Marvin

Welcome. @hingerz Good to have knowledge on both sides. Working on my own home gave me great knowledge from working for others and how to overcome problems. However, I have learnt masses from the posts here, and been pleased with the gentle responses to my silly questions. (Questions I didn't realise were silly! In case your wondering).

Welcome. @CJT1963 I'm sure posters here will be helpful and hopefully we will also gain from your knowledge as well. Marvin

HI @Tom I beg to differ about the energy saving. For 100m2 ours runs at about 17Watts per hour. Call it 20watts times 24 hours a day. So half a kWh a day. During the winter we have witnessed the outside temperature of about 5C air, passing through our MVHR and the heat from the air being expelled, heat the outside air up to 19C before it enters the room at 30 litres a second. Someone who knows the maths will tell me how much energy saving there is on heating 108m3 of air from 5C to 19C per hour. I bet its not half a kWh per day! Thing is you don't see the heat your not using.

Certainly Rainfuel may aid production of electricity in the future but by reading the figures its going to be more expensive.

Impressive

It could be the design allows for a single story construction on the allotment side and a 2 story construction on the housing side.. With a big sloping roof...

Assuming the evidence supplied is not fake as in several recent situations.

I'm getting older, and prefer sockets that I plug into at a height where I don't fall down trying to reach them and that's why ours are between 450mm and 1200mm in our "forever home".

Unfortunately, even thinking, discussing or replying to this involves my baggage. We all have it. Manipulating the baggage is the key to control. I know this. Trump knows this. Putin knows this and so do the markets. The markets are run by greed and fear. (as we are) And back to @AliGs valid point: Electricity prices will go up and down related to the reasons above. (and in the long term rise). Talking about the relative price compared with previous years doesn't take into account the many different things we now have to shell out from our income, that we didn't then. Why oh why are we paying shareholders so we can drink water and have electricity..

Is this so the inside can be convert into habitable space?

Hi @SBMS However the opposite way would be interesting: Given all the details one could calculate what the energy use should be, however there could be 40 questions to answer.

= Supply and demand in simple terms.

Ok. The energy cost issue will be guided by supply and demand.

Hi @SBMS Sorry to say I've gone down this road before. The amount of variables are so many that extrapolating any information from combined results will not give you anything except the range of results, not the reason for the results. There are endless reasons for the same results from different setups and endless reasons for different results from the same setups. Probably 20 or 30 basic reasons.

Hi @oldkettle I apologise if you feel offended. That was not my intention. However, honestly the general public do not always make the right decision, and nor do the government. And now to Covid. I can only get covid from another human being (directly or indirectly) so I would appreciate it if people tried to protect me from the disease. I am not impressed when other people intentionally threaten my health and possibly my life.

This is true if the result only effects the person making the decision, otherwise you end up with someone who choose to instruct an army to kill lots of people, because they don't care if its good for them, and certainly don't care about you or I. There's a word for a person like this. Back to drink driving, I don't care if you die drink driving, as long as you don't harm other people. Unfortunately that is often not the case. So to protect the rest of us I suggest making it law that you can't drink and drive. Now who's pure evil?

That's why, in all honesty, people shouldn't be given a referendum option.

Hi @oldkettle In response to your thoughts: I'm glad I can still make people laugh. I did not take into account prices relative to income. Should I have done? Greed is neither good or bad but measured by how it is used. A bit like nuclear power. Sorry kWh of what exactly are we discussing? If its oil, I think at the start of this year it was a bit lower than now. (although we could also be talking about suger) so at the moment I am right. You may observe that Brian Kaplan's bets are all very precise, something this original question was not. Not wishing to be too padantic I would also point out that electric kWh price has risen this year but as all good ads used to say, the price may go up and/or down.

Hi @epsilonGreedy Further to your original question. I think price of the kWh is heading higher. Over the long term prices will rise because humans are generally greedy. Its not rocket science.

Hi @ASHP-user There are many ways to set up the controls.... Main hall stat: In my opinion @JohnMo is right, that setting the stat higher is the way to go but only if every other emitter has its own temperature controller. ( you have experienced colder rooms already but if you turn it up without radiator TVRs those rooms could get too hot.) Definetly do not disconnect the stat. All my other questions @JohnMo just asked...

First the carrot...

Hi @-crashd Not a stupid Idea.👍 In my humble opinion: Decide the size and makeup of the finished building. Work out the thermal resistance of the finished building through all the types of wall floor and roof in the building (Don't panic there's help about to guide you). Decide what the lowest outside temperature you want the ASHP to work against and this will give you one part of the heating requirement. Decide how you are going to refresh the air in the building and use calculations to work out the heat loss. Use the same outside temperature that you use for heating to calculate the heat loss through replacement air to the building ( a MVHR system can save you 80%- 90% of the heat loss which is a big amount of energy!) This will give you another part of the heating requirement. Add to this the water heating requirement and you have the size of the output you require from an ASHP. (after this I added 25% for the reality of not everything being perfect) These calculations will give you the whole house heating need depending on the outside temperature. Radiator and UFH pipe calculations: Split the heating into areas or rooms depending on the design. Identify how much heat the under floor heating (UFH) or radiator (often referred to as emitters) needs to give off in the individual areas then use Delta T30 calculations to work out how much pipe you need for under floor heating and how big you need radiators. (Delta T30 on radiators is the information radiator manufactures supply to say how much heat you will get off one of their radiators if you use lower temperature water like when using an ASHP. A boiler would typically use Delta T50 information.) So in summary because your going to use lower temperature water, the radiators need to be bigger to supply the same amount of heat as a smaller radiator using higher temperature water. You now know what you need, apart from hot water tank size, a buffer tank, manifolds for UFH, and controls. The next thing is siting the ASHP outside and the siting of tanks and manifolds inside. If you look at the installation instructions of an ASHP you will see the site requirements. If you read the Planning Permission requirements you will see where you can install an ASHP. When you decide the position you can then consider the connections required: one flow and one return pipe usually 28mm. Electric power supply Temperature sensor cable between buffer tank and ASHP Temperature sensor cable between hot water tank and ASHP Communication cable between control system in building somewhere and the ASHP outside A way to deal with the condensation water produced by the ASHP Anything else I have forgotten which I'm sure someone will point out. The pipes between the ASHP and the hot water tank and or buffer tank will need to be 28mm flow and return. Main thing is to work out where you would put the ASHP and where the pipe would have to connect to, choose the route and prepare the hole through the thermal envelope of the building (outside wall in your case, I would guess) making an opening that will take two 100mm diameter pipes (this is to allow 28mm pipes with insulation). Fill the holes with insulation until required. Don't forget holes for the cables... Check you will have enough power supply. Ours is only a small one. The ASHP will require its own fuse which, depending, will need to be an MCB, RCB or RCBO. See ASHP instructions. The electric supply cable will have a bigger cross sectional area than you expect, and that will be because the voltage must not drop too much. See ASHP instructions. The temperature sensor cables and the control cables need to be long enough to reach between the ASHP and tanks. Condensation is not a big issue, but you don't want to end up with puddles! Our is on the flat roof to collected by the gutter. I would suggest the following when considering the installation: The shorter the length of pipework from the ASHP to the inside of the thermal envelope the better the COP. The greater the insulation to the external pipework the better the COP. The shorter the pipework form the ASHP to the tank/tanks the better the COP. The lower the set temperature for heating and hot water the better the COP. The greater the insulation to the 28mm pipework inside the building the better the COP. Ensure any hot water tanks or buffer tanks are inside the thermal envelope to ensure the best COP. Good luck M

This is very close to what we are doing and our results. We are 24/7 set back 2C at 10.30pm until 6am. ASHP using (altered to our particular site and use requirements) the weather compensation mode. Difficult to split the heat/hotwater energy use so: All ASHP energy use approx 10kWh a day from 5th Jan until today for 100m2 floor. Presently 14C outside with heating automatic setup at 35C Top one heating, bottom one cooling.

My rule was top height below a horizontal line from the ridge (planning regulations I think) and 300mm from the roof sides. Loads: well, we just had 120 mile an hour winds a couple of weeks ago and there all still there, and now I wait for the one foot of snow test....

Leave unconnected until night time. Hence my neighbours thinking Santa was early last year.