Gone West Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, zoothorn said: At the moment they have condensation across the whole 4x panes all day long, so much so I cannot see out of them. We didn't have that problem in the old bungalow with the single and poor double glazing but we do have the same problem on our triple glazed windows in the new house when the weather is still and cold. It's worse on the north facing windows. As soon as the wind gets up it disappears. It's possibly worse for you because the stream could raise the humidity around the house. It means the windows are working well and it should only be a problem in certain weather conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, zoothorn said: ok understand that- which implies its not a vacuum as I thought then-? No vacuum, most likely air or Argon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 It's nothing to worry about so just park it. If you Google the issue it will come back with a proper scientific explanation. It's just due to a specific set of circumstances due to the time of the year basically. Would you rather it was on the inside or outside??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Declan52 said: It's nothing to worry about so just park it. ...ain't gonna happen! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (Even if there was a vacuum between the panes (which magically didn't shatter the glass) there'd still be significant heat transfer by radiation. Cutting that down a bit is what low-e (emissivity) coatings are about.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 15 hours ago, Declan52 said: It's nothing to worry about so just park it. If you Google the issue it will come back with a proper scientific explanation. It's just due to a specific set of circumstances due to the time of the year basically. Would you rather it was on the inside or outside??? sorry I don't understand, still. By saying google it what do i google? "windows condensation on outside after timer frame & block cladding complete but before inside xyz work"? or just google "condensation on outside windows panes?" Here (^) are you suggesting by saying "nothing to worry about/ park it" that the condensation will A) always be like this/ its nothing to worry about (in your opinion) so get used to it (in which case it is most certainly something to worry about if I can't see out the windows).. or B) that the condensation will be rectified --after-- I do xyz inside stuff (& so nothing to worry about now)..? "Would you rather it was on the inside or outside???" suggests I have to put up with it.. but the Q is will it be rectified by doing the xyz inside stuff, or no, it will remain as it is? FWIW my builder came round today (more lies to my face, sigh, this time about a door detail Im not happy about FFS) & I asked him if the condensation would be rectified by the xyz inside work & his answer was of course "yes". But he's a lying sod i don't trust a single word he says, hence i'm trying to get the answer on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 14 hours ago, Onoff said: ...ain't gonna happen! ? Onoff if I'm to be landed a bill of £1800 tomorrow being forced to pay within 2 weeks or the threat of a 10% surcharge added, for 2 windows & a pair of double doors covered in so much condensation they're almost fully obscured (& I cannot establish if they're meant to be like this, or not, & I see no-one else's windows & doors like this/ or have ever known any like this- certainly not new).. & I have a competant but also incredibly untrustworthy builder telling lies after lies to my face & starting to pressurise me on payment (after having made an awful mistake the consequenses of which I just have to live with apparantly &/ or all my fault according to quite a few on here, incredulously).. then its absolutely perfectly justifiable that I should be worried. Surely you could offer some help instead-? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 hours ago, zoothorn said: sorry I don't understand, still. By saying google it what do i google? "windows condensation on outside after timer frame & block cladding complete but before inside xyz work"? or just google "condensation on outside windows panes?" Here (^) are you suggesting by saying "nothing to worry about/ park it" that the condensation will A) always be like this/ its nothing to worry about (in your opinion) so get used to it (in which case it is most certainly something to worry about if I can't see out the windows).. or B) that the condensation will be rectified --after-- I do xyz inside stuff (& so nothing to worry about now)..? "Would you rather it was on the inside or outside???" suggests I have to put up with it.. but the Q is will it be rectified by doing the xyz inside stuff, or no, it will remain as it is? FWIW my builder came round today (more lies to my face, sigh, this time about a door detail Im not happy about FFS) & I asked him if the condensation would be rectified by the xyz inside work & his answer was of course "yes". But he's a lying sod i don't trust a single word he says, hence i'm trying to get the answer on here. Did you even do a search on Google before posting that spiel. A simple search on Google of "condensation on outside of double glazed windows"will bring you up a months worth of reading. So it's a case of the air outside containing a lot of water turning from a gas to a liquid on a cold pane of glass. If you have some way of reducing the humidity of the outside air or increasing the temperature of the outside pane of glass then there ain't nothing you can do. It's just one of them things that happens during this time of year and during the spring. Once the sun comes up and heats the window up it disappears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Mine's doin it at the moment. All of the panes, the whole house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 38 minutes ago, dpmiller said: Mine's doin it at the moment. All of the panes, the whole house. I think you need to complain to the builder then have all the windows replaced asap. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I've fallen out with him already this morning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Declan52 said: Did you even do a search on Google before posting that spiel. A simple search on Google of "condensation on outside of double glazed windows"will bring you up a months worth of reading. So it's a case of the air outside containing a lot of water turning from a gas to a liquid on a cold pane of glass. If you have some way of reducing the humidity of the outside air or increasing the temperature of the outside pane of glass then there ain't nothing you can do. It's just one of them things that happens during this time of year and during the spring. Once the sun comes up and heats the window up it disappears. As I said I didn't know what to google "condensdation on outside pane before doing inside xyz stuff".. or "condensation on outside pane". I still don't know what I'm asking: is the inside stuff not yet done.. going to rectify this situation.. or not? there are conflicting posts suggesting yes, then no. So I go from thinking ok fine I have the answer & it'll go once I do inside xyz stuff, to then another post suggests 'it just happens'. The sun was full on all of them all yesterday but they stayed totally full of condensation.. & there was some heat. And my existing windows only yards away are clear. So this is confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 44 minutes ago, zoothorn said: As I said I didn't know what to google "condensdation on outside pane before doing inside xyz stuff".. or "condensation on outside pane". I still don't know what I'm asking: is the inside stuff not yet done.. going to rectify this situation.. or not? there are conflicting posts suggesting yes, then no. So I go from thinking ok fine I have the answer & it'll go once I do inside xyz stuff, to then another post suggests 'it just happens'. The sun was full on all of them all yesterday but they stayed totally full of condensation.. & there was some heat. And my existing windows only yards away are clear. So this is confusing. There is nothing your builder can do to fix it. It happens to most good quality Windows at this time of year and in the spring when the outside conditions are roughly the same. Now you have 2 choices continue to fret and waste time over something that you can do nothing about or move on and try to get solutions to what ever else is stressing you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 39 minutes ago, zoothorn said: As I said I didn't know what to google "condensdation on outside pane before doing inside xyz stuff".. or "condensation on outside pane". Most would have just tried one (or both) and just seen what came up. And then tried something else if what they found didn't seem useful/relevant. It's not like there's a cost to a Google search. Bit unreasonable imo to badger people to spend their free time telling you exactly what search term to use. 39 minutes ago, zoothorn said: I still don't know what I'm asking: is the inside stuff not yet done.. going to rectify this situation.. or not? there are conflicting posts suggesting yes, then no. So I go from thinking ok fine I have the answer & it'll go once I do inside xyz stuff, to then another post suggests 'it just happens'. The sun was full on all of them all yesterday but they stayed totally full of condensation.. & there was some heat. And my existing windows only yards away are clear. So this is confusing. Your existing windows are potentially on heated rooms and/or single glazed? So the outer pane of the glass will be warmer. Doesn't need to be much warmer to make a difference. Nobody can tell you if the inside finishing work will definitely solve it. It might be once you have the heating on it warms the glass just enough. Or it might not. Or it might only work on some days. Depends on the exact combination of air temperature, humidity, air movement etc in the micro-climate right next to the window. What we can say is this is an expected behaviour of glazing in certain conditions, that becomes more common the more insulated (e.g. triple Vs double Vs single) the glazing. It's not a defect. Unless you want to heat up, or dry out, Wales, there isn't anything you can do to change it. You will just have to wait and see what it's like once the heating is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 23 hours ago, dpmiller said: double-glazed glass unit. Warmth from inside the room heats the outer glass, raising it's dewpoint. But does this suggest doing the inside stuff will make a difference? (or does whatever is between argon/ rayon/ whatever it is act as a conduit to heat to transmit to the outside pane.. unlike a vacuum). I'm not sure what thus sentence is saying. 3 minutes ago, Declan52 said: There is nothing your builder can do to fix it. It happens to most good quality Windows at this time of year and in the spring when the outside conditions are roughly the same. Now you have 2 choices continue to fret and waste time over something that you can do nothing about or move on and try to get solutions to what ever else is stressing you out. I'm not suggesting my builder do anything now I've established (I think from the replies) that my builder has -not- installed dud windows: my 1st concern. I was only ever asking if something can be done inside to affect it, or if it will clear once xyz done (my builder says "yes, exactly that" so is this yet another lie I wonder?). Why these 3 windows are the only ones I see around here that are like this (they're all better quality windows than mine, & not new) is reasonable to ask surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, andyscotland said: Most would have just tried one (or both) and just seen what came up. And then tried something else if what they found didn't seem useful/relevant. It's not like there's a cost to a Google search. Bit unreasonable imo to badger people to spend their free time telling you exactly what search term to use. Unless you want to heat up, or dry out, Wales, there isn't anything you can do to change it. You will just have to wait and see what it's like once the heating is on. Yes.. I could have trawled for hours without knowing exactly what I'm asking. So why ask anything on a build forum if you can spend all day trawling google?? because its a more succinct/ streamlined/ therefore sensible vehicle to use, especially if unclear about the Q to ask. So why are all my other windows not showing the same then?? If its to do with atmospherics & they're the same identical upvc type, only yards away on same side of house.. they all should show the same symptoms- shouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, zoothorn said: So why are all my other windows not showing the same then?? If its to do with atmospherics & they're the same identical upvc type, only yards away on same side of house.. they all should show the same symptoms- shouldn't they? They may look the same but is the glazing the same. The new ones may have different coatings or better gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, PeterStarck said: They may look the same but is the glazing the same. The new ones may have different coatings or better gas. Ok Peter- understand that yes good point. Ok I'll assume ok & whatever I'd have put in there the same would happen.. damned annoying though it totally ruins/ obscures my fab views through my new french doors, the primary reason for the upper room. I get final bill this afternoon.. so alot of stress waiting on this/ not a wink of sleep last night as I'm worried he'll u-turn on his word & charge me the £400/ £435 on the two 'tidy up jobs' I stipulated I wanted & he agreed to do in response to/ after I showed my clear dissatisafaction re. the build's big 'dip' issue c*cking up so much. Edited December 18, 2019 by zoothorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 You’re not comparing like with like when looking at what is happening in the other rooms. There are several variables at play here including: 1. the windows are different (and potentially better) 2. the orientation of the windows may be different 3. there is no heating in the room currently 4. Wales is cold and damp currently 5. You live next to a stream and you’ve said that the area is damp several times (see one of your quotes below) “the most pressing issue here: the area is -extremely- damp, I mean you get your (dry) post & it feels limp/ moisture laden. Constantly (bar this weird summer). Clothes always feel never quite dry.. you just get used to it, affected my lungs to begin with, but it is extreme. My Howden's back door -mdf clad in 1mm veneer, then coated copiously by me- bowed in a few months“ No one can tell you whether when you heat the room the condensation will reduce, but no one is surprised that it is happening either. You’ll need to wait and see but given where you live you are where you are, quite literally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, zoothorn said: Ok Peter- understand that yes good point. Ok I'll assume ok & whatever I'd have put in there the same would happen.. damned annoying though it totally ruins/ obscures my fab views through my new french doors, the primary reason for the upper room. Thinking about it, if when it's all done and you have the heating on inside this still proves to be a regular/permanent problem there might be some heath-robinson-esque things you could try. Possible ideas might include trying to source some of the electrically heated film they use on car windscreens, or maybe some sort of fan/channel affair delivering a curtain of gently heated or dehumidified air over the glass. I think there are also some anti-condensation sprays (I've seen them marketed for cars) if the window doesn't already have a coating on the glass. You basically need to increase the glazing temp, dry the air immediately beside it, or encourage the condensation to form into droplets and run off. Or some combination. You could have it triggered off a humidity/temp sensor once you identify the conditions where it happens. No idea if any of them would work and you'd definitely be at the mad boffin end of the spectrum, but if you find it a genuine issue it could make for an interesting project down in the shed if that sort of thing floats your boat. But I think most people just accept it as evidence that the window is doing a good job of keeping their expensive heat inside the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Or if it is bothering you that much then buy one of these. https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Power-Squeegees-Kitchen-Car-Green/dp/B07B7KVY1T/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=squidgy&qid=1576678080&sr=8-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I haven't been able to see out of our north facing triple glazed windows for days. The condensation on them is frozen. This is good news, it means there is not enough heat escaping through the windows to melt the ice, let alone evaporate the condensed water. The south facing ones are clear. Even a little bit of weak winter sunshine will heat the outside enough to clear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 8 hours ago, zoothorn said: The sun was full on all of them all yesterday but they stayed totally full of condensation.. & there was some heat. And my existing windows only yards away are clear. So this is confusing. Just checking; when you say 'totally full of condensation', do you mean that there is: a) simply just a lot of it on the outside of the outer pane (as we're all assuming), or b) there is condensation between the two panes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, ProDave said: I haven't been able to see out of our north facing triple glazed windows for days. The condensation on them is frozen. This is good news, it means there is not enough heat escaping through the windows to melt the ice, let alone evaporate the condensed water. The south facing ones are clear. Even a little bit of weak winter sunshine will heat the outside enough to clear them. Same with me - all our glazing is 3G passive standard which means it's doing the job. Remember as a kid chipping ice off the inside of the single glazing at home in winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 18/12/2019 at 16:29, Roundtuit said: Just checking; when you say 'totally full of condensation', do you mean that there is: a) simply just a lot of it on the outside of the outer pane (as we're all assuming), or b) there is condensation between the two panes? Hi Roundtuit- just alot on outside (if between then I'd know defective). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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