheese in a tube? What the cheese about (+ where me huff go) = Where'd the cheese go.. zoot tooter-schmoot. Edited February 1, 2021 by zoothorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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