Kingspan.. for a dummy.

[zoothorn]

[MJNewton]

Looking good! Nice and neat! 

[Onoff]

That looks good. 

 

I imagine a vcl, vapour control layer type membrane would help with air tightness?

 

The clever people will be along shortly. 

 

That socket under the window, which way do the wires run?

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

That looks good. 

 

I imagine a vcl, vapour control layer type membrane would help with air tightness?

 

The clever people will be along shortly. 

 

That socket under the window, which way do the wires run?

 

From the RHS timber is all I recall Onoff.

 

Be great if I dont actually need/ am forced to having this damn membrane tbh.

 

Anyway I'm eyeing up the insulation job in between the ceiling joists as job next.. be good to get the top room 'fully warm' asap.

[trialuser]

Hi, you seem to have double header and sole plates, can I ask if this was by design, or needed as a correction. I would like to double up on the header plate to spread the load of the upper walls and roof built off the platform floor joists which wont align with the studs of the ground floor walls (different centers). My understanding is that most of the shrinkage occurs within the plate timber thickness and I was worried doubling up may introduce a problem. Thanks

[zoothorn]

9 hours ago, trialuser said:

Hi, you seem to have double header and sole plates, can I ask if this was by design, or needed as a correction. I would like to double up on the header plate to spread the load of the upper walls and roof built off the platform floor joists which wont align with the studs of the ground floor walls (different centers). My understanding is that most of the shrinkage occurs within the plate timber thickness and I was worried doubling up may introduce a problem. Thanks

 

Hi trialuser-

 

assuming you're referring to the horizontal timbers above / below the kingspan: actually 3x each. Certainly not by design: builder had to be pressured to add as many as poss by me ("oh it'll be fine, we've got packers"), in order to steal every inch of both room heights.. cos he built the whole damn thing too low by a full foot relative to the plan [& gave me a series of BS excuses along the way to stop my enquiries, as to why: I still, & never will, know the answer].

 

Not happy about them: not only the Q never leaves as to why he just simply didn't get the Co to make the wall sections 6" higher each (let alone not make them -all- yet another 6" higher each.. which is simply & very clearly what's on the plan to build) to negate the need for any "packers" I'll never know; but also they mean less insulation possible, which resulted in the BCO upping the PIR wall thickness.. as well as introducing more cold @ the dividing floor area in particular (top master bedroom floor).

 

I'm trying to forget this fiasco tbh.

[BMcN]

No midheight dwangs? 

[zoothorn]

9 minutes ago, BMcN said:

No midheight dwangs? 

 

No what?

[AliG]

Are those ground floor ceiling joists or the underside of a flat roof that we can see in the pics?

 

If there is no roof insulation to go in between the joists, shouldn't there be PIR at the wall between the ends of the joists and also along the joist at the end?

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, BMcN said:

No midheight dwangs? 

 

If you're referring to my undercrackers.. no.

[zoothorn]

54 minutes ago, AliG said:

Are those ground floor ceiling joists or the underside of a flat roof that we can see in the pics?

 

If there is no roof insulation to go in between the joists, shouldn't there be PIR at the wall between the ends of the joists and also along the joist at the end?

 

There will be ceiling (not roof) insulation. The 1st 2 pics are the room above the 2nd 2 pics.

[dpmiller]

Pir between the joist ends would be good, yes.

[Big Jimbo]

Just now, dpmiller said:

Pir between the joist ends would be good, yes.

Or some fluffy stuff, which will be easier to fit. Anything, except leaving them empty. Nice job on cutting in the PIR. You are not as green, as you like to make out.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Big Jimbo said:

Or some fluffy stuff, which will be easier to fit. Anything, except leaving them empty. Nice job on cutting in the PIR. You are not as green, as you like to make out.

 

Fluff is going in/ always the plan.. but I do have some PIR offcuts: should I make best use of these in the area suggested, friction fitting in the ends of the joists ('above' the wall PIR).. or a waste of time/ just put fluff up to ends?

 

This area between the floors, with the timber "packers" adjacent above & below plus the dividing floor timber edges too.. is alot of timber/ not much PIR so surely the cold weak spot (IE in from walls).

[trialuser]

Thanks for the reply

[Declan52]

4 hours ago, zoothorn said:

 

No what?

Bits of timber that go horizontal across the wall in-between your vertical studs. They are there to help spread the load from above plus the studs wont twist.

[Hobbiniho]

Not sure if it has been said before but the window in that last photo, does not appear to be framed properly the cripple at the RHS of the window should go to the floor, there is also no lintel. Have you had this inspected by building control? 

[BMcN]

10 hours ago, zoothorn said:

 

No what?

As @Declan52 describes, timber midway down the studs to stop them twisting like this.

 

PIR will hopefully do the same job but not normal not to have some. 

[Roundtuit]

1 hour ago, BMcN said:

 

PIR will hopefully do the same job but not normal not to have some. 

 

Not sure that's universally the case; my frame had no noggins, just 140mm studs with factory fitted PIR and an OSB outer sheath. It looked similar to Zoot's (apart from the anomalies already mentioned!)

 

@zoothorn; I'd put a VCL in as it's not a biggie in terms of cost or extra work, although its going to be a bit messy where you cut the back boxes in. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Roundtuit

[zoothorn]

8 hours ago, Declan52 said:

Bits of timber that go horizontal across the wall in-between your vertical studs. They are there to help spread the load from above plus the studs wont twist.

 

Hi Declan. I'm not doing any structural alterations or additions, I'm not in any way qualified to do so, nor is it needed. The build has been done/ paid for.

 

The thread is simply my doing interior stuff (not altering anything my builder has done). Ive done the PIR, I just need to try & establish how to proceed.. at the moment I'm stuck/ stalled as I cannot understand the vcl situation IE the finishing bit to the PIR (or not/ is it needed-??)

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, BMcN said:

As @Declan52 describes, timber midway down the studs to stop them twisting like this.

 

PIR will hopefully do the same job but not normal not to have some. 

 

So are you suggesting I remove all the PIR job Ive just done in order to put these midway timbers in, & redoing all the PIR (at a cost of £700-£800) seriously?

 

I'm just asking help on my PIR job (& if a vcl is needed, I'd call this the finishing layer.. if its needed). I'm not needing to know how you might have done the build differently, or how you might think it better by redoing/ structural alterations: this is not helpful because I just cannot cope with a whole new avenue of information forming.

 

This build has been a massive trial & effort for me to understand the huge no. of stages & info: I need to simplify or I just cannot cope. I'm on a roll here, I just need help to proceed if you could lend some help.

 

The timberwork is done by my builder. I just need help on my PIR job, for now, just this. Thanks alot- zoot.

Edited March 4, 2020 by zoothorn

[MJNewton]

Don't fret; the PIR will provide all the stability and rigidity you require.

Edited March 4, 2020 by MJNewton

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Roundtuit said:

 

@zoot; I'd put a VCL in as it's not a biggie in terms of cost or extra work, although its going to be a bit messy where you cut the back boxes in. 

 

Hi Roundtuit.

 

Ok, I understand that it might not be a biggie to 95% of folks on here.. but to me whose never seen a vcl, totally on my own, it is a biggie (& it also might cost +£600.. I've no idea whatsoever).

 

I just need to establish if, in order to pass Building Regs, it is compulsory or not. Once I know the answer to this, I can research A) what it is B) how maybe to do it, & C) why on earth its needed at all.

[PeterW]

If you want a VCL then a £15 roll of plastic from Screwfix will do fine. 
 

If not, the world won’t end. 
 

I would just use foil tape over the joists and studs and be done with it - nice job to do, takes a couple of hours but you’ll end up with a nicely sealed up and shiny room ?

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, MJNewton said:

Don't fret; the PIR will provide all the stability and rigidity you require.

 

I'm not fretting MJN. Its done/ all timberwork's done no damn way is it changing: the PIR's done & it sure ain't changing either after 4 days of ballache work.

 

Whether or not it provides stability, on a structural basis.. I'll leave to others to discuss: for me though I couldn't give a hoot because I've had no indication from anyone beit my builder, my BCO, other builders, experienced amateur builders.. many who've not once mentioned any additional structural xyz is needed, or an additional idea/ nothing.. not even in passing conversation.

 

I have to draw a line now under the work done > & just please ask only if you could lend help on the work next to do so I can progress.

 

Gratefully- zoot.