Sorting out a cock-up in Durisol.

[ToughButterCup]

I've been avoiding this for about 2 years. Admitting the cock-up, that is. 

 

There's nowt for it now, it's long past the time to do something about it. Here's a description of the problem and a suggested strategy for sorting it out.

 

Look at this mess.

 

@TerryE warned me years ago -  change your mind just in time, not just too late. Trick is, knowing when ' too late ' is.

 

We got the position of the loo window wrong. The shower head would be just next to the window.  Stoopid or wot?

Nay borra Jimmie , said the Durisol guy, You can move the window - easy.

Out with the stone saw, whisked the front of the Durisol blocks off before I could say 

' FFS stop will ya? '

 

Cue gritted teeth, rictus grin, self control and murder in my heart. And lots of displacement activity.

Two whole years later, I've cooked up enough courage to repair it.

Question is how?

 

First, make yourself a work platform

 and a closer look at the mess.....

 

 

The concrete hasn't been compromised. All that's needed then is a quick clear up, and a think.

Cue another sleepless night.....

 

What do you think I should do? 

 

[Redoctober]

Ian - good on you for facing up to what has no doubt been your "elephant in the room" - I'm sure the collective will come good with suitable suggestions but perhaps more info is required. It might just be me but I can't see what it is you are trying / wanting to achieve. 

Just an observation that's all. ?

[ProDave]

For a start, is that the inside or the outside of the window opening we are looking at?

 

If outside? what will be the wall finish? i.e what are you hoping to achieve with the repair?

 

Are you wanting to put it back "pre sawing" or are you still needing to actually move the window opening over?

[ToughButterCup]

Yes, @Redoctober, I'm soooo close to the issue and, truth to be told,  annoyed still. In my post above, I  made too many assumptions of the reader.

 

The (no doubt good) intention of the Dursiol guy  was to move the window 300mm to one side to allow more wall space inside for the shower. I stopped him mid-job (after he'd cut the insulation off the front of the blocks). He hadn't had time to cut through the concrete.  

 

The end in mind is to re-instate (repair) the Durisol - as far as that's possible - in the current position. Because the concrete is still intact, all that's needed is for me to replace the front bit of the Durisol blocks. The question is  - how?

 

I suspect the answer is KISS. But I have often been told I over-engineer stuff. So to help the KISS process, I thought I'd ask here before inventing some unnecessarily weird and wonderful way of repairing the fronts of the blocks.

 

[Lesgrandepotato]

Maybe I’m being thick here but can’t it just be blocked up with lightweight blocks? Cut to suit and fed in. It’s all getting rendered right?

[Lesgrandepotato]

Zoom in on this one, we missed lining up this window with the one above but about 100mm the cheeks were made up in cut block. You can see them peeping behind the expanding metal on the left side 

[ToughButterCup]

10 hours ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

[...]

but can’t it just be blocked up with lightweight blocks? Cut to suit and fed in. It’s all getting rendered right?

 

Now there's a thought...... Yes, it's getting rendered.

[epsilonGreedy]

11 hours ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

Maybe I’m being thick here but can’t it just be blocked up with lightweight blocks? Cut to suit and fed in. It’s all getting rendered right?

 

 

My thinking too, though I reckon some masonry ties are required. Lightweight blocks can be shaped. Or given that the structural element of the durisol wall is intact how about boxing it off with a sheet of something?

 

Before proceeding I would run an experiment to test how adhesive a mortar/durisol bond is given the three different materials exposed.

 

Long term is there a concern about different thermal expansion causing hairline a crack in the render?

[Big Neil]

What about bastardising some durisol blocks and keeping them in place with something like helical ties

[Russell griffiths]

Chisel all the odd bits off to make nice and square but in a toothed pattern 

get a bunch of stainless rods that come in a crack stitching kit

cut off cuts off durisol to fit in toothed pattern you have made

drill and insert stainless rods in appropriate places using epoxy resin

stick durisol in place with same epoxy resin, smear more resin on and add second chunk of durisol 

drill next hole and add another bit of stainless rod

continue up to the top

you could put a piece of timber up as a former to keep a nice vertical window jamb. 

[ToughButterCup]

4 minutes ago, Big Neil said:

What about bastardising some durisol blocks [...]

 

That was my first thought..... 

1 minute ago, Russell griffiths said:

Chisel all the odd bits off to make nice and square 

[...]

you could put a piece of timber up as a former to keep a nice vertical window jamb. 

 

And this is my first job for today :  photos by lunchtime.  Durisol readily sticks to itself when glued: I tried yesterday. The blocks have  a very rough surface, so glue has lots to hold on to.

 

Piccies to follow soon. (Just after the rain arrives up here)

[Lesgrandepotato]

18 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

That was my first thought..... 

 

And this is my first job for today :  photos by lunchtime.  Durisol readily sticks to itself when glued: I tried yesterday. The blocks have  a very rough surface, so glue has lots to hold on to.

 

Piccies to follow soon. (Just after the rain arrives up here)

Photos by lunchtime? You’ll have it sorted by lunchtime. 

Crack on with it man! 

[joe90]

I have used these for “adding “brick or block and they work well.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sabrefix-screw-ties-25-pack/31633?tc=SB6&ds_kid=92700034760608690&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1249407&gclid=CjwKCAjw_MnmBRAoEiwAPRRWW5_6I-Gkz8WfYaojmfhfciuxepClvAzz1jHTamVqofi_t7nnTBgshxoCxh0QAvD_BwE

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

[....] You’ll have it sorted by lunchtime [...]

 

You assume some expertise .... hold on a minute, I do know my way around a Durisol block now ?

 

Right, the story so far today:

 

In order to frame out the gap, I needed to use some left over 3 by 2 (tanalised) rather than smaller section wood  because I had to drill into the concrete lattice. I made sure the Thunderbolts were drilled and fixed into the middle of some exposed concrete. The wood pieces are joined with structural timber screws.

 

I'll need to make up a corner-piece to carry final covering.

 

What should that be? OSB3, Marine ply, cement board? 

[Russell griffiths]

I’m confused

what is that timber for ?

are you not bringing the wall out to the same distance as the block work on that inner skin. 

[ToughButterCup]

Yes. Almost. The timber is a framework for the the boarding that will be the outer skin. Inside the boarding I'll put some PIR.

[Russell griffiths]

So what is the boarding for ?

i thought you where going to cut bits of durisol and key it all in. 

Are you saying you are going to make an outer skin of some sort of board with insulation on the inside.   

[Lesgrandepotato]

1 hour ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

You assume some expertise .... hold on a minute, I do know my way around a Durisol block now ?

 

Right, the story so far today:

 

In order to frame out the gap, I needed to use some left over 3 by 2 (tanalised) rather than smaller section wood  because I had to drill into the concrete lattice. I made sure the Thunderbolts were drilled and fixed into the middle of some exposed concrete. The wood pieces are joined with structural timber screws.

 

I'll need to make up a corner-piece to carry final covering.

 

What should that be? OSB3, Marine ply, cement board? 

Looking good! 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

So what is the boarding for ?

i thought you where going to cut bits of durisol and key it all in. 

Are you saying you are going to make an outer skin of some sort of board with insulation on the inside.   

 

Yes. 

Durisol is easily shaped and trimmed with any woodworking tool. But, cut faces  shatter easily. A simple sheet of Durisol is quite weak. Durisol gets its strength from the block form. All of the boarding will be covered with render, followed by Clober Permoforte and then  wood cladding.

 

I'm thinking cement board covering the framework (under the felt and cladding)  would do, maybe mounted on an undersheet of OSB?

[Gone West]

14 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

I'm thinking cement board covering the framework (under the felt and cladding)  would do, maybe mounted on an undersheet of OSB?

Could you use a single sheet of cement particle board such as http://www.euroform.co.uk/versapanel-cement-bonded-particle-board/

[Russell griffiths]

Oh ok, you confused me with the word render, so what you really have is timber cladding, the render is actually just a parge coat

i thought you where going to render over a board, I had visions of it cracking like a mo fo. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Russell griffiths

[Carrerahill]

3 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

I'll need to make up a corner-piece to carry final covering.

 

What should that be? OSB3, Marine ply, cement board? 

 

Hang on a minute, am I missing something here, maybe... but if it was me, I would screw a form to the front and side of the reveal just over 3/4 of the way up the "mess", batten it up with 2x4 or something, you could clamp it etc.  then pour in concrete. Leave the forms for 24 hours, remove and then you could fill the remaining bit by packing in concrete or use some commons. 

 

I am sure there are reasons, but I would prefer to see this more permanent that bits of OSB and board. 

[ToughButterCup]

21 hours ago, Carrerahill said:

 

Hang on a minute, am I missing something here, maybe... but if it was me, I would screw a form to the front and side of the reveal just over 3/4 of the way up the "mess", batten it up with 2x4 or something, you could clamp it etc.  then pour in concrete..... 

Ahhhh, now I see. 

The concrete hasn't been removed. Only the PIR. The wooden form work will merely hold the replacement PIR. 

A bit of concreting will be needed to make up the wall at the bottom of the window. But not much.