Help- Tender costs too high

[Mrs S]

Hi, we’ve just received a couple of tender costs ( out of 6 builders only 2 bid), both have come in quite a bit above our budget ie £150k above. They did mention costs had increased due to Brexit! Our architect was told at the beginning the max we wanted to spend.

We are looking at ways to try and cut costs, but we’ve already had to compromise on the house design to fit in with our local planning.

At the minute we are looking at a main contractor to do our build.

My husband did query if the build was within our budget with the architect prior to it going for planning permission & he said it’s not a problem.

Do we try and find more builders to bid?

Do we go back to the drawing board & attempt another design?

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Any helpful advice would be gratefully appreciated from 2 novice and very frustrated self builders.

119-2018_-_Draft_Warrant_-_REDACTED.pdf

Edited May 26, 2019 by Mrs S
Addition of plans

[newhome]

How much per square metre is your budget and where are you in case someone can recommend a builder they have used. 

[lizzie]

Architect said we could do it for a lot less than our budget ...we ended up going down a route I would not  recommend to anyone and spending far in excess of what had been a healthy budget at the start. We were lucky, we were able to fund it without huge difficulty but it is not what we planned.

 

If money is already tight and you have compromised your house design I would ask yourselves seriously is it going to be worth it, will you end up with something you want at the end of it all.....and it will cost more whatever ‘fixed’ price is agreed with a builder, if they price too low there will be ‘extras’.  

[Triassic]

If I were you I’d post a copy of your proposed plans  on here and ask for  comments on the plans, specifically, ways of saving money.

[Mrs S]

New home- we are in NE Scotland, and our budget is £1300 per square metre.

lizzie- thanks for your advice, we aren’t prepared to spend more, as we know we won’t recoup our money when we come to sell it - that’s including the price of the plot. 

[jack]

1 hour ago, Mrs S said:

New home- we are in NE Scotland, and our budget is £1300 per square metre.

lizzie- thanks for your advice, we aren’t prepared to spend more, as we know we won’t recoup our money when we come to sell it - that’s including the price of the plot. 

 

Sorry, are you saying £1300 per SQM including the plot, using a main contractor? I know land in Scotland is relatively cheap, but that seems like an extremely aggressive price 

 

You say it's £150k above what you were hoping for, but it makes a massive difference whether you were hoping to build for £500k or £150k.

[Bitpipe]

We had a similar experience  - took design to a QS and were shocked when it was 30% over budget.

 

Architect shrugged his shoulders and said ' doesn't matter, prices here are rising' not making the connection that we didn't have the funds to commit. 

 

We had the option of radically scaling back the plans but that would have meant another go though planning on top of the 3 rounds previously.

 

Instead, we took control of the build and project managed it ourselves (with zero prior experience), enabling us to stick to the original budget more or less.

 

Remember that a main contractor will need to make a margin or overhead  on the build, which is fair as this is their business, you will not.

 

You will also benefit directly from getting the best possible price for materials and services and any value engineering you decide to implement.

 

Finally, if the budget is limited, you can focus on the fabric and upgrade the finishes (e.g. kitchen) at a later date when funds are healthier.

[nod]

I think the main problem is the shear volume of work available of the last few years With no signs of things slowing down 

 

Im not quoting for anymore work till after Christmas I’m struggling for reliable labour

 

Get the two that have quoted to itemise there quotes ie labour and materials You may find that you can save on the materials 

The Labour is Something you have to live with for the moment 

 

The guy that mentioned Brexit is an idiot

I’ve been running a building business for 35 years and it hasn’t made any difference to me  

[nod]

9 hours ago, lizzie said:

Architect said we could do it for a lot less than our budget ...we ended up going down a route I would not  recommend to anyone and spending far in excess of what had been a healthy budget at the start. We were lucky, we were able to fund it without huge difficulty but it is not what we planned.

 

If money is already tight and you have compromised your house design I would ask yourselves seriously is it going to be worth it, will you end up with something you want at the end of it all.....and it will cost more whatever ‘fixed’ price is agreed with a builder, if they price too low there will be ‘extras’.  

Spoken like a building contractor Lizzie 

I wish people would realise even with a fixed price There are always some unforeseen  extras  

A healthy contingency 

10% of spend 

[recoveringbuilder]

We put ours out to tender with a local firm I’d met at the Homebuilding show , he had assured me he could make our kit cheaper than the TF companies 

when the quote came back he was more expensive and was overall £100k more than we had to spend so it was a non starter, we sat and went over the quote and quickly realised we could source the materials a lot cheaper than he was quoting so he was obviously having a good markup on materials.

we decided then we would get another builder to quote on labour only and we would source all materials, it wasn’t without it’s problems but in the end we brought it in on budget.

[ProDave]

3 hours ago, Mrs S said:

New home- we are in NE Scotland, and our budget is £1300 per square metre.

lizzie- thanks for your advice, we aren’t prepared to spend more, as we know we won’t recoup our money when we come to sell it - that’s including the price of the plot. 

Not far from me then?

 

I am aiming for £1000 per square metre and should just about achieve that, but I only employed a builder to build the very basic shell. Everything since then I have done myself.

 

If you are looking for a turnkey project where someone builds a house ready to move into, there is no way you will do it for £1300 per square metre, not even up here in the north of Scotland.

 

Sorry.

 

The only way you will get close is to manage the project yourself starting with getting someone to erect the very basic shell.  Then work from there, and do anything that you are capable of yourself.

 

[Alexphd1]

We are coming in at well under £1k with all costs Inc land purchase grid connection in NE Scotland  but where very lucky with land purchase (bankruptcy auction with no local advertising just a billboard on ground). We have done 95% of work ourselves over 3 years to a high spec. If we went down a main contractor route and bought everything from local build/plumb merchant I think we would be around £2k job finished. Also lucky to split a lot of costs with other build next door.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Alexphd1

[newhome]

4 hours ago, Mrs S said:

New home- we are in NE Scotland, and our budget is £1300 per square metre.

lizzie- thanks for your advice, we aren’t prepared to spend more, as we know we won’t recoup our money when we come to sell it - that’s including the price of the plot. 

 

As others have said £1300 is pretty impossible unless you do substantial amounts yourself. Heaven knows what your architect is thinking of! I assume that the £1300 is for the build cost only and doesn’t include the land because that would be highly unrealistic. Size matters too. If your house is 150 m2 then your quote is £1000 m2 over budget. If it’s 300 m2 then it’s £500 m2 over. As others have said realistically you are looking at closer to £2000 m2 for a turnkey project excluding the land and £1000 m2 if you do significant amounts yourself. 

 

@Christine Walker what did you end up paying per square metre in the end? 

 

Some of our NE members (Aberdeen?) may be able to advise where else to get quotes from but realistically you are going to have to be much more hands on to get even close to your budget. 

 

As someone else said if you post the plans there may be areas where the design can be altered slightly to bring the build cost down. Architects don’t always have that at the forefront of their minds unfortunately. 

 

[recoveringbuilder]

@newhomewe will end up once the drive is done at £1000m2 but this is not including the plot which we were lucky to get for very little being part of the land belonging the cottage, we could have come in at less if I had not insisted on an expensive kitchen and if we hadn’t gone with the pellet stove but we wanted these things, we could also have cut costs on lighting but decided it may as well be done at the time of building rather than go back to it somewhere down the line 

[Mrs S]

2 hours ago, jack said:

 

Sorry, are you saying £1300 per SQM including the plot, using a main contractor? I know land in Scotland is relatively cheap, but that seems like an extremely aggressive price 

 

You say it's £150k above what you were hoping for, but it makes a massive difference whether you were hoping to build for £500k or £150k.

Sorry Jack,  this is not including the price we paid for the plot.

Our budget for the build is £350k, which isn’t a large amount, but at the same time it’s not a small amount.

 

[Mrs S]

Thanks New Home,  but as my husband works away from home, doing it ourselves is not a possibility.

We are going to split the jobs up, as opposed to having one contractor and try and source what we can ourselves, as looking at the quotes we know we can get some of the products cheaper. We have gone back to the drawing board and changed quite a lot of the external design that our architect had put in- ie slate tiles instead of a zinc roof!

The interior is not high spec in any way, as we believe our money is better spent on the insulation & Windows- especially as it’s directly on the coast.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Mrs S

[Declan52]

The easiest solution is to make your house smaller. But then you get to the point of is it even worth doing if it can only be X sqm. 

You say your husband works away from home so how often does he get home. As in if you decide to manage the job yourself how much help will he realistically be able to give you. Skype and similar apps can help with contact and him being able to see things but it's not the same as actually standing in the build and thinking about things.It's a hard job to do on your own so you will need help. 

Post your plans and we will all have a look at things that could save you enough money.

[selfbuildaberdeen]

48 minutes ago, Mrs S said:

Thanks New Home,  but as my husband works away from home, doing it ourselves is not a possibility.

We are going to split the jobs up, as opposed to having one contractor and try and source what we can ourselves, as looking at the quotes we know we can get some of the products cheaper. We have gone back to the drawing board and changed quite a lot of the external design that our architect had put in- ie slate tiles instead of a zinc roof!

The interior is not high spec in any way, as we believe our money is better spent on the insulation & Windows- especially as it’s directly on the coast.

Hello!

 

My husband also works away from home and I work full time,

I have a feeling we may end up in the same position as yourself but have always intended to do the internal fit out ourselves in order to try and save some precious pennies!

[nod]

1 hour ago, Alexphd1 said:

We are coming in at well under £1k with all costs Inc land purchase grid connection in NE Scotland  but where very lucky with land purchase (bankruptcy auction with no local advertising just a billboard on ground). We have done 95% of work ourselves over 3 years to a high spec. If we went down a main contractor route and bought everything from local build/plumb merchant I think we would be around £2k job finished. Also lucky to split a lot of costs with other build next door.

Wow!

 

i thought we had done well at 850 per sq metre 

If we included the land It would double 

[Bitpipe]

45 minutes ago, Mrs S said:

Thanks New Home,  but as my husband works away from home, doing it ourselves is not a possibility.

We are going to split the jobs up, as opposed to having one contractor and try and source what we can ourselves, as looking at the quotes we know we can get some of the products cheaper. We have gone back to the drawing board and changed quite a lot of the external design that our architect had put in- ie slate tiles instead of a zinc roof!

The interior is not high spec in any way, as we believe our money is better spent on the insulation & Windows- especially as it’s directly on the coast.

 

Project managing a build usually means doing planning / resourcing work in the evenings, chasing people (suppliers & trades) during the day and being able to visit the site to keep an eye on progress each day if possible. Also being available (in person / phone) at short notice to make a quick decision if needs be.

 

You don't need to pick up as much as a brush if you don't want to, but small jobs such as tidying up etc will save time & money and help you keep an eye on whats going on - which is key to success. Leaving trades unattended for days at a time is a guarantee that you will not get things the way you want and at worst will mean shoddy work and cut corners.

 

Some things like MVHR are DIYable (and are something of a rite of passage for the self builder). Decorating is another job that you can do if you have the time.

 

If you really can only entertain a fully managed, completely hands off build then you need to be prepared to pay a significant premium for that.

 

The more 'management' responsibility you can take on, the more you can control the cost, but you need to sacrifice your time to do so.

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I used contractors for the ground works, plus a timber frame supplier who provided a complete package of foundations, frame, insulation and guaranteed passive house airtightness.  I then employed sub-contractors directly for things like plaster boarding and skimming, wiring, etc, and I did all the plumbing, heating system, some of the labouring for the electrical installation, fitting the MVHR system, doing all the internal joinery in oak, fitting out the kitchen, utility room, bathrooms, WC etc, laying the flooring and doing a fair bit of the outdoor work myself to try and save money.  I reckon I worked for maybe a pound an hour.....

 

Our 130m² build came in at £1380/m², excluding the cost of the land.  If we'd employed someone to do everything then the cost would have been well over £2000/m².

[newhome]

How are you planning to build your house? Timber frame? ICF? If it's timber frame does your TF company not do a supply and fit option with you sourcing other trades to do the finishing off? You might be able to source a different TF supplier to supply the kit for less. I know @ultramods who is up your way looked at a few different companies, and I believe he sourced his windows separately as the TF company price was much greater for those. So there are some ways in which you can look to bring the cost down but we will need more details of what you are hoping to build etc to be able to help much more with that. 

 

As you've seen above @Christine Walker brought her build in at £1000 m2 which is very good going but they have the benefit of it being their third self build plus they were pretty hands on especially in terms of the management of the build. Christine has a blog so might be worth having a read of that. 

 

 

[nod]

17 minutes ago, newhome said:

How are you planning to build your house? Timber frame? ICF? If it's timber frame does your TF company not do a supply and fit option with you sourcing other trades to do the finishing off? You might be able to source a different TF supplier to supply the kit for less. I know @ultramods who is up your way looked at a few different companies, and I believe he sourced his windows separately as the TF company price was much greater for those. So there are some ways in which you can look to bring the cost down but we will need more details of what you are hoping to build etc to be able to help much more with that. 

 

As you've seen above @Christine Walker brought her build in at £1000 m2 which is very good going but they have the benefit of it being their third self build plus they were pretty hands on especially in terms of the management of the build. Christine has a blog so might be worth having a read of that. 

 

 

Though it is worth pointing 

While TF is Quicker and easier 

They are mire expensive than traditional  

[Mrs S]

9 minutes ago, nod said:

Though it is worth pointing 

While TF is Quicker and easier 

They are mire expensive than traditional  

Thanks, we had thought going down the TF route as it’s quicker, but our plot isn’t accessible to cranes or bigger lorries unfortunately.

[Mrs S]

59 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Project managing a build usually means doing planning / resourcing work in the evenings, chasing people (suppliers & trades) during the day and being able to visit the site to keep an eye on progress each day if possible. Also being available (in person / phone) at short notice to make a quick decision if needs be.

 

You don't need to pick up as much as a brush if you don't want to, but small jobs such as tidying up etc will save time & money and help you keep an eye on whats going on - which is key to success. Leaving trades unattended for days at a time is a guarantee that you will not get things the way you want and at worst will mean shoddy work and cut corners.

 

Some things like MVHR are DIYable (and are something of a rite of passage for the self builder). Decorating is another job that you can do if you have the time.

 

If you really can only entertain a fully managed, completely hands off build then you need to be prepared to pay a significant premium for that.

 

The more 'management' responsibility you can take on, the more you can control the cost, but you need to sacrifice your time to do so.

 

 

We’ll be living on the site, so I’ll be able to keep a good eye on the builders. I will do what PM I can, along with the occasional assistance from our architect. I’m no stranger to getting my hands dirty or a paint brush ?